I`m gonna quit art school!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Page 3

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  1. #61
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    Yeah, I know what you mean. Art isn't dead. Though, you said that you put alot of emotion into the picture with the temple, but did you not put more emotion into the 2nd? Think about it, you were really pissed when you made the 2nd one. I cannot judge the critics that are in your group. I mean, theres some people who know abstract art or nonobjective art, and theres other people who think if they don't understand it, its good. You know what I mean? But, thats why I try not to take people critques too literally. Remember, their people too, their opinions are just as valid as yours is. Do not let them decide your future.

    In this day and age in art, most people think that stupid shit is art. Very well rendered art isn't apprecated by normal folks anymore. Mainly just by artists. Anyone can see a picture of a river, or a famous person, or the Washington monument in a photograph. Its the closet thing to being there. So why care about a silly artist's drawing of a river, or a famous person, or the Washing monument? We can all answer that because we know the skill, effort and emotion put into that picture. Other people don't see that and their so damn into themselves that they don't take the time to reconise, to look at their bag of Cheetos and think "Wow, someone drew that."

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  3. #62
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    Man, LAN server was on the fritz today so the lambasting had to wait until it came on recently. Though actually I don't think I will lambaste that much. The point I made was incomplete and leaves out the other half, which would be what Lono is puching for. But here is the whole thing in a nutshell, though I am sure I will leave something out once again.

    There are no absolutes with opinion, only relative absolutes based on majority rules. These can be seen from the popularity of a certain musical style, to the success of a certain movie, to what people see as good art. Whatever you do this aspect cannot be ignored. Morals are the strongest example of this. Morals are an opinion as to how people should act and what is right and wrong. There are a general set of morals that are accepted by most people, and this dictates societal behaviour. Murder is wrong in pretty much any place you go, and this is because of majority opinion. Therefore relative absolutes do exist, they ARE important, and they can and do overpower personal opinion frequently. Murderers go to jail. Their personal opinion may be that they are in the right, but ultimately it is the majority opinion that decides. (If you disagree with me on this, then I have nothing to say to you)

    That being said, the other half which I failed to mention is Lono's standpoint; that personal opinion is important. Of course this is true, because we all have our personal opinions and most of use hold to them quite strongly. I should know as I am stubborn as a mule until I am proven definitively wrong. However, this is just half the story, as majority opinion infringes on personal opinion. There are many cases of this happeneing throughout history, such as Martin Luther, for one. He had an opinion, and the majority didn't hold to it. He did manage to convert others to his opinion, but the majority remained, and that's why we have Catholic and Protestant today, instead of just Catholic or just Protestant (btw, nobody start discussing this as I use it only as an example and do not intend to start religious flame wars). So while personal opinion can be powerful and become a (relative) majority opinion, majority opinion is powerful as well. Two halves of one whole, and both have to be taken into account.

    Also I would like to point out that hard facts will ALWAYS invalidate an opinion, no matter how many people believe it. For this reason it is a bit faulty to use the example of people believing that the earth was flat as a counter argument to the majority opinion argument. They were factually wrong, so there was no room for opinion. Opinion can only be valid when it is about something that has at least partial room for personal belief, and is not entirely mapped out by fact already. That is why we cannot have opinions about where Hydrogen should be on the periodic table, but we can have an opinion about what clothing is the most fashionable.

    And a response to Jaku's quote:

    And i don´t agree with this.
    They´re paid because they´re able to do what they´re asked to do (excuse my english): visualize others ideas clear and quick and you´re not able to do this, as i´m not able to do.
    Um...Doesn't that make them better then? They have the skill to do what I can't which makes them better at art than me. If you see it as blakc and white you can say me = bad, them = good. While its not that simple, you HAVE to agree that they are better than me by majority standards. Standards that are based on facts, facts like that they can draw anatomy more accurately, and render more realistically. These facts help to support the opinion that they are better than me. So in end effect, you are wrong. And don't say that you like my art better than Feng's or Ryan Church's or C Mullinss or Anry's or any other famous pro artist's out there.

    *DISCLAIMER* I am sure I missed something in there, that was important, but I guess people will pick up on that sonner or later and I can get to explain myself on the vormentioned missed points. I would also lik eto say that ultimately whether you believe what I wrote or not is also a matter of opinion. haha, irony at work all around us!

    Furthermore, I would like to say that I LOVE these sorts of discussion. Free will, which this ties into, is a very cool subject, and I love discussing it at any time. If any of you see me on IRC, feel free to bring it up so we can have a little debate.


    Es fließt durch meine Venen, Es schläft in meinen Tränen
    Es läuft mir aus den Ohren, Herz und Nieren sind Motoren

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  4. #63
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    after robing a bank.
    I'm not sure this is entirely illegal. In fact I think it falls under the heading "performance art" or at least something akin to Christo's work.

    But if, as you stated earlier, "art is dead" then I think "robing a bank" in the name of art would be moot... But that's just me.

    These grapes taste like Fresno! -- Steinbeck
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  5. #64
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    Originally posted by dfacto
    Free will, which this ties into, is a very cool subject, and I love discussing it at any time. If any of you see me on IRC, feel free to bring it up so we can have a little debate.
    so from your posts, i would say that you are against free will? your arguments are all over the place. you say you are so stubborn to believe in what you personally believe in, until you are factually proven wrong... and you also say that whatever the majority thinks makes it true?

    The internet movie database reports Titanic as being the highest grossing movies at the US box office of all time. that might be a little outdated, or maybe not... but do you now agree that that was the greatest movie ever? it even won all those awards, but i'll tell you this, that movie fucking sucked. am i wrong?

    and let me say, if i ever was given a mercedes, i'd sell that shit, and buy a toyota or something.

    Last edited by Giottoface; March 6th, 2004 at 03:22 PM.
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  6. #65
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    oh common you'd cruse with it first

    draw, draw, erase, repeat
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  7. #66
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    so from your posts, i would say that you are against free will? your arguments are all over the place. you say you are so stubborn to believe in what you personally believe in, until you are factually proven wrong... and you also say that whatever the majority thinks makes it true?

    The internet movie database reports Titanic as being the highest grossing movies at the US box office of all time. that might be a little outdated, or maybe not... but do you now agree that that was the greatest movie ever? it even won all those awards, but i'll tell you this, that movie fucking sucked. am i wrong?

    and let me say, if i ever was given a mercedes, i'd sell that shit, and buy a toyota or something.
    See, Giotto, you make the mistake I make a lot. You over generalize. Just because I think that majority opinion can overpower personal opinion, doesn' mean that I am against free will. I simply ealize that it does not always present itself as an opportunity, or that it can be curtailed by other things, like...you guessed it..majority opinion!

    I also never said that what the majority thinks makes it true. It is only relatively true based on the strength in numbers theory. However this does not apply to cases where a fact is established, such as Titanic. It has been scientifically proven that Titanic sucks ass, therfore the majority could not have been right!:p

    ok, ok, just a joke, but the reason TItanic got so much cash was not because it was a good movie. It was because leonardo di caprio fangirls flocked to the movie 6 times over to see it and made it a huge winner. It got the academy awards because it made so much cash and because the majority opinion (IE, the little girls who saw it) would have killed everyone in the academy if it hadn't won. But those little girls who raved and screamed and made it a success were relatively right weren't they. They believed it was a good film and they are right in their own way, just like I am correct (for myself at least) in all of my opinions. That is also why I am all over the place on the topic. Its hard, if not impossible to pin down, and the topic varies drastically based on what the specifics are.

    You wanna take a toyota,you do that. But I'll take the mclaren. (secret option #3)


    Es fließt durch meine Venen, Es schläft in meinen Tränen
    Es läuft mir aus den Ohren, Herz und Nieren sind Motoren

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  8. #67
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    Ok, well now you are jsut making up statistics to support an argument that I am not even sure of. I know plenty of people who saw Titanic, and liked it. They were not leo fangirls, and even if they were, their opinions aren't valid just becasue you say so?

    Why did Dances with wolves win so many oscars then? Kevin Costner fanboys? I personally thought that movie sucked. But the majority would apparently say otherwise. So that means... its... relatively true? based on the strength in numbers theory? or something?

    and epic is right, i would cruise with my mercedes first.

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  9. #68
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    That teacher was a moron. Don't worry about wha is said by an "art teacher". art cannot be taught. Art is only learned. Nobody judges art. Art is what that artist makes, no what the viewer sees.

    I have great faith in fools. My friends call it self confidence.
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  10. #69
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    It was said before in this thread I think but Mabey the teacher knew more than what most of you are saying.

    I'm sure the teacher realized that your first piece was technically a very nice piece. She probably just wanted to see you branch into a new direction. It doesnt hurt to try new things, especially if it makes your client (teacher) happy. I'd be willing to bet that she told you these things to actually get an emotion out of you. The emotion of anger and tension.

    A lot of learning in school is not only doing the assignments but figuring out why they were assigned...

    oh yeah, I liked both Titanic and Dances With Wolves...

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  11. #70
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    "Art is only learned. Nobody judges art. Art is what that artist makes, no what the viewer sees."

    Eh...art can be taught. Why do you think people go to "art schools"?

    And art is what the viewer sees. If the viewer sees art, then its art.

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  12. #71
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    I find it very interesting that a "banned" user has his thread continually at the top of the list due to people still commenting lol. Not that I could care, just pointing it out :p

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