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    Very good at science, getting better in art... but no self-confidence

    Hi,

    I wanted to address a very personal matter. I am an advanced student in science and I've also been drawing for some time. Especially now, the pleasure of drawing is rocketing because I am realizing that I am (to some extent) capable of creating figures of my own. Over the past two weeks, I've also been drawing in the bus. In my last threads people strongly recommended to do life drawing (in my environment) and to take life drawing classes.

    What does this tell me? I have always been very diligent in my science studies and my results are actually excellent. But this has always been taking up very, very much time. Drawing has been occasional. Now, all I do in my spare time is drawing and I am beginning to sense that I have at least some aptitude for that, or, if nothing else, It gives me some pleasure.

    I have always been a nerdy person because I focussed on science very much. Now, I will definitely give art more room (also including life drawing at the university campus, in the park, mall, ...), but all in all, it seems I am becoming even more of a nerd.

    Even with my very good success in science, I have never felt or been a confident person. I have always doubts about everything, I cannot approach women at all (and at times, this really hurts), I haven't had but one girlfriend in my life, and this was long ago and very short-lived.

    I just don't know what this is. I would like to say out loud: Look, I'm good at my science studies, I am also a good programmer (it has always been a hobby), well-read, eloquent (English is not my first language and look how well I can express myself) and now, I am getting better and better in art. Sounds like an interesting person, eh?

    But somehow, I cannot convince myself that I am interesting, or good, or on the right track, or whatever. When I am walking down the street I don't feel confident. I often have doubts, I often feel I've missed some chance, I've made wrong decisions, etc. When I like a girl I am timid, don't know what to say, incapable of being at ease, building up a connection. When I'm sitting there at home and drawing or working on science, I often do feel good. But when I'm outside, it's different.

    I am afraid I am doing something wrong. On the one hand, a strictly intellectual orientation like mine seems good: science will be my job and the efforts will probably pay off (some day in terms of a doctorate and an interesting job in research, I hope), and now while I am young it's good to learn how to draw because I will benefit from it as a beautiful, relaxing, rewarding occupation for the rest of my life. But still, I don't understand why I cannot like myself for that. I step outside and again I find myself being timid, no confidence, no self-respect, incapable of being bold and brave, incapable of approaching women. All of this sucks and I don't understand what's wrong.

    I'd really like to read your thoughts on this...


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    Do you do any sports? Reading your post it seems a lot of what you do is studying and learning. Which is good, but maybe not so much if it's all you do. So maybe doing some sort of sport will help. It doesn't have to be the most popular sport either (like football). Just something that you can go and do once or twice a week where you run or jump about and get some adrenaline going. Personally I like going snowboarding or climbing once a week if I can, cos then I have something to look forward to, and I always feel good afterwards. It could also give you something you could talk to girls about.

    Hope that helps

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    Find some good quality guys you can hang out with that can help build you up. I have always found that haveing good quality friends reflected in my personality, and helped me be a better person.

    Plus other things, but most of it is personal.

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    I would like to say out loud: Look, I'm good at my science studies, I am also a good programmer (it has always been a hobby), well-read, eloquent (English is not my first language and look how well I can express myself) and now, I am getting better and better in art. Sounds like an interesting person, eh?
    Interesting if you happen to like science, reading and programming, kinda dull if you're into ballet, cookery, 80s thrash metal and plumbing.
    Quote Originally Posted by quaternion View Post
    I often feel I've missed some chance, I've made wrong decisions, etc.
    Yup, you almost certainly have missed some chances and you have made wrong decisions, much the same as everyone else on the planet really..

    You sound like you need to chill a bit, go play pool with your mates, take a walk and feed the birds, go to a park and take some photos or something.

    Oh and stop trying to "meet girls", they can smell desperation at 500m..
    /2p worth

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    a bit over dramatic are we?

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    I agree with what's being said here.

    Just try and balance yourself out, sometimes it's not easy...one half of you will think this and the other half will think that; I've been down that road and...it sucks), and you'll end up conflicting within yourself and possibly fall into depression.

    Try to find ways to put your mind at ease...it really helps in the long run.

    **off topic: Amona...just couldn't help but wonder, how the heck do you remember that screename?

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    lol it's actually pretty easy, only problem is those little symbols

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    You should learn to meditate, in addition to having a balanced lifestyle. Meditation will help reduce your anxiety. it seems like that is the root cause of your problems, you get anxious really fast. Why is this? keep reading.

    Exercising certainly helps: stretching, weight training... as this reduces stress, a source of anxiety.
    Meditation wil also help in this regard. Also, learning to focus on your inner state, while not buying into the BS your mind produces will directly target anxiety. Back away from the stories you are telling yourself and observe them... you'll start to notice these stories, these thoughts, entering your mind immediately the more you practice.

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    Go pick up the book "The Game" by Neil Strauss.

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    Try not to focus on anyone but yourself and your own progress. You got a sketchbook going, make a goal of making it to 15-20 pages on your sketchbook. By then you'll see improvement, and just use that to keep pushing yourself forward. Dont worry about if there's someone better or someone doing it more right, just focus on yourself, and everything else won't matter. Also patience helps.
    "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
    --- Frank Herbert, Dune - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear

    Check out my Sketchbook! Critique and Criticism welcomed.

    or my Artstation

    Or my stream on Twitch! http://www.twitch.tv/wwsketch

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    Quote Originally Posted by quaternion View Post
    I am afraid I am doing something wrong. On the one hand, a strictly intellectual orientation like mine seems good: science will be my job and the efforts will probably pay off (some day in terms of a doctorate and an interesting job in research, I hope), and now while I am young it's good to learn how to draw because I will benefit from it as a beautiful, relaxing, rewarding occupation for the rest of my life. But still, I don't understand why I cannot like myself for that. I step outside and again I find myself being timid, no confidence, no self-respect, incapable of being bold and brave, incapable of approaching women. All of this sucks and I don't understand what's wrong.

    I'd really like to read your thoughts on this...
    I think you should work on your social skills. Interacting with people is a skill just like any other skill. If you don't skate much, you will not feel confident on skates. If you don't talk to people you will not feel confident talking to people. As you talk to people more and figure out which approaches work and which approaches fail, your interactions will be more successful and you will stop feeling so bad about them.

    Approach this logically. You are trying to do something that often has unpredictable results and you are scared of failure. That's fairly natural. But it is a skill, one that you can learn and improve, and if you want to increase your social skill then you'd best start working on it. You will risk unpleasant results but ignoring this has some unpleasant results too -- you may have serious problems communicating with your coworkers in the future or lose out on jobs because you deal poorly with other people.

    You will need many skills in your life apart from art and science. Don't neglect learning them just because they are different from your chosen job.
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    Two words: watch "Hitch"...study it.

    Nothing is "wrong" evreyone feels the same way from time to time - some more than others maybe. But hey - don't worry about it - let things happen - a scientist-artist? Are you kidding me?! They get all the chicks!

    Here's a top-secret passtime - take a sketchbook to a mucis club...sketch musicians and cute girls...they'll line up!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetpack42 View Post
    Go pick up the book "The Game" by Neil Strauss.
    LOL pick up artist u are LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by quaternion View Post
    Hi,

    But somehow, I cannot convince myself that I am interesting, or good, or on the right track, or whatever. When I am walking down the street I don't feel confident. I often have doubts, I often feel I've missed some chance, I've made wrong decisions, etc. When I like a girl I am timid, don't know what to say, incapable of being at ease, building up a connection. When I'm sitting there at home and drawing or working on science, I often do feel good. But when I'm outside, it's different.
    you know what ..threads like this wont help you to better the situation , its a very complex situation youre in and most of the time its that we arent as happy with this situation as we claim to be. In the end you need to be confident in all things you do to feel better. The only thing you can do - and yeah I know not the easy answer you would like to hear ...everybody would like to have it - you can change this only on your own, by simply putting all doubts aside ..its a really personal and conscious decision you have to make and than you have to stick to it ...its a bit like convincing yourself to believe in a lie . Sheer will .

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    is it about getting laid?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffX99 View Post
    - a scientist-artist? Are you kidding me?! They get all the chicks!
    It worked for Richard Feynman.

    Tristan Elwell
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  24. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by quaternion View Post
    Hi,

    I wanted to address a very personal matter. I am an advanced student in science and I've also been drawing for some time. Especially now, the pleasure of drawing is rocketing because I am realizing that I am (to some extent) capable of creating figures of my own. Over the past two weeks, I've also been drawing in the bus. In my last threads people strongly recommended to do life drawing (in my environment) and to take life drawing classes.

    What does this tell me? I have always been very diligent in my science studies and my results are actually excellent. But this has always been taking up very, very much time. Drawing has been occasional. Now, all I do in my spare time is drawing and I am beginning to sense that I have at least some aptitude for that, or, if nothing else, It gives me some pleasure.

    I have always been a nerdy person because I focussed on science very much. Now, I will definitely give art more room (also including life drawing at the university campus, in the park, mall, ...), but all in all, it seems I am becoming even more of a nerd.

    Even with my very good success in science, I have never felt or been a confident person. I have always doubts about everything, I cannot approach women at all (and at times, this really hurts), I haven't had but one girlfriend in my life, and this was long ago and very short-lived.

    I just don't know what this is. I would like to say out loud: Look, I'm good at my science studies, I am also a good programmer (it has always been a hobby), well-read, eloquent (English is not my first language and look how well I can express myself) and now, I am getting better and better in art. Sounds like an interesting person, eh?

    But somehow, I cannot convince myself that I am interesting, or good, or on the right track, or whatever. When I am walking down the street I don't feel confident. I often have doubts, I often feel I've missed some chance, I've made wrong decisions, etc. When I like a girl I am timid, don't know what to say, incapable of being at ease, building up a connection. When I'm sitting there at home and drawing or working on science, I often do feel good. But when I'm outside, it's different.

    I am afraid I am doing something wrong. On the one hand, a strictly intellectual orientation like mine seems good: science will be my job and the efforts will probably pay off (some day in terms of a doctorate and an interesting job in research, I hope), and now while I am young it's good to learn how to draw because I will benefit from it as a beautiful, relaxing, rewarding occupation for the rest of my life. But still, I don't understand why I cannot like myself for that. I step outside and again I find myself being timid, no confidence, no self-respect, incapable of being bold and brave, incapable of approaching women. All of this sucks and I don't understand what's wrong.

    I'd really like to read your thoughts on this...
    There is a name for this condition; what is it called?


    wait it'll come to me...


    Oh yeah right I got it now

    Being an adult human being
    Last edited by dpaint; June 23rd, 2011 at 04:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    It worked for Richard Feynman.
    He always had a couple bongos to slap around. Uh... sorry.

    EDIT: Let me try to salvage this lack-of-coffee post;

    You are an interesting person, but the problem is you're too inwardly focused (and you're also to focused on the "end-game" goal; every girl is a girlfriend, every outing is a life altering event). in any conversation you have 2 cool things to mention; you're an advanced student in science AND you do art. But don't go at it as if you have a checklist of things to say, or that there's a clear cut goal. Be genuinely interested in the person you're talking to.

    For one reason, you really should. People are interesting as hell. The topic of mundane old alcohol last weekend at a friend's wedding led to a discussion with 2 other groomsmen (one a muslim and one a native guy who went back to traditional beliefs) about different takes on its consumption; the muslim was thankful no one from his traditional family was around to see him get sloshed and the native talked about how he was going to go through life with strictly no alcohol. This went on to a discussion of his traditional beliefs, cool mythology stuff etc. As a heinz 57 Canadian I have no real neat belief system so the conversation went nowhere near me as I asked questions and prompted for more info.

    Another reason is that people love to talk about themselves and feel good about themselves. The more interested you are in what people have to say the more at ease and natural they're going to feel. Don't pressure them or ask them for their life's story, but ask questions about what people do for a living, what they like to do. "that must be pretty cool, what's it like" things like that.

    lastly, being interested in others opens yourself up, includes you in the conversation and gets people asking about YOU. THEN you can drop the whole Science-art combo and have some discussion about how what YOU do is pretty cool. Again, don't get to fixated on one person or event. Maybe this girl isn't interested in you, but maybe she talks to her friend, you two get acquainted and develop something. Maybe all of them are taken and none are interested in you, but you've just spent some time with some nice girls, nothing wrong about that. Maybe someone from OUTSIDE the conversation you're having hears something interesting and they join in. the point is you have to like the aimless, interesting process of just talking to people and learning about them. Be as easy going as you can, don't start any obsessive arguments over little things (us nerds tend to do it, it's hard not to I know ) and remember that life is a dance.
    Last edited by Jason Rainville; June 23rd, 2011 at 10:51 AM.

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  27. #21
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    bartend or wait tables. that'll open you up quick

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Rainville View Post
    You are an interesting person, but the problem is you're too inwardly focused (and you're also to focused on the "end-game" goal; every girl is a girlfriend, every outing is a life altering event). in any conversation you have 2 cool things to mention; you're an advanced student in science AND you do art. But don't go at it as if you have a checklist of things to say, or that there's a clear cut goal. Be genuinely interested in the person you're talking to.
    I think it's this.

    Also being interested in a little bit of everything. Every day problems that people struggle with. Some activity that has to do with going outside would probably help too.

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    well, like you I love science (bio-chemistry is my..uh..passion) and art, and i do sometimes wish that either of these subjects get the attention of girls. Art is not like music, if you can play music, you can play it anywhere (esspecially guitar). You look like a proper wierdo if you get out a pencil and paper and start drawing, whereas, if you get out a guitar and start playing "small town girl" by journey, then you're awesome.
    The reason is, art is good when it's finished, but music is good the whole way, plus people can join in. (singing, drumming on the table etc)
    You need to have a confident attitude around girls, if you walk around like you're nervous then people can tell. When you go out, try going with some friends, not only do you feel cool around them, you can go back and talk to them you get rejected. There is nothing worse than rejection without a fall back lol.

    If the problem is that you don't go out all that much, you're going to have to force yourself. Do you live in student residence? Do you have room mates? Go to a party with them, art and science is all well and good, but what is the point if you have no one to share it with? The idea is to mingle with people in a non-"out" environment, once they are used to you being around then it should be cool when you say: "hey let's go to the pub (/bar/party/whatever)".

    Ok and here is the thing, rejection is not the worst thing in the world, if it comes to it you can start with the hottest girl in the room and work your way down the food chain (As stupid as that sounds), if you act like it's all good, other people will too. If you go up to someone and charmingly say: "Hi, im jason (mike, toby, greg, whatever)" it is super uncommon for someone to reply "fuck off", ussually you get: "hi, im [name]. Oh, I've seen you round here, you do science right?" and vwullah! conversation has begun!

    While you're in education, meeting people is easy, once you go off into the big wide world then you can only rely on yourself to get you out of the house.(unless you make some good friends at uni or collage or whatever).
    Last edited by Barefoot; June 23rd, 2011 at 02:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RyNSWOrLD View Post
    You look like a proper wierdo if you get out a pencil and paper and start drawing,
    Excuse me?
    Quote Originally Posted by RyNSWOrLD View Post
    whereas, if you get out a guitar and start playing "small town girl" by journey, then you're awesome.
    There is absolutely nothing awesome about Journey or anything having to do with them.
    I would suggest seriously modifying your social circle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    There is absolutely nothing awesome about Journey or anything having to do with them..
    I believe Elwell has stopped believin'.

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  34. #26
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    Excuse me?
    it is kind of odd to pull out a sketch pad and start drawing some girl across the table, unless you know her it's creepy. And a good drawing takes concentration, so you wont be talking as much and the conversation will carry on without you.
    oh, and I meant when it comes to social events, there are some places where one might prefer to enjoy some conversation with friends over drawing lightsabers.
    There is absolutely nothing awesome about Journey or anything having to do with them.
    I was only using journey as an example. Plus this is a touchy subject for me, I used to like that song untill glee butchered it, now if I hum it, people think I watch glee, an assumption which I cannot allow.
    I would suggest seriously modifying your social circle.
    Just because my friends like journey, doesn't mean I should reject them.
    I believe Elwell has stopped believin'.
    agreed

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    Ahhh, the woes of being 23!

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    It might sound strange but getting drunk and going out, talking to people and dancing about helps you acclimatize to the social scene and you subconsciously develop confidence by using a crutch like that until you don't need it anymore.

    Read some of the books put out by Paul Mckenna on confidence too
    Larger than life

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    I have a major self-confidence problem too. There are a lot of things I'm bad at (social skills and impulse control are probably the most outstanding) and not many things I'm relatively good at. Drawing, writing, and learning about certain sciences are perhaps my best skills, and even then there are a lot of people out there better than me at those things. The thing I want more than anything else in the world is to be a master at something for once, and I've a long way to go before I can get there.
    Everything is better with dinosaurs.

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    If you're so good at science why are you letting your bias get in the way of how you view yourself?
    "Astronomy offers an aesthetic indulgence not duplicated in any other field. This is not an academic or hypothetical attraction and should require no apologies, for the beauty to be found in the skies has been universally appreciated for unrecorded centuries."

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