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  1. #1
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    kshirogane's sketchbok

    Embarrassing enough, I've been illustrating for dA since 2007 using organized frames for people and animals. Since been constantly trying to reform my methods.

    I figured that if all was in proportion,perspective, and pleasing to the eye, the images using anime conventions was irrelevant.

    1-3 done from 2007-2009 with lineart & coloring done in OpenCanvas
    4 and 5 done from 2009 with lineart in Manga Studio and coloring in OpenCanvas.

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    ps. I solely used Manga Studio because of its ability to correct lines.

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  3. #2
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    Honestly I dont see much of a difference.

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  4. #3
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    You don't have to keep making new threads to post your work, and people are going to tell you that you need to work on anatomy. You want to improve? Try and draw realistically, use reference, and if you want to shade and color do so only in black & white.

    Forget focusing on line work, recoloring, manga studio, or any of your special tools and techniques. Pencil or pen, or a simple round brush if you must go digital.

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  5. #4
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    I'm beginning to wonder if this poster is even interested in improving. So far, they're spending a lot more time making pointless threads for work they don't intend to improve than actually, y'know, drawing and trying to improve.

    The Nezumi Works Sketchbook - Now in progress

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    "Skill is the result of trying again and again, applying our ability and proving our knowledge as we gain it. Let us get used to throwing away the unsuccessful effort and doing the job over. Let us consider obstacles as something to be expected in any endeavor; then they won't seem quite so insurmountable or so defeating." - Andrew Loomis
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nezumi Works View Post
    I'm beginning to wonder if this poster is even interested in improving. So far, they're spending a lot more time making pointless threads for work they don't intend to improve than actually, y'know, drawing and trying to improve.
    Well maybe he can find something to impress us instead of trying to get better yeah?
    (sarcasm)

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    I'm beginning to wonder if this poster is even interested in improving. So far, they're spending a lot more time making pointless threads for work they don't intend to improve than actually, y'know, drawing and trying to improve.
    This is actually my old work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kshirogane View Post
    This is actually my old work.

    Which looks exactly the same as your NEW WORK

    Seriously there is little to no difference.

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  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kshirogane View Post
    This is actually my old work.
    Why are you posting it? There aren't any asspats here for you, so it can't be for that.

    You're supposed to be working on getting better, as discussed in the other thread. Show us some new work that shows you're improving.

    The Nezumi Works Sketchbook - Now in progress

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    "Skill is the result of trying again and again, applying our ability and proving our knowledge as we gain it. Let us get used to throwing away the unsuccessful effort and doing the job over. Let us consider obstacles as something to be expected in any endeavor; then they won't seem quite so insurmountable or so defeating." - Andrew Loomis
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  11. #10
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    Please dont post links, we want to see posts here. Still I see very little improvement. Your art has basically stayed the same for 2 or 3 years from the looks of it.

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    No, no. We can work with this. So let's take a closer look.

    First piece:

    What's wrong:

    Overall, her pose makes no sense. You'd have to strain a lot to keep your back straight while the arms are behind the head like that and one leg lifted. It looks awkward as hell. Her hip is dislocated. there's no way her right leg can be in that location with her butt flat on the bed. Work out where the pelvis is before adding limbs, that's a basic rule. While we're at it, her feet are flat objects and it's hard to tell her right from her left. The feet have very poor construction, and the legs are just tubes. Her left breast seems to be trying to crawl into her armpit. Do you know how her ribcage is oriented so you can place the breasts? How do you know? Her arms are different lengths. Her face is a bit of a mess. Her nose is huge, her right eye is higher than her left, and her mouth seems to have slid downward a bit. The disk that I assume is her ear isn't shaped like an ear and isn't attached to her head. Maybe it's a hair ornament. The bed itself appears to be made of pudding. There's an odd stain on the floor. It can't be a shadow, because it doesn't seem to correspond to what's above it.

    Things to work on:

    Gesture. Line of action. Anatomy. Simply blocking in the primary forms and figuring out what direction they're facing would be a good start. Hips, chest, head. Go from there. STOP FAKING YOUR HEADS! Hell, stop faking everything. Get some reference and try to look at what things actually look like. Figure out where the bed is (block it out first) before you put her ass on it. Learn a bit about drapery and fabric, even the basics is good. Work on your feet, do them as wedges first and be aware they have sides and a top. Practice all this stuff.

    Second piece:

    What's wrong:

    Right away, the colour is horrible. Never use a gradient like that, it makes your work look ugly. More particularly, it looks like her torso is a flat TV screen. It's lazy and will not make people like what you do. Her fingers are broken. Some of them are far too short for her hand, and they bend in unexpected ways. Her feet, again, are flat objects. Even in profile, we can see some of the rest of the foot, and the foot we see straight on doesn't seem to be pressing against the ground, making it look like she's floating. Again, tubular legs but at least they connect to the body this time. Knees don't look like that. Look in a mirror, for crying out loud, a knee is a TRIANGULAR formation that lies under muscle, fat and skin. The shoulders are oddly aligned, given her arm movement. You have a tangent where her knee touches her other leg. This is a drawing error that you should avoid.

    Things to work on:

    STOP USING COLOUR! You're really bad at it, and seem to be using it to cover up the fact that your drawing is poor and you don't understand volume yet. So stop doing that and try to communicate form with simple line and shading before trying to work with colour again. I know it gets you asspats at dA, but that's no way to improve. In fact, it holds you back. Again, work on anatomy and gesture, learn how the body moves. Do a lot of studies of actual gymnasts to figure that out. Draw basic shapes several hundred times to give yourself a better sense of three dimensions, which you've very weak on right now. As before, stop trying to fake faces, and learn construction. Look up Andrew Loomis' Drawing the Head and Hands, there's a lot of basic information you need.

    Now I don't really expect you to put any of this into practice, given your actions so far. But hope springs eternal, and this way you can't claim you weren't given the information or taken seriously. But it's up to you to prove that you're interested in getting better.

    So prove it.

    The Nezumi Works Sketchbook - Now in progress

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    "Skill is the result of trying again and again, applying our ability and proving our knowledge as we gain it. Let us get used to throwing away the unsuccessful effort and doing the job over. Let us consider obstacles as something to be expected in any endeavor; then they won't seem quite so insurmountable or so defeating." - Andrew Loomis
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  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nezumi Works View Post
    Look up Andrew Loomis' Drawing the Head and Hands, there's a lot of basic information you need.
    Along with that, I'd say look at Fun With A Pencil

    You can find both for free right here!

    You're weren't really sticking to the reference. Ex, how big her hips are, how far the arm stretches out. Do some exercises from those if you want to improve.

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    I just read Figure Drawing for all it's Worth and drew sketches based on the charts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kshirogane View Post
    I just read Figure Drawing for all it's Worth and drew sketches based on the charts.
    That's a good start. But keep in mind, it's only a start. You've got to do that, and draw mannikin figures, and a lot of other things, over and over again until you really understand them. Doing it once or twice isn't nearly enough, you want to make this second nature.

    You're learning a physical skill here, as well as a mental one. Physical skills require diligent practice, which is why we have sketchbooks. You need to keep going, and do things again and again and again, to ingrain them into your practice. You also need to be willing to let go of old ways that aren't working right. That's all part of learning any skill, and it's a rare person indeed who's good at it off the bat.

    There are rewards though, and it feels really good to look at stuff and say with confidence, "I'm on the right track". I want to see you, and in fact all the beginners, have reason to say that on a regular basis.

    The Nezumi Works Sketchbook - Now in progress

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    "Skill is the result of trying again and again, applying our ability and proving our knowledge as we gain it. Let us get used to throwing away the unsuccessful effort and doing the job over. Let us consider obstacles as something to be expected in any endeavor; then they won't seem quite so insurmountable or so defeating." - Andrew Loomis
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  16. #15
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    Here's my input.

    Learning and improving skill level have a lot to do with having the 'right' attitude. Humility is the key of learning. When I was in Art Center I couldn't learn and improve because I was so full of myself.

    I don't want to be insulting, but I am afraid that OP has little initiative to learn and improve.

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    When you draw something, spend some time really really trying to nail everything, Dont go, this looks somewhat similar in some way but its anime so its ok!

    The gymnast piece did not capture tone, value, anatomy, subtelty of the hair, detail, and the closest thing you got was the pose, but even then its waayyyyy off.

    So lets talk anime for a minute, anime is animated, they capture a ton through motion and background as well. Even manga pays attention to these things, motion lines, expression, anatomy,etc. Even when they are still they focus on expression and detail.

    kshirogane's sketchbok
    kshirogane's sketchbok

    LISTEN to what people are telling you.

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    I am listening. I got her skeleton right and limbs in the right proportion and place, is there something I'm missing?

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  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kshirogane View Post
    I am listening. I got her skeleton right and limbs in the right proportion and place, is there something I'm missing?
    STOP MAKING EXCUSES!

    It's obvious that you need work, and it's equally obvious that you're trying to keep doing what you've been doing without committing. Your current work is not working. So you need to step away from it, learn things, and then see where you want your style to go. It's way too early for you to be trying to do a particular style, and it will hold you back.

    So tell me, how did you get your skeleton right?

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    Seriously, take a couple of weeks and practice just the skeleton/mannikin like I've got above, or like in the Loomis books. No details. No colour. No Photoshop. Take a pencil. Take a piece of paper. Do it. See where you are at the end of a couple of weeks.

    Then we'll talk.

    The Nezumi Works Sketchbook - Now in progress

    My online portfolio

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    "Skill is the result of trying again and again, applying our ability and proving our knowledge as we gain it. Let us get used to throwing away the unsuccessful effort and doing the job over. Let us consider obstacles as something to be expected in any endeavor; then they won't seem quite so insurmountable or so defeating." - Andrew Loomis
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    Sketchbook Page on Photobucket

    These are some of my newer sketchbook drawings.

    http://s752.photobucket.com/albums/xx164/kshirogane/


    Attachment 1032509

    Attachment 1032511







    -ps sry if I came out as a "weeaboo".

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  21. #20
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    Links =/= bad
    Posts =/= good

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  22. #21
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    For some reason the attachments aren't loading for me.

    The Nezumi Works Sketchbook - Now in progress

    My online portfolio

    Bloggity blog

    "Skill is the result of trying again and again, applying our ability and proving our knowledge as we gain it. Let us get used to throwing away the unsuccessful effort and doing the job over. Let us consider obstacles as something to be expected in any endeavor; then they won't seem quite so insurmountable or so defeating." - Andrew Loomis
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  23. #22
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    I've merged the the threads and moved them to the Sketchbooks section where they belong. Please figure out how to post the pics in-line rather than as links.


    Tristan Elwell
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  24. #23
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    Last edited by kshirogane; August 6th, 2010 at 10:25 AM. Reason: Too Big
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  25. #24
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    Ah, there they are. I must say, it's nice to see all that work up there. That's the sort of stuff you really need to be concentrating on, so the fact that you are is awesome.

    One thing I do notice is that a lot of your stuff, with the exception of the Loomis head studies, is flattened out, and trying to compensate for that leads you into a bunch of errors in trying to cope with that. Like the ballerina in the last page, in order to fit her hip in, it ends up looking dislocated. That's pretty common, and you need to be aware of it in order to deal with it.

    What you should do is think about the ribcage and pelvis as simple solid objects. Both are rigid structures, so no matter how you move, they're going to stay the same. Same for the upper part of the skull, for that matter, it's always the same size and shape. So if you practice those shapes, that'll help you move along. I've got an example of the shapes here that you can follow. Essentially, the ribcage is an egg shape, flattened on the bottom with an arch cut in the front. Not very complicated. And the pelvis can be simplified to a pair of superhero shorts. The skull, which you probably know already, can be thought of as an egg on its side with a wedge on the front.

    If you can get used to those three shapes from pretty much any angle, that'll make a huge difference in how your work looks.

    The Nezumi Works Sketchbook - Now in progress

    My online portfolio

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    "Skill is the result of trying again and again, applying our ability and proving our knowledge as we gain it. Let us get used to throwing away the unsuccessful effort and doing the job over. Let us consider obstacles as something to be expected in any endeavor; then they won't seem quite so insurmountable or so defeating." - Andrew Loomis
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  26. The Following User Says Thank You to Nezumi Works For This Useful Post:


  27. #25
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    Hey looked at your SB and you definitely need to work hard, no offense, back in the day all I wanted to draw was manga characters, I didn't want to learn anatomy, didn't want to draw real people, manga fascinated, however now that I want to improve my drawing skills for real, no bullshit, I know you have either put it away for now or throw it away until you are ready, if you want to improve. Your sketches while drawing from loomis are horrible, there I said it, again no offense, listen to not only me but to everyone here since they are taking time to offer their help. If you are going to do loomis, do loomis, throw away the anime eyes, throw away the anime everything for now. Try your hardest to draw anatomically correct, again you must want to do this, get some models from a magazine or google and try to draw the model, thinking about light, where its coming from and how it affects your subject. This is my advice from somebody who likes manga and a little anime. I'm pretty new to this as well and am trying to learn different styles, always try new things. Do this everyday and you will improve then start doing anime sketches.



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  28. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    I've merged the the threads and moved them to the Sketchbooks section where they belong. Please figure out how to properly size and post the pics in-line rather than as links.
    Fixed.


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  29. #27
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    When you draw from reference, make sure you're really trying to draw what you see, not what you think you see. As Nezumi pointed out, you don't look like you even tried with the gymnast.

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    More Drawings

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    Even More

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    Two Color Trials

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    -Ancient Bird Green Feathers

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