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Thread: Father Time

  1. #1
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    Father Time

    Edit: The new piece is on top.

    Hey guys,

    This is for this weeks Chow. If you're here reading this, please leave a comment or a crit. I'm doing at least one activity every week to build a concept art targeted portfolio. So don't go easy on me, after all, this is going to be my career. Please let me know what you think!

    Keith
    Last edited by keith eager; July 24th, 2010 at 09:19 PM. Reason: updated thumb


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  3. #2
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    Hello there, you've got some great things going on here; the cloak, his left arm, the overall rendering of the forms... But I'm noticing a few things in your drawing you might want to revisit:

    - His right arm is much smaller than his left.
    - Head seems too big.
    - The wings look like cardboard cut-outs (homeless Father Time, heh), and they are creating uncomfortable tangents with the scythe.
    - His feet are a little too mirrored in my opinion; perhaps move one slightly back or raise it a little?

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    Gee I wonder where you got the pose from.You used the N.C. Wyeth painting "winter". How dare you rip off someone elses work and call it your own. This is pathetic and a disgrace to all the people on this site who are working hard to develop their art skills.

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    What? The only thing I can see the same is the feet.

    His right arm is bothering me. Maybe move his shoulder out a bit.

  6. #5
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    Wow, how about every fold in the cloak? Plus the more I look at it, I bet even the changes are cobbled from another image. It is a competition, the rules say your own work. This is a hack job pure and simple. And you will never work as a professional artist if you have to steal other artists work

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    If he uses other artist's work as reference, it's not "stealing" his work. He have still drawn it at his own. Of course, he should have mentioned the reference picture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pate5 View Post
    If he uses other artist's work as reference, it's not "stealing" his work. He have still drawn it at his own. Of course, he should have mentioned the reference picture.
    Actually that is exactly what stealing someone artwork is. You should do some research into what constitutes steaing before you make such an ignorant comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pate5 View Post
    If he uses other artist's work as reference, it's not "stealing" his work. He have still drawn it at his own. Of course, he should have mentioned the reference picture.
    It would have been "reference" if he needed to get an idea of how drapery blows in the wind, or wanted to use some of those colors as a starting point for his palette. Instead he copied the drapery and the man's legs very closely, and not from a photo he took or a stock image of an unrelated theme, but from another artist's work.

    It's stealing, and if this statement is true;
    I'm doing at least one activity every week to build a concept art targeted portfolio.
    Then he plans on using this as an example of his concepting skills, which is of course dishonest since most of the image is not of his own work. If he said this was a master-study of sorts and filed it under that category on his site/blog whatever there would be no problem.

    Keith;

    Don't enter this in CHOW. Redo it if you can in another way that doesn't involve having to copy from observation someone else's work. If you want to do studies of other artist's images that's fine (and good policy if you're copying from masters) but be honest about the art you create, and don't submit them as your own creation.

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    Reference:

    dpaint, clearly you feel that the piece borrows a bit too much from the great art that I'm making a homage to. If you're so upset over this chances are other people will be too, so obviously this is an issue with the piece that needs to be addressed when I go to finish it. Of course you're going to spot the Wyeth homage, I'm definitely not trying to hide it.

    You should ease up the talk that's slanderous though. You might feel like you're exposing me as a fake, but you're not. I love to reference classical art, but I have no problem changing the piece where I've gone too far, and clearly you feel that I have.

    Paintover to come soon...

    Here's all of my reference, besides what I posed out in the mirror:

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    Jason Rainville:

    Duly noted

    "Don't enter this in CHOW. Redo it if you can in another way that doesn't involve having to copy from observation someone else's work. If you want to do studies of other artist's images that's fine (and good policy if you're copying from masters) but be honest about the art you create, and don't submit them as your own creation."

    I'll be doing exactly that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keith eager View Post
    You should ease up the talk that's slanderous though. You might feel like you're exposing me as a fake, but you're not. I love to reference classical art, but I have no problem changing the piece where I've gone too far, and clearly you feel that I have.:
    Slander is saying something that is untrue. Stealing an image is not an homage, its copyright infringement, if you try to sell it. Passing it off as your own idea is just pathetic and shows a lack of talent and ethics. Pretend whatever you want about not being a fake or disingenuous; your lack of any originality speaks for itself.

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    Whatever man, if you want the last word, it's all yours. I'm just going to get a stronger, more original piece out of this, so thanks!

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    Right, so no one is allowed to use reference for CHOW ever?

    dpaint, I know you have a lot of knowledge, but if you overlaid both pictures, the differences would greatly outweigh any similarity. Please feel free to prove me wrong. At what point of difference do you think using a picture as a starting point becomes wrong or acceptable?

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    Damnit! I was going to use Ilaekae for ref if I had time...

  16. #15
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    Hmm...

    Here's my thoughts.

    If you're using references, it is always good to say that up front. Even include the refs in your WIPs. Even if you weren't trying to hide anything, and it is intended to be an "homage" as you say, it never looks good coming out with that stuff AFTER someone calls you on it. If you had said that and included your references in the original post, you wouldn't have been trolled to begin with.

    Secondly, I have qualms about using master works as references in your finished works. Master copies are things that everyone is familiar with, a tool we all use to improve. But if you're using these master works in your finished artwork, even if you're up front about it, I feel as if the works that results from this will always seem DERIVATIVE. Maybe not the end of the world, but if you're trying to come up with an original voice in your work and sell your ability to come up with ideas, it could be detrimental.

    Solution for this: Reference the master works indirectly, using them as inspiration but not actually pulling elements from them directly, and using photo reference instead (best is if you can shoot it yourself, 2nd best if it's creative commons licensed, but hey we've all googled shit, just don't copy and paste)

    Lastly, I think if you ARE going to reference master works directly, you would do well to change them even further. Show that you're using these works, but when you do so you are really thinking about HOW you use them, and HOW to adapt them to the current piece you're working on in a way that best suits the piece and your artistic skill.

    I don't think you necessarily did anything morally wrong, but it is my opinion if you follow the above suggestions, you'd be in a better spot ethically, technically, and creatively.

    Good luck!
    MY WEBSITE: PaintedSky.ca
    MY SKETCHBOOK: Ook's Book - Karyl Craves Your Approval

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