Pronounciation of artists' names

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    Thumbs up Pronounciation of artists' names

    I just discovered recently that I've been pronouncing the names of many of the great artists of the past wrongly, so I'm very curious to know how to pronounce them:

    1) Rembrandt Van Rijn : I always thought it's said as "Rem-Buran" (with the "buran" part pronounced very fast), but after hearing my teacher said it as "Rom-brond", I realized I was so wrong. How do you say "Van Rijn"? "Van" as in "van" (the vehicle), and "Rijn" as in "Rhine"?

    2) Jean Auguste Dominique Ingres : I just realized too that "Ingres" is not "In-Gres", but "On-Gray"? It was totally shocking to me. Here is my hero but I've been saying the name wrong all along.
    The full name is pronounced as "John Augoose Dominik On-Gray"?
    It seems that "Jean" is sometimes said as "Jeen" and sometimes as "John".

    3) Eugene Delacroix : I always said "Delacroix" as "Dee-la-croyx", but it's pronounced "Der-la-craw"?

    4) Velasquez : How do you pronounce this? "Ver-las-key"?

    5) Seurat : As in "See-you-rart"?

    6) Edgar Degas : As in "Ed-gar Der-gas"?

    Pls post any other artist names that is difficult or confusing for non-European folks like me so that we can all learn.

    Thanks!
    Xeon

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    oh dear....just pronounce 'em like you think you should. It's their work that matters, not the pronunciation of their names...

    Rembrandt van Rijn....uhm...It's Dutch, so I should be able to tell how you pronounce it. Rembrandt, the "e" is like the "e" in "there". The a is kinda difficult to explain. You probably pronounce the "a" like "and". I don't think there is a english word with the Dutch pronunciation of the a in it....
    Rijn... it's not like Rhine, but different. Think of the "uy" in guy but more subtle....geez this is hard

    Ingres is like Angre,
    Delacrouix is like de la crua,
    Velasquez is ike vč las kez
    Seurat like su rat,
    Edgar Degas like Ed gar de ga.

    The last four are french. I've always learnt in high school not to pronounce some of the last letters in some words.....geez....

    I did my best I could...otherwise...look at some documentaries on youtube and such where Dutch and French people pronounce the name like they do.

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    How I'd say them (native English speaker, could order a beer in French or Spanish but that's about it..)

    Rembrandt- Rem-brant. Nobody bothers with the Van Rijn part.

    Jean Auguste Dominique Ingres- "John Augoose Dominik On-Gray" close enough.

    Eugene Delacroix- De-La-kwa

    Velasquez- Vel-as-kez

    Seurat- Soo-ra

    Edgar Degas Ed-gar Day-ga

    Keep in mind that dozens of languages are spoken across Europe so it's more than likely only natives of that particular country are pronouncing it correctly.

    Some of the French ones with audio samples here, there should be equivalents for other languages and surnames on the web.
    http://french.about.com/od/culture/a/frenchnames_2.htm
    http://french.about.com/od/culture/a/frenchnames_3.htm

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    you'll get the hang of pronunciation of names if you know what language they originate from, watching international films with subtitles helps

    1) I always thought it was "ram-brant" oops and i'm not sure of his last name

    2) french: "Jan" (like Genre without the r sound) "O-gew-st" "Dome-ee-neek" "An (as in and without pronouncing the d) - gray" (without pronouncing the y)

    3) Teh-lah-quaw

    4) Veh-lass-Kez

    5) the "eur" sound should be like the one in "voyeur", seur-rah (silent t)

    6) Deh-gah (silent s)

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    Don't feel bad. I always pronounce Aubrey Beardsley as Audrey, much to Elwell's chagrin.

    ij in Dutch is like a y. Had a friend call Laijla.

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    The second syllable of Ingres' name is barely pronounced.
    Lets not even start on Van Gogh, whose name has about 26 different standard pronunciations (Van Go, Van Goff, Van Gugg, Van Hoch, etc etc).


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    Van Gogh is pronounced with a hard 'g'. I guess it's really hard to produce that sound if you're not native dutch. The 'a' in 'Van' is pronounced as the 'a' in 'past' or uhm 'arse' in UK english.
    Van Gugg comes closest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xeon_OND View Post
    1) Rembrandt Van Rijn : I always thought it's said as "Rem-Buran" (with the "buran" part pronounced very fast)
    That actually comes pretty close. You have to end it with a hard 't'.
    'Van' is pronounced as mentioned above, as is the 'a' in 'brandt'. Rijn is pronounced as 'Rhine' with a rolling 'r', the sound that's produced by vibrating the tip of your tongue against the roof of your mouth or the upper jaw ridge (that actually goes for every 'r' sound)

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    Don't forget my favorite Barbizon painters

    Daubigny (doe- bin-yee)
    Troyon (twoy-yaw)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    The second syllable of Ingres' name is barely pronounced
    That's right, otherwise it would be é. No idea how to write it phonetically so - http://www.forvo.com/word/ingres/

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    Ingres is just Ang.

    As for saying Van Gogh, when I first went to Holland, I asked a native speaker how to pronounce it, and he just said, "Van gglch....." Like Gollum clearing his throat. So far as I'm concerned, you can just call him Van Gollum.

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    I'm quite glad that I took French, it makes it easier to pronounce some of these names that I used to have a hard time with lol. xD

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    Reminds me of this



    Usually I just pronounce the names however I think sounds right, since I'm sure there aren't many people in Scotland who actually know or care what the right way to say it is. But if I ever go to a gallery in Europe I'll probably have to just point at any painting I want to talk about and say "that one" rather than offend people with a horrible pronounciation.

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    Zwarrior weenz.

    Ingres: Like Elwell and Baron said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeon_OND View Post
    The full name is pronounced as "John Augoose Dominik On-Gray"?
    Lol no! On-gray = engrais in French = fertiliser in English.

    Eugene: The "g" is not a "d + g" like in English just a "g" and "ene" is like you would pronounce the letter N.

    Delacroix: Flake's De-la-kwa is close.

    Seurat: The "eu" is pronounced like the u in put (in Brit), "a" like in back and the "t" is mute.

    Degas: Like this
    Quote Originally Posted by Grief View Post
    i need Monet, to buy DeGas to make my Van Gogh. i tried to Hale a cab but my Whistler didnt Turner 'round.
    The gas with a "d" indeed. I pronounce the "s" but I think I shouldn't.


    Also, it's (almost) always a mistake to pronounce a diphtong in a French word or name.

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    I've often heard Velasquez pronounced "Veh-LAHS-kweth."

    "Contrary to the belief of the layman, the essential of art is not to imitate nature, but under the guise of imitation to stir up excitement with pure plastic elements: measurements, directions, ornaments, lights, values, colors, substances, divided and organized according to the injunctions of natural laws. While so occupied, the artist never ceases to be subservient to nature, but instead of imitating the incidents in a paltry way, he imitates the laws."-Andre Lhote

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpacer View Post
    I've often heard Velasquez pronounced "Veh-LAHS-kweth."
    In Spain, there's a distinction between the pronunciation of s and that of a soft c or z, which are pronounced like an English soft th. This distinction doesn't exist in Latin American Spanish, and its use by non-native Spanish speakers can seem a little affected.


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    I've had this same problem come up a number of times, especially when I was an undergrad. It used to give me pause too, until one of my wiser profs said this to me after a particularly embarrassing gaff:

    'Don't worry about mispronouncing the names - That's a good thing. It tells me that you've actually read something, and you're not just regurgitating what some other person said to you in passing."

    I still like Mu-tcha and Dee-la-croyx, quite a lot

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    'Don't worry about mispronouncing the names - That's a good thing. It tells me that you've actually read something, and you're not just regurgitating what some other person said to you in passing."
    QFT. True words.

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    Thumbs up

    LOL, thanks for the pronunciations, guys!
    Some of those names are really mind-boggling. I went to the link given by Baron and the lady pronounced "Ingres" as something that sounds like "Anger-hor". LOL I'll pronounced the name as "Anger" from now.

    Van Gogh, I usually hear people here in my country say it as "Van Hock".

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    William Bouguereau always throws me off balance.

    Form, Form, Form, Form, Form, Form, Form, Form, Form, Form.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Man View Post
    William Bouguereau always throws me off balance.
    I thought I was being all fancy pantsy when I pronounced it with a nice soft frenchie j, (jeu, jolie, jeune etc) but it turns out it's a hard g. So as far as I can tell;

    BOO-grow (or if you want to be more french about it, BOO-ger-oh)

    With most of the r's in here remember too that there's a slight rolling of it, so it shouldn't sound like
    booger-OH! more like bou gdr oh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonwclark View Post
    I've had this same problem come up a number of times, especially when I was an undergrad. It used to give me pause too, until one of my wiser profs said this to me after a particularly embarrassing gaff:

    'Don't worry about mispronouncing the names - That's a good thing. It tells me that you've actually read something, and you're not just regurgitating what some other person said to you in passing."

    I still like Mu-tcha and Dee-la-croyx, quite a lot
    I don't follow that logic at all. When you mispronounce something then you mispronounce something, not a deal-breaker. But it's really awkward thinking if that actually leads someone to believe you went out of your way to do your research as opposed to someone who did announce it properly, in fact, one could probably argue the opposite.

    My Self-Portraits

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    I'm fairly sure it was just meant to be reassuring, not a logical argument.

    I still pronounce names like Moreau and Bouguereau incorrectly... mainly because that final eau is a lot more subtle in French than the English 'oh' that I usually tack on. Germans and Greeks sometimes give me problems too, and the issue of when to anglicize and when to attempt the original sounds.

    I remember it took me a long time to figure out that Goethe and Goethe where the same guy

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    I think MidgardSerpent is implying, what about the people who've read, and went to great lengths to find out how to pronounce a name properly (i.e. like the person who made the thread), would they be thought of as someone who just heard it somewhere rather than did some research?

    I can see your teacher's intent; that the pronunciation is not what is important, but at the same time, it feels like he's insulted those who do care about pronunciation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonwclark View Post
    I'm fairly sure it was just meant to be reassuring, not a logical argument.
    QFT.
    People are overreacting to a cute story.


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    People = me. Very subtle, but I caught it nonetheless.


    Never mind, I can see now I was taking that a bit too straight forward.

    My Self-Portraits

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatum View Post
    That's tricky, the man pronouncing it is clearly Dutch (I live in Holland), but the soundfile is cut too short, it's cut off right at the moment when he's about to say the hard "gh" part, which is actually what most of the accent is on.

    My Self-Portraits

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    Quote Originally Posted by TASmith View Post
    Ingres is just Ang.

    As for saying Van Gogh, when I first went to Holland, I asked a native speaker how to pronounce it, and he just said, "Van gglch....." Like Gollum clearing his throat. So far as I'm concerned, you can just call him Van Gollum.
    And his paintings are precioussss.... ;-)

    In Dutch, you often get "van" or "van der" in surnames; it means nothing more elevated than "from" or "of." It is pronounced pretty much like the English word "fun", as in having some fun with weird pronunciations.

    The Dutch G is almost invariably pronounced gutturally, pretty much like the "ch" in Loch Ness. Apparently many English speakers struggle to pronounce it? Not sure. I do not know of any who struggle to pronounce "Loch Ness."

    As for Rembrandt, it is pronounced more or less "Rembrunt fun rain." The Dutch "ij" is about (though not precisely) the same sound as the "ai" in "rain."

    Now my own surname, Van der Spuy, is quite thoroughly unpronounceable for English speakers because the "uy" sound does not occur in English. Which is why I sign all my amateurish daubings with my first name, just like Vincent did. :-)

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    I always pronounced "Bouguereau" as "Boh-gur-reel" and "Barque" as "Bar-key". LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by brianvds View Post
    Now my own surname, Van der Spuy, is quite thoroughly unpronounceable for English speakers because the "uy" sound does not occur in English. Which is why I sign all my amateurish daubings with my first name, just like Vincent did. :-)
    Spuy is pronounced as "Spoo-yee"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeon_OND View Post
    Spuy is pronounced as "Spoo-yee"?
    Something like that, but not quite entirely. :-)

    Not that it will matter until such time as I am famous and represented in the world's major art museums. ;-)

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