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Thread: why people aren't leaving conceptart.org

  1. #241
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    Ilaekae is offline P.O.W.! Leader, Complete Idiot, Super Moderator Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
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    I caught a bus.

    It's wasn't where I'm going, but it said "Hooterville" on the sign and I just couldn't resist...







    Send help if I'm not back by Tuesday.


    ...make that Thursday...

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  3. #242
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    *rolls eyes* Furball, it said SCOOTERVILLE. You're headed for a skateboard competition. Good luck. See you in A & E

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaekae View Post

    It's wasn't where I'm going, but it said "Hooterville" on the sign and I just couldn't resist...
    ..Wasn't that the place next to Green Acres and Petticoat Junction?

    XD

     

  5. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liffey View Post
    It is depressing but necessary. Nobody likes drama, but if the issues behind the drama are ignored, the drama will continue to keep bubbling up every few months as it has been doing for a while now. The issues still have not been addressed. Inspirational speeches and big promises have made people forget the problems for now, but they'll be back in a few months. Every time there's drama, the issues are slightly different but there is always a common theme: Manley's great and perplexing unwillingness to address the issues of his dedicated followers in an honest and straightforward fashion. He's making progress though; usually he would delete this topic and ban the people saying bad things about the site. Allowing people to finally speak freely in this thread is a significant step in the right direction, but we still don't have any real answers.

    I'm not saying that to be a downer. It's because this place has been so beneficial to me and so many others, and I don't want it to continue this trend of drama constantly surfacing.
    I completely agree with this. As much as I love CA, and the people I've come to know here, the lovely speeches by andrew, coro, and carl (which, admittedly, I found inspiring and encouraging) still do not adress the issues that have caused this in the first place. What Hannes and Jana said about the TAD teachers... the bannings, etc. I am really curious to know what is to be said about these... If they aren't brought into the open now, I'm positive that they will become a bigger problem later.

     

  6. #245
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    What Liffey and Marlee have brought up is still important; the great feeling this thread has imparted on us will last for a while, but it won't last forever. Just as this thread has been left open (despite times when I thought it would definitely have been closed), if these issues (the supposed bannings, etc) aren't dealt with in the open, there are those who will reignite the drama in due time. I don't want to see that happen. A lot of good came from this thread when not many people thought it would. Lets have the same thing happen with all other issues.

    Thank you, everyone, for keeping this so civil (at points...). The fact that we can even speak like this attests to the community we have here. Off to the critique section.

     

  7. #246
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    CA has been my home for over a year and a half now, it has helped me to realize how to reach my goals, and hundreds of people that shared their experience here on CA as a proof inspired countless artists including me.
    The amount of knowledge I gained from these forums is vast, and although CA has changed from the original state it was formed I agree with Android and Rayk, Times change people change, we need to move on and embrace the new era.
    Conflicts arise it's just the natural way of life and the bigger a community becomes the more conflicts and disagreements will arise, and frankly it is better to let it all out instead of keeping it in (just like in marriege)

    Androind wrote "Some of the greatest success we may achieve will spring forth from our greatest failures." and it is so true and we all should remember that we are all human beings and we all do mistakes and we will keep doing them in the future, the question is will we respect each other in the process?

    There is no other community such as here on CA and I am not about to leave any time soon, I think we all can learn a lesson or two from this thread though, don't just go into 5 star sketchbooks and threads, go into those with no stars or with the 3 stars those are the struggling artists that need your help the most! those are the people who are coming here to become better to make their dream into reality to feed their family by doing whats truly their hearts passion, the great artists with the 5 stars are already great and they know they are and all the compliments they get are always nice to hear but if we take the time for few minutes just throw few words of encouragement for those who really need it, may actually change lives.

    respectfully and kindly I'm with you CA

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  9. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny_K View Post
    CA has been my home for over a year and a half now, it has helped me to realize how to reach my goals, and hundreds of people that shared their experience here on CA as a proof inspired countless artists including me.
    The amount of knowledge I gained from these forums is vast, and although CA has changed from the original state it was formed I agree with Android and Rayk, Times change people change, we need to move on and embrace the new era.
    Conflicts arise it's just the natural way of life and the bigger a community becomes the more conflicts and disagreements will arise, and frankly it is better to let it all out instead of keeping it in (just like in marriege)

    Androind wrote "Some of the greatest success we may achieve will spring forth from our greatest failures." and it is so true and we all should remember that we are all human beings and we all do mistakes and we will keep doing them in the future, the question is will we respect each other in the process?

    There is no other community such as here on CA and I am not about to leave any time soon, I think we all can learn a lesson or two from this thread though, don't just go into 5 star sketchbooks and threads, go into those with no stars or with the 3 stars those are the struggling artists that need your help the most! those are the people who are coming here to become better to make their dream into reality to feed their family by doing whats truly their hearts passion, the great artists with the 5 stars are already great and they know they are and all the compliments they get are always nice to hear but if we take the time for few minutes just throw few words of encouragement for those who really need it, may actually change lives.

    respectfully and kindly I'm with you CA
    Truth.

     

  10. #248
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    Im so glad this misunderstanding and drama or human flaws or whatever you name it.
    Is OVER.Its pointless to fight over small things and let our emotions come out and destroy to pieces something beautifull as the concept art community is.Mistakes happen shit happens.I think this event gave all of us artist's a lesson.A lesson that we should respect each other as humans and not give space to drama and ego to poison our minds of course its easy to say that and much harder to be done.And for those saying (ah we are leaving CA for this reason or that reason) think in clean mind what are you doing dont let ANGER do it no one is perfect be patient everything clears out in the end.
    Anyway LONG LIVE THE CONCEPTART.ORG FORUM it helped me more than i ever expected

     

  11. #249
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    I just quickly want to to say something about the website design Jason posted.

    I dont like it.

    The entire first few sections are focussed on one thing, who is the best, what is the competition, what is the best artwork and who is the most populair . I surrendered myself to the idea that there is no competition in this world except myself. I feel that the more I compete with other artists, the more I trade something in from myself. This is a lesson I learned from CA's founding members. Its especially odd since Jason mentioned that the spirit of CA is too much about competition, yet the entrance of the site celebrates it.

    The focus should be on the community, since that is what CA is to me, and TAD will maybe become. But the community elements are near the bottom. When I visit the frontpage I would like to see what is going down now. New art, a selection of great work from the last days, what is happening in the forums, and community news.

    All the other things, leaderboards, work, featured artists, blogrolls, etc. They are a second priority. I will just sit down one lazy afternoon in the week, or 2 weeks and go through that. But not on a daily basis.

    Just my 2 cents, I hope they are worth anything

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    Well, I somewhat agree with the above. But maybe you don't have to see it as something to compare yourself to. Just an opportunity to see some of the great art that's come out of the site. Although maybe three different 'best artist' columns are a bit redundant. I'd prefer if there was one where I could then choose different categories like 'most recent', 'highest rated' and so on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duq View Post
    I just quickly want to to say something about the website design Jason posted.

    I dont like it.

    The entire first few sections are focussed on one thing, who is the best, what is the competition, what is the best artwork and who is the most populair . I surrendered myself to the idea that there is no competition in this world except myself. I feel that the more I compete with other artists, the more I trade something in from myself. This is a lesson I learned from CA's founding members. Its especially odd since Jason mentioned that the spirit of CA is too much about competition, yet the entrance of the site celebrates it.

    The focus should be on the community, since that is what CA is to me, and TAD will maybe become. But the community elements are near the bottom. When I visit the frontpage I would like to see what is going down now. New art, a selection of great work from the last days, what is happening in the forums, and community news.

    All the other things, leaderboards, work, featured artists, blogrolls, etc. They are a second priority. I will just sit down one lazy afternoon in the week, or 2 weeks and go through that. But not on a daily basis.

    Just my 2 cents, I hope they are worth anything
    I would say, the majority here aspire to be professionals eventually. Making the competition visible, is one of this site greatest tools.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by tobbA View Post
    Well, I somewhat agree with the above. But maybe you don't have to see it as something to compare yourself to. Just an opportunity to see some of the great art that's come out of the site. Although maybe three different 'best artist' columns are a bit redundant. I'd prefer if there was one where I could then choose different categories like 'most recent', 'highest rated' and so on...
    Yes ofcourse, but the overload on how awesome you could be, and leaderboards and everything. I do value those things to be in an art community, but they are presented as the top thing right now.

    And on a day to day basis, I really care more about what is happening in the entire community. Instead of just the the top layer.


    I would say, the majority here aspire to be professionals eventually. Making the competition visible, is one of this site greatest tools.
    I would say the site greatest tool is to meet new friends

    "Master storytellers never explain. They do the hard, painfully creative thing-- they dramatize"

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  17. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duq View Post
    Yes ofcourse, but the overload on how awesome you could be, and leaderboards and everything. I do value those things to be in an art community, but they are presented as the top thing right now.

    And on a day to day basis, I really care more about what is happening in the entire community. Instead of just the the top layer.




    I would say the site greatest tool is to meet new friends
    It's all a matter of perspective really. Your personal goals and intentions.

    I think the best way that something like this could be handled would be for an addition the the User CP that allows you to customize some elements of the layout. Maybe based on a series of template presets that the MB guys put together where different elements of the new boards are arranged differently, depending on the users preference.

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  19. #254
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    I'm all for the idea of having a rolling slide of recent highly rated art. After all, you obviously just don't want amateur artwork on your front page. However I agree with Duq in that at least 3 different features are devoted to competing for high ratings, and you know its just going to be the same MB guys up there 50% of the time anyways. You know how on deviantart you can set it to view the most popular of all time, or most popular in the last week? It's always much more interesting to set it to last week, because the popular of all time always stays the same. CA has 2 features that seem to be set on permant "All Time", while that cluster taken from cghub is the only one that lets art rotate out. I could be wrong about those of course, but I think that community should come first, with a rotating set of art up top.

    I think the best way that something like this could be handled would be for an addition the the User CP that allows you to customize some elements of the layout. Maybe based on a series of template presets that the MB guys put together where different elements of the new boards are arranged differently, depending on the users preference.
    That's a great idea. The front page of OMB is huge, and kinda confusing. Personalized oraginzation would be great.

     

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  21. #255
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    Jason Manley is offline Administrator Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
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    There are things that are within CA that will not change. Those who work hard, give the most, share the most, and make the greatest impact with their art will be promoted. We are a community of merit and have always been. I will go ahead and add an arrange feature to the list of things to do so that you can order that main page how you like it, in time. The default will always be merit based. I do think that having another area for me more prominently featured collaborations is a good thing though so thanks for the input.

    As far as who makes it into the leaderboards, you do not know how they work yet, and there are many artists around here who are of equal in skill and talent to those at mb.


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  23. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duq View Post
    I just quickly want to to say something about the website design Jason posted.

    I dont like it.

    The entire first few sections are focussed on one thing, who is the best, what is the competition, what is the best artwork and who is the most populair . I surrendered myself to the idea that there is no competition in this world except myself. I feel that the more I compete with other artists, the more I trade something in from myself. This is a lesson I learned from CA's founding members. Its especially odd since Jason mentioned that the spirit of CA is too much about competition, yet the entrance of the site celebrates it.

    The focus should be on the community, since that is what CA is to me, and TAD will maybe become. But the community elements are near the bottom. When I visit the frontpage I would like to see what is going down now. New art, a selection of great work from the last days, what is happening in the forums, and community news.

    All the other things, leaderboards, work, featured artists, blogrolls, etc. They are a second priority. I will just sit down one lazy afternoon in the week, or 2 weeks and go through that. But not on a daily basis.

    Just my 2 cents, I hope they are worth anything
    I do 100% see your point, but at the same time...being an artist is absolutely a competition. I love the community and it's great that we are all here for each other, but if you think this all isn't a competition you are kidding yourself. Everyone here either aspires to be a professional artist or they are trying to maintain their professional status. And doing so means you have to beat out other artists with your artistic and networking skills to get the client that pays the job.

    That's just the way it is. So for me, it makes sense to showcase that...as long as it's sportsmanlike (which it always has been). That said, I do believe that the forum and the learning tools should be most focused areas on CA.org.

     

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    I agree with Dusty, in that seeing those little icons on the current (and future) site I think would push you to learn and become better, I know I dream of someday being half as good as MindcandyMan or Brad Rigney.

    On the other hand, a personalized forum would be a nice addition, as my list of subforums I visit go almost always in order of:

    CHOW --> Sketchbooks ---> Crit Center ----> Lounge ----> Art Discussion, finally browsing if something in the tutorial section was updated.

    I hope that there's more a bit more focus on networking, don't know, maybe like a real time chat room open during competition weeks on the page of the wips.

     

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    Here's a random idea I had while playing PS3 that might work better than the thanks system. What if we had our own Achievments/Trophies system? Complete certain challenges on the board and you get medals on your profile? For example it'd be something like:

    25 helpful crits = bronze Crit medal
    100 helpful crits = silver Crit medal
    200 helpful crits = gold Crit medal.

    Which would obviously require some sort of "Good Crit" button. Or

    10 sketchbook pages = bronze SB medal
    50 SB pages = silver SB medal
    100 SB pages = gold SB medal

    Going by pages might not be best because it'd be easy to cheat, but you get the idea. There could also be more specific "Achievements" too, such as placing in a Weekly Challenge or passing some sort of anatomy test or something. There'd be lots of room to come up with creative and motivating Achievements and I think it would be fun. Anyways, just thought I'd throw that idea out there.

    Last edited by Ian Barker; July 4th, 2010 at 09:00 PM.
     

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    Liffey- I like your idea about the achievements. Accept the whole SB thing. I'm sort of turned off by pages and pages of crap not worth sharing. I like it when the sketchbooks are condensed into meaningful progress. Some people post the progression of bad habits every day and that is just painful to watch. Good progress should be rewarded by a mod. The highest achievement could be a Nibru icon or a Massive Black (cock) icon.

    PS I'm a little drunk, so please excuse any obsurdity. Happy 4th

     

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  31. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Manley View Post
    There are things that are within CA that will not change. Those who work hard, give the most, share the most, and make the greatest impact with their art will be promoted. We are a community of merit and have always been. I will go ahead and add an arrange feature to the list of things to do so that you can order that main page how you like it, in time. The default will always be merit based. I do think that having another area for me more prominently featured collaborations is a good thing though so thanks for the input.

    As far as who makes it into the leaderboards, you do not know how they work yet, and there are many artists around here who are of equal in skill and talent to those at mb.


    Jason
    Jason,

    Thank you very much for the direct communication about the ideas for the new update being talked about here.

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    I haven't been here for a couple of weeks, come back to a shitload of drama, got to love the internets.

    What I've gotten out of this discussion:

    1: MB and CA.org are businesses being run by friends. As anyone who have tried will tell you, working with friends is a risky business. Chances are that at times tension runs high, people will end up getting their feelings hurt and it is very likely that you'll split up somewhere down the line. This is normal and after a while, people cool down again and the world is somehow still standing and you'll be able to talk to each other without throwing punches or insults.

    2: MB does not equal TAD or CA, even if there is some personell overlap and they stem from CA. As a business grows, it might become several separate entities. That people split along with the business is only natural and while it makes it harder for us to keep track it makes it a lot easier for those directly involved. Also, for Jason to focus on TAD and CA is likely a good choice for his sanity.

    3: People quickly develop entitlement issues to online communities. You got a problem with the way Jason runs his site, PM him and voice your concern, it's a lot better than making a lounge-thread calling him out for keeping the lounge drama-free or demanding answers regarding personal/financial/romantic issues.

    4: Ilękę is a funny man, people love CA, there is a lot of talent and good intentions in this place and I don't think it's going anywhere soon.

    Even if I rarely post any work (I draw far too little these days) I do love this place, even if the perpetual angsty outbursts (20 page threads on finding a girlfriend every two months) keep reinforcing all stereotypes of artists as too passionate for their own good :p

    Best wishes to everyone...
    -Kim

     

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    I agree with Duq since art mastery is mostly a solitary endeavor. Suggested new features should be an extension of the community, not the other way around. CA shouldn't turn into "intro to TAD." or an advertisement for videos or what have. And it hasn't, yet. The information in these forums that is given willingly for free shouldn't need any competition to access. Being a member of CA isn't a job, at least for most. As long as a person has an internet connection and a membership they should be able to get the same info as the next guy. Sure, getting a job takes competition but learning shouldn't It's the same mentality as the whole "Well if you have enough money to attend our school, you can."

    There's nothing saying that people have to be singled out for the work they do. It just seems like it's supported because of tradition. The reward for getting better as a career artist is getting a job and being able to support yourself. So I'm kind of not understanding the need for stratification in the learning process.

    I don't know much about any new features so I don't have a beef with anything coming. I think we, ya'll, have a chance to be original and not turn into CG Talk or Deviantart. Ensuring to the greatest degree that merit=/= who panders to the leaders here and/or popularity would be a good step.

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    I wen't to watch Eclipse last night. Thanx to this thread all I saw was wearwolf and vampire 90210

    I could allmost hear gossip while the movie was running.

    I'll need some extensive weird tale reading to fix my head set.

    Last edited by George Abraham; July 5th, 2010 at 02:25 AM.
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    I think I will add my own 2 cents. Lol they may be crappy ideas or already said.
    So I was thinking maybe there should be like a "most improved" every week or month or every other month. And people can "vote" for these SB but They have to be below a certain skill level or else the most popular people would win ever time.

    Or "most dedicated" a flaw I see in this is that what if someone post more then another. So I am not 100% sure how that work.

    Or mvp for like someone who helps people the most with a "good crit" button or something of that sorts.

    Again just something I thought of and if they were already said ok lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raoul Duke View Post
    I'm sort of turned off by pages and pages of crap not worth sharing. I like it when the sketchbooks are condensed into meaningful progress. Some people post the progression of bad habits every day and that is just painful to watch.
    If someone posts a progression of bad habits every day and you think it's painful to watch, maybe you should step in and give them a helpful suggestion to put them on the right path or get them back on track instead of just being condescending about it. I'm not turned off by "pages and pages of crap" in sketchbooks because I realize everybody's not at the same skill level, and people of all kinds are trying to improve the best they can. In fact, I usually go out of my way to try to avoid visiting insanely skilled/popular artists' sketchbooks because I know that the people on the opposite end of the spectrum could use encouragement and advice more.

    Not being awesome =/= not making meaningful progress. Even if it's pages and pages of "crap" to you, maybe it's still big improvements for the poster of the sketchbook, and I think that's admirable too.

     

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  40. #266
    Arshes Nei's Avatar
    Arshes Nei is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
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    Zaorr, stop it please. If you're not going to post suggestions, and think your "random acts of posting is funny" think again.

    In fact, I think ....thinking before you post would be a good idea. One of the things that has irritated me is that while I like my humor in the lounge and we all need to kick back - is the more 4chan style replies.

    Contrary to the fact that you can post images on this forum, it's not an image board. I don't think CA should be /b ...so know your limits.

     

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  42. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amarok View Post
    If someone posts a progression of bad habits every day and you think it's painful to watch, maybe you should step in and give them a helpful suggestion to put them on the right path or get them back on track instead of just being condescending about it. I'm not turned off by "pages and pages of crap" in sketchbooks because I realize everybody's not at the same skill level, and people of all kinds are trying to improve the best they can. In fact, I usually go out of my way to try to avoid visiting insanely skilled/popular artists' sketchbooks because I know that the people on the opposite end of the spectrum could use encouragement and advice more.

    Not being awesome =/= not making meaningful progress. Even if it's pages and pages of "crap" to you, maybe it's still big improvements for the poster of the sketchbook, and I think that's admirable too.
    Raoul Duke, I think you mistake the meaning of sketching and of book.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sketching

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sketchbook

    According to the site guidelines, all finished and quality works go in the Finally Finished sub-forum, while the rest and progression is broken into sketchbook and the critique section sub-forums.

    *** Sketchbook and other stuff ***

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    Leaving? I've got a few:
    Herd instinct, 'us versus them' attitude, general bitching and whining, lack of originality, shallowness, bashing of other artforms and ideologies, idolizing, the 'you shouldn't do it your way, you should do it my way' mentality.

    Love the site for discussions, learning, Coro and Dobsky love parades and Nibru.

     

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    PieterV, I would like to see some examples. Although I would agree there is too much idolizing.

    *** Sketchbook and other stuff ***

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    This thread seems to have transformed into a "how-to-improve-the-forum" thread. Maybe someone has mentioned this but I'll take that chance;
    please, please improve the attachment manager! It is a complete pain in the butt to upload several images as it is now. Particularly when it bugs out after you click upload sometimes. Thanks!

     

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