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Thread: why people aren't leaving conceptart.org

  1. #271
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    Oh god yes, the option to upload images in bulk would be godsend.

     

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  3. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexson View Post
    This thread seems to have transformed into a "how-to-improve-the-forum" thread. Maybe someone has mentioned this but I'll take that chance;
    please, please improve the attachment manager! It is a complete pain in the butt to upload several images as it is now. Particularly when it bugs out after you click upload sometimes. Thanks!
    So true, even flickr and FACEBOOK makes it easier to upload... facebook of all places...

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    I agree with the up loader. And is there any way to turn off the categories? They are annoying.

    What about a graphic design/typography section?

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amarok View Post
    If someone posts a progression of bad habits every day and you think it's painful to watch, maybe you should step in and give them a helpful suggestion to put them on the right path or get them back on track instead of just being condescending about it. I'm not turned off by "pages and pages of crap" in sketchbooks because I realize everybody's not at the same skill level, and people of all kinds are trying to improve the best they can. In fact, I usually go out of my way to try to avoid visiting insanely skilled/popular artists' sketchbooks because I know that the people on the opposite end of the spectrum could use encouragement and advice more.

    Not being awesome =/= not making meaningful progress. Even if it's pages and pages of "crap" to you, maybe it's still big improvements for the poster of the sketchbook, and I think that's admirable too.
    I knew I'd get kicked for saying what I said. I don't like critiqing sketchbooks because I don't like telling people they've been working hard for nothing. I can copy and paste the same crits over and over again. I see too many people studying in the wrong order. Too many people post page after page of misinterpretation of bridgeman or even worse copying without interpreting at all. So many people learn how to copy but don't learn how to think for themselves. (geez that sounds mean) I don't want to be the bad guy, but more posts does not mean bigger improvement.

     

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  7. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raoul Duke View Post
    I knew I'd get kicked for saying what I said. I don't like critiqing sketchbooks because I don't like telling people they've been working hard for nothing. I can copy and paste the same crits over and over again. I see too many people studying in the wrong order. Too many people post page after page of misinterpretation of bridgeman or even worse copying without interpreting at all. So many people learn how to copy but don't learn how to think for themselves. (geez that sounds mean) I don't want to be the bad guy, but more posts does not mean bigger improvement.
    Think for themselves. what does that mean?

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  8. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan K View Post
    I agree with the up loader. And is there any way to turn off the categories? They are annoying.

    What about a graphic design/typography section?
    As a graphic designer, I wouldn't mind seeing a GD section, however, it does kinda fall outside this forum's specialty and it would very likely see little action with the current userbase on here. =/ If you have done some personal design work (as most client work is contractually under NDAs), posting it in the lounge to get some crits is perfectly fine, at least it has happened often in the past with portfolio websites etc. and there have been good crits given.

    The categories and copyright information reqs were implemented to protect work that is uploaded from being stolen. If work is tagged with copyright and categories, it is easily searchable and traceable, meaning that if your work gets stolen you have a much better case as they can't claim that they tried to find your work, but were unable to (do a search for the Orphan Works Bill if you are unfamiliar with the legal side). I don't see them removing that, but the uploading could definately be streamlined, it's just a matter of finding a solution that works both for convenience and copyright-safety.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashback View Post
    Think for themselves. what does that mean?
    If your letting the reference make all of the decisions for you then you are not thinking for yourself. The reference is just there to show you a solution to a problem or maybe a jumping on point to help you get started and inspired. Getting in the habit of copying reference literally is dangerous. You need to be able to invent and improvise from everything you've learned from reference. If you use ref the wrong way, then you'll just learn to copy harder.

     

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  12. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raoul Duke View Post
    I don't like telling people they've been working hard for nothing...
    ...I don't want to be the bad guy, but more posts does not mean bigger improvement.
    Giving crits =/= being a bad guy.
    Giving asspats is the easy thing to do. Giving a good crit takes effort.

     

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  14. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterKiller_ View Post
    Giving crits =/= being a bad guy.
    Giving asspats is the easy thing to do. Giving a good crit takes effort.
    Preach brotha preach

     

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    I don't want to be the one to cause unrest, but there's a huge elephant in the room everyone seems to be overlooking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marlee. View Post
    I completely agree with this. As much as I love CA, and the people I've come to know here, the lovely speeches by andrew, coro, and carl (which, admittedly, I found inspiring and encouraging) still do not adress the issues that have caused this in the first place. What Hannes and Jana said about the TAD teachers... the bannings, etc. I am really curious to know what is to be said about these... If they aren't brought into the open now, I'm positive that they will become a bigger problem later.
    Jason replied after that, but he adressed posts regarding V4 instead of this, and after that people somehow just forgot about it.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raoul Duke View Post
    I knew I'd get kicked for saying what I said. I don't like critiqing sketchbooks because I don't like telling people they've been working hard for nothing. I can copy and paste the same crits over and over again. I see too many people studying in the wrong order. Too many people post page after page of misinterpretation of bridgeman or even worse copying without interpreting at all. So many people learn how to copy but don't learn how to think for themselves. (geez that sounds mean) I don't want to be the bad guy, but more posts does not mean bigger improvement.
    I realize that continuing this conversation is a little off topic, but I agree and disagree with parts of this.

    Yes, critical thinking is paramount to improvement when doing studies. To just copy blindly and assume that the information is going to seep into your brain through osmosis isn't going to lead anywhere.

    HOWEVER. Like Amarok said, if you think that someone is doing studies incorrectly and not gaining anything from it, letting them continue down that path instead of helping them learn how to use reference correctly is letting them work hard for nothing. It's bad enough to have someone tell you "you're doing it wrong" without implying how or why, the worst is having someone not tell you you're doing something wrong when you actually are.

    If they're serious about improving their work they'll appreciate your help rather than thinking you're a bully.

     

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  19. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armonah View Post
    I don't want to be the one to cause unrest, but there's a huge elephant in the room everyone seems to be overlooking.
    El Coro, Carl Dobsky, and Android all pretty much told us to mind our own business. If there's been some drama at Massive Black, I can understand why they wouldn't want to drag it through the Lounge.

     

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  21. #283
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    My personal opinion is that having to many "medals" and "distinctions" can actually remove the openness of our community and cause younger, newer artists to feel disenfranchised.

    Ive noticed myself personally only clicking on the sketchbooks, threads that have stars next to them (which is fine, and they earned it). But because of this there is oftentimes alot of good art that is looked over and never given a chance.

    I like the idea of giving credit to those who are dedicated in the forums but i think that should be based off of more than just how many posts you make.

    I would like to see some sort of scrolling banner or interface where you can view all the most recent uploads on the site. It would be cool if this updated once ever 4 hours or somethign that way you can quickly scan and see whats going on in all the image threads.

    Also, i am in favor of changing the merit banner up top...I do realize that alot of these people are great artists who have contributed alot. But i feel that if they are not active then they do not truly represent our community.

    BTW...why isnt Robogabo up there? He should have been up there a long time ago.

    I wouldnt mind seeing that list either taken down or shortened to include only people who are somewhat active and participate in the community. Some of those artists i havnt seen post in the forums for years, and i think it is highly unfair.

    I understand that it is important to display top quality work and i know that alot of what motivates us all is seeing the artwork of [legendary] artists. But i hope that in the future we can focus on putting into the spotlight the great work that is pumped into our community day-to-day instead of having really really old stuff up there.

    As much as i think that CA needs to update, change, and get with the times i think its also important for us to revive some of the old community thigns we used to do. Our mentorship boards need a steroid shot, and i do pray for the revival of our tutorial board.

    Community generated content is (what i believe) what will truly bring this place back to life.

    I think that the biggest mistake our members have made is thinking of this place only as another space to advertise themselves, instead of contributing something that will help future artists and peers.

     

  22. #284
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    Ok...a few things.

    a. yes there are some featured artists who do not post often. However, they support the site in other ways like teaching at workshops or the like.
    b. yes it is time to do a cull of a few and add a bunch more. We need to add artists from
    -sketchbooks section
    -fine art
    -3d/sculpt
    -other concept artists (peleng for example...mmmm so good)
    -there will also be a photography section main page (Phil Holland/ Randis and others from that small but talented community)


    People come and go from this community all the time. Many come back. Ron Lemen was gone for a couple years and is now back for the long haul. Most of the original CA main page members are gone for a variety of reasons and have been for years (Feng, Zhang, Spinefinger, John Dickenson, Seegmiller). The simple fact is that this place has had come and go change since day one. The sky is not falling. There has been times where coro went six months without posting...times when andrew went three months without posting...times where Bengal used to post every day and then disappeared for the long run (Bengal where are ya!!! God I miss that guy around here). This is the third time that another has left/been banned. Even Davi who used to live in here has since gone on to a career. It is what it is. There are a few constants. Elwell. Emily G. Ilaekae...even Chaos and more. The community activity leaders who have rocked this site for years straight...certain gals who monitor this site and feed me ideas in pm all the time...others who give me help when I least expect (Y'ALL KNOW WHO YOU ARE!! Thank you). It is the unsung heroes who make this place tick...not just the big names who contribute occasionally or teach at the workshops. We are going to make some changes to be sure that everyone gets their due.

    Point is...yes it is time to bring some change up top. Yes it is time that others here are given the spotlight. We are going to do that bigtime. Each section of the community will get it's due. Every single major section of the community will have main page / featured artist members. We are going to have some that are nominated by mods and admin and even some which come from a community push and nomination process. I expect the featured artists to be double what it is right now at least and yes it needs to reflect today's reality.

    Speaking of which...it will be time for a workshop announcement soon. Gonna be some surprises this time around. We shall push some new ideas as leading there has always taken constant reinvention. Looking forward to that. Anyway....

    Some up there have been kept up there because of certain contributions that few know of. Others up there are always on. There are some whom will be coming down. There will be many more going up.

    With that said, if you have ideas on whom you want to see up top in each category, by all means..feel free to nominate by category as shown above.

    See you on the boards...


    Jason

    Last edited by Jason Manley; July 6th, 2010 at 09:27 AM.
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  24. #285
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    PS...I do like what lol had to say about people using this place for more than just promotion. I think it is that time again.

    Crit week begins now. Spread the word.

    And finally, six months ago I was told that the sky was falling the sky was falling. Since then, little or no participation from those who migrated on, CA has pulled in TEN MILLION VISITS to the site, an all time record and traffic during that time has been the highest on record. We are up 35 percent over a year ago.

    Hard work pays off.

    Now back to the crits!

    Last edited by Jason Manley; July 6th, 2010 at 10:33 AM.
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  26. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sepulverture View Post
    The newest additions, and upcoming additions are great to be sure, but they aren't what made CA great. Much of the culture of the site when I arrived is gone now. People pay lip service to it, but in substance it has simply vanished. Now everything is just a competition for front-page space on any of the forums and for people to click the "thanks" button at the bottom of the post, with little contribution to the sub forums and all of the older experienced members are becoming inactive or simply leaving. They are leaving for a reason, to be sure, but ultimately it's resulting in the culture of the site stagnating and becoming incestuous. New-comers rarely respect the traditions of the site, and lack the experience to provide thoughtful feedback, although not for lack of trying.
    Reading through this thread, this comment hit the spot for me, as someone who used to post here on CA, but just lurks for interesting art threads now. When I joined around 2004 this site was small and streamlined; there was no fat. There were loads of members, but the focus of the site was directed, everyone knew it, and the forum conveyed it. CA felt like a big bar full of artists sketching away and interacting on a personal level. In short it felt like a real tight knit community.

    Then changes crept in one by one and the focus seemed to become greatly diluted. Sketchbooks became big; essentially just concept blogs that are crammed with superfluous commentary, skipped over unless they have a high star rating. The whole forum section is and always was an ass kissing parade; something the old CA tried not to be. And now it's the top of the art section.

    The forum is huge now, with place for all manner of discussions, from hardware to photography. Useful, perhaps. The new CA is jam packed with advertisements, which I assume are necessary to promote the goods and make money for workshops and hosting. Necessary, perhaps. The TAD consumes a huge section of forum space. Maybe that's necessary too, but I have to SCROLL DOWN TO SEE THE ART. If that isn't an indicator of the loss of the old CA attitude, I don't know what is.

    Drop by drop the changes to the forum have taken away that vital feeling of a tight knit community. Now it's more like a giant expo hall with artists wandering around while advertisements play over the speaker system. Cold, austere, and only nice to just walk around in to see some neat things, then go back out into the sunshine. There have been attempts to foster the spirit of the old CA for years, but the environment makes the community.

    We used to turn our noses up at deviant-art and laugh at their pathetic community, but now CA is drifting close and closer to what it once mocked. Let the crappy manga artists in and it'll be more or less the same.

    Maybe that's just me, maybe others feel the same, but either way that's the prevailing reason I've been turned off by CA for quite some time now. Luckily I was never important, and never posted much art, but Coro and Marko were, and did, and embodied a big slice of the old CA. I can't say the site would get better without them, just colder.


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  28. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfacto View Post
    The forum is huge now, with place for all manner of discussions, from hardware to photography. Useful, perhaps. The new CA is jam packed with advertisements, which I assume are necessary to promote the goods and make money for workshops and hosting. Necessary, perhaps. The TAD consumes a huge section of forum space. Maybe that's necessary too, but I have to SCROLL DOWN TO SEE THE ART. If that isn't an indicator of the loss of the old CA attitude, I don't know what is.
    While the webmistress in me is no fan of scroll, especially since the banners on the site take up a lot of real estate to the point I can't even see the forum until I scroll down. If there are forums you're not interested in, you *can* do something about that.

    On the right hand under Posts on the front part of the forum is a circle with a double arrow. CLICK ON IT. It collapses the forum.

     

  29. #288
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    Jason,

    Thanks a lot for your continued presence here in this thread where all the so called "drama" has been taking place (I prefer the term 'communication', but that's neither here nor there).

    It has helped to restore some of my confidence in the site to see you address some of the primary concerns discussed in this thread by announcing an official Crit Week. This will most definitely attract some attention to the feeling of community and partnership that people once cherished here. I for one know that you are without a doubt an extremely busy person, so it's great to see you taking time to address conflict directly with constructive action. I truly hope to see you personally participating in these kind of discussion threads, and listening to what the community believes to be some of the root causes of certain problems, and continue to address them directly as you have here with the advent of crit week in response to "drama week".

    Dfacto - I hear you loud and clear here brother (sister?). After reading your post and mulling over your comments a bit, I think I might have thought of a solution to the problems of the dissolving culture of inter-artist communication and try to restore that part of CA glory to a higher level.

    It's not a perfect idea, but it showed it's potential here in the community in the form of the Mentoring sub-forum.

    I propose that we establish cabals similar to the present entity known as "sketchbook support groups". That was a brilliant idea with amazing benefits and I think it could be expanded on to help foster the restoration of some of the things that are commonly agreed upon as being lacking these days.

    The idea is quite simple. New members sign up, and when they create their account and whatnot an automatic welcome message is generated and forwarded to their p.m. inbox informing them of the guidance groups. These are essentially small groups of fledgling artists lumped into cabals of 5-10 people under the leadership of long time community volunteers who guide them for their first hundred posts or so, then set them loose to make their millions. They would function similarly as sketchbook support groups, but with a larger focus on the rules and traditions of the site being passed down from the veterans of the site to newer generations.

    These team leaders would then have the right to dismiss fledgling members from their cabal if they feel they aren't pulling their weight to help their fellow artists, or are otherwise detracting from the experience of the new support structure. Assignments can be given out by team leaders with due dates and certain criteria which can be tailored to the groups special needs, or drawn from a pool of pre-made assignments and lessons. Some of these things could range from anatomy studies, perspective studies and the like down the line to the history of CA, how it was founded, some of the things that helped to establish the culture of the community, or any other thing that the team leader thinks would be beneficial for the group, and help add to the overall re-establishment of some of the characteristics that were lost in the site, while still fostering growth and development.

    The members of these cabals wouldn't be limited to a small, easily overlooked sub-forum like what ultimately befell the Mentoring sub-forum, since there would be no physical base of operations so to speak for people to report to. These cabals could establish group threads in any forum where they think would be the most appropriate for them.

    Studying anatomy and drapery as it appears on the human form? Start a group thread in the Fine Art forum.

    Discussing art history? Start said group thread in the Art Discussion forums.

    Is there a group of experienced artists working together to generate tutorials and assignments for the cabals to use? Open a thread in the Tuts Tips and Tricks forum (I'll even help get the ball rolling there).

    This of course is not perfect as I said, and I was sort of thought of the details as I was typing it. I think this would be something that everyone could benefit from, it would give experienced members of the site something they could do to help improve the state of the forums as well as giving them tangible goals and whatnot to work towards, while allowing newer members the opportunity to start their journey on the right foot with sure-handed, well rounded guidance.

    I would really like to see some discussion of this idea from people who think it is plausible and want to help refine the idea into something that we could launch right here in the lounge, but opening sign-up threads similar to SeraphSwords SSG sign-up thread.

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  31. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfacto View Post
    Reading through this thread, this comment hit the spot for me, as someone who used to post here on CA, but just lurks for interesting art threads now. When I joined around 2004 this site was small and streamlined; there was no fat. There were loads of members, but the focus of the site was directed, everyone knew it, and the forum conveyed it. CA felt like a big bar full of artists sketching away and interacting on a personal level. In short it felt like a real tight knit community.
    The main cause for the site becoming bloated is the fact that the site is growing and the member base is changing. If old members become complacent and new members have no clue, then yes, you start to lose community spirit. The only cure for loss of community spirit is for individual members (YOU) to act the way they wish other members would act.

    I've watched the progress on DA as it's succumbed under the onslaught of millions of users, and the only thing having any positive impact over there is a smattering of individual members getting together, supporting each other, and trying to give each other the constructive feedback they crave. All the new tools and policies that keep getting thrown at DA are useless unless individuals take the initiative to use them well.

    There are no tools or policy changes or instant fixes that will make this site a better community. The admins can't wave a magic wand and make it "the way it was". It's entirely up to the members to turn this into the place they want it to be.

    In other words, stop lurking and start connecting again.

     

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  33. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by QueenGwenevere View Post
    The only cure for loss of community spirit is for individual members (YOU) to act the way they wish other members would act.
    Or much easier. Find other community that fit your personal needs. You're free to go wherever you want. You can also turn any place in the internet into what you want it to be. The possibilities extend outside borders of this forum.

     

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    No music will ever be as good as the stuff you listened to when you were nineteen.


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  36. #292
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    Maybe if it's going to be crit week, we could all find some no star SBs and give a bit of encouragement at the same time. I never bother to check the ratings on any thread as I like to make my own mind up.


    I didn't think it was possible to be called an artist when you have nothing to say. It's like being a writer who publishes individual words as books and expects to be praised for it.
     

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  38. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by lolbbq View Post
    My personal opinion is that having to many "medals" and "distinctions" can actually remove the openness of our community and cause younger, newer artists to feel disenfranchised.

    Ive noticed myself personally only clicking on the sketchbooks, threads that have stars next to them (which is fine, and they earned it). But because of this there is oftentimes alot of good art that is looked over and never given a chance.
    New soldiers in the army aren't offended that their commanders have medals. They're inspired to try and earn their own. That's the idea behind them (it's not the medal that matters of course, but the accomplishment that the medal represents). I agree though, it could also lead to elitism and new users being ignored, but with the help of a mentorship program like Sepulature mentioned, that problem would probably be lessened.

     

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    I would like to add to the call for a graphic design section.

    GD represents the bulk of what I do, and I feel that my foray into learning how to draw has vastly improved my skills in this field.

    I dont think graphic design is unrelated at all, If I make a package for the videogame, that use your artwork on the cover. How I respect your work, and the typographic and layout choices I make are crucial to its final presentation and how most people view your illustration.

     

  40. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    No music will ever be as good as the stuff you listened to when you were nineteen.
    Nonsense. Franz Ferdinand didn't even get together until I turned 26.

    In fact, the two may be related. "Vineris just turned 26," they said "she's going to need our rockin' indie music to get her through the next decade. Let's get this shit on the road, son." It's like they were psychic.

    Coincidentally, Rammstein got a lot better right around then too.

    *** Sketchbook * Landscapes * Portfolio * Store***

    "There are two kinds of students: the self-taught and the hopeless."
    - Dr. Piotr Rudnicki
     

  41. #296
    Elwell's Avatar
    Elwell is offline Sticks Like Grim Death Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
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    Different people are nineteen at different ages.


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
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    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
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  43. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Different people are nineteen at different ages.
    If this thread were a logical argument, your statement would be the conclusion

    QED FTW!

    In the future, everyone will have 15 minutes of privacy.

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    Jason Manley is online now Administrator Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Different people are nineteen at different ages.

    or depending on what time or day of the week it is.


    Graphic Design section. Check. I love great design. I will set up a new forums if you really want to see it done. Those of you who want it....CA will need a couple of mods to help encourage it to grow and in the right kind of nurturing light...activities, etc...wanna?



    J

    LEVEL UP! - ConceptArt.Org online workshops 25% off registration right now!
     

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  46. #299
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    Argh, double post. That'll learn me to go for lunch with multiple tabs open.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Manley View Post
    or depending on what time or day of the week it is.


    Graphic Design section. Check. I love great design. I will set up a new forums if you really want to see it done. Those of you who want it....CA will need a couple of mods to help encourage it to grow and in the right kind of nurturing light...activities, etc...wanna?



    J
    package design / logo / promotional art of the week?

     

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