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Thread: G20 Toronto

  1. #1
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    G20 Toronto

    Let this be the place to discuss if there isnt a thread already.

    My thoughts:
    Pretty much no one was enthused about it being here.
    It cost more than a billion dollars.
    On the saturday the police were slow to react to anything, allowing more vandalism to occur.
    On the sunday most of the police were unnecessary because of the arrests made overnight.
    They then attempted to justify themselves by holding innocent people and journalists for hours without charging them with anything.
    and worst of all:
    All parties involved, media, police, the black bloc, made sure that no real issues were presented to the public.


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    Made me miss the TFC game.

    bastards, at least it was 0-0

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    What the 'black bloc' have done is put the fear of living god into the average business owner in TO, angered the masses, discredited the protest and the protestors, and justified tighter security measures at the next protest (however small) that takes place on canadian soil.

    Seriously, these guys have done more good for the government's side than millions of dollars in media propaganda measures could ever do.

    Do people really think these clowns are anarchists?

    give me a break.

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    Interesting to see a street level perspective. Sounds about like the same foolishness as when we hold those things in the United States.

    I've been watching with interest as Mark Carney said we shouldn't tax the banks to create a bailout fund because that will just teach the banks that bailouts are still possible and they will continue to behave stupidly as long as they think there is a safety net. That had a ring of candor and common sense to it that I am not used to hearing from high level policy makers.

    The following day Stephen Harper comes out and basically says "Well I guess bailouts are kind of a good idea if certain countries want to do them instead of enacting austerity measures." I'm guessing he got some sort of a domineering communique from those big spenders south of his border.

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    ok, so we'll leave this police car right here, and leave the doors open.

    Now wait till the cameras get here, ok, now back off, this is going to look sick on the news.

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    I was so disappointed in the entire mess. It isn't enough that we're getting all these new taxes put on us in Ontario, but add to that the almost 2 BILLION dollars spent on security going up for 3 days in Toronto only to be taken down again.

    Then you look at the way people were actually acting? The entire thing was ridiculous. The people in the black bloc only succeeded in looking like fools in my eyes. Do they not realize that the funds to fix this likely come out of our tax dollars as well? I guess just keep bringing the toll up?

    Sorry, I am so disappointed that it happened in Toronto. Ugh.

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    I heard on The Edge that the heavy police presence downtown made the city's prostitutes uncomfortable to the point of temporarlily relocating to the western 'burbs. You know there's something going down when the Hookers are getting out of town.
    Last edited by Bill; June 28th, 2010 at 08:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExiledRed View Post
    Seriously, these guys have done more good for the government's side than millions of dollars in media propaganda measures could ever do.

    Do people really think these clowns are anarchists?

    give me a break.
    Actually, they're much more in line with the history of Anarchism than you might think. There's always been a belief within that ideology that a final, all-cleansing revolution will be initiated at the street level before spreading throughout the rest of society.

    Infuriatingly, headache-inducingly naive, but I'd call 'em true to the cause. You'll probably never see anyone over the age of thirty in their ranks, though...
    On the whole, human beings want to be good, but not too good, and not quite all the time.
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    I would like to thank the protestors for making my stroll down University avenue on Friday be a really LONG stroll.

    I have never seen that many policemen in one place in my life.

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    I still can't believe the $1.2B it cost to set up this meeting. What could the G-8 and then G-20 possibly talk about that they couldn't have set this up for much cheaper at the formal grounds for international talks, the United Nations.

    It's like:

    G-8: Hey guys, all of us are in pretty bad shape economically so we'll make Canada spend a billion to set us up some sweet clubhouse.

    A random member country: But couldn't we just have the meeting at the UN?

    G-8: That's so done man...we need to be flashier, with cannons and shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reymus View Post
    I still can't believe the $1.2B it cost to set up this meeting. What could the G-8 and then G-20 possibly talk about that they couldn't have set this up for much cheaper at the formal grounds for international talks, the United Nations.
    It's a 21st Century, paleface version of Potlatch...
    On the whole, human beings want to be good, but not too good, and not quite all the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auslander View Post
    Actually, they're much more in line with the history of Anarchism than you might think. There's always been a belief within that ideology that a final, all-cleansing revolution will be initiated at the street level before spreading throughout the rest of society.

    Infuriatingly, headache-inducingly naive, but I'd call 'em true to the cause. You'll probably never see anyone over the age of thirty in their ranks, though...
    My friend, I've done my fair share of protesting. In 1996 I used to think I was an anarchist too, and I know what you're saying....but

    I'm convinced this was a set up, in order to justify stuff like this (see the video Im posting). Anarchists are idealistic, not stupid. They know that scaring people isnt going to win them any friends or support.

    Watch these burning cop car videos. On TV they show you the burning car, and youre left with the impression of an angry mob torching an occupied police car forcing the brave police to flee, when in fact what really happened was a police car was left unattended, the protestors milled around in the area, and an individual thought it would be cool to set it on fire.

    This pretense about rioting is ridiculous, I've witnessed real rioting, in Toxteth, Liverpool and in Blackbird Leys, Oxford. These Canadians dont even come close to being as disgruntled, angry, destructive and prepared for violent confrontation as that. This was not a riot in the slightest.

    This was a set up, and its so blatant its insulting to the intelligence to suggest it wasnt.

    oh yeah, the video.



    just watch the first and then the last two minutes, if you're short on attention.

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur

    Canada
    On August 20, 2007, three protesters in Montebello, Canada during meetings of the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America were discovered to be police provocateurs by Dave Coles, president of the Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union of Canada. The entire incident was filmed and posted on YouTube before being picked up by the mainstream media. The video [10] shows three masked men, one of whom was armed with a large rock, being confronted by peaceful protesters. After the men breached the police line, they were brought to the ground, handcuffed, and taken away. Photographs revealed that their boot-tread matched that of the arresting officers. Although they at first denied that the individuals in question were agents provocateurs, the Sûreté du Québec issued a news release on August 23 admitting that the three protesters were, in fact, police officers.[11][12]

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    I worked late on Friday night... it was great to wake up on Saturday to find myself quarantined in my own neighborhood. Thanks, G20

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExiledRed View Post
    My friend, I've done my fair share of protesting. In 1996 I used to think I was an anarchist too, and I know what you're saying....but

    I'm convinced this was a set up, in order to justify stuff like this (see the video Im posting). Anarchists are idealistic, not stupid. They know that scaring people isnt going to win them any friends or support.
    Flirted with Anarchism myself, so I know there's as many different strains of Anarchism as there is Socialism. I suspect what you're seeing are the latest incarnation of the John Zerzan "Anarcho-Primitivist" crowd that first "distinguished" itself in the '99 "Battle In Seattle". They're a particularly naive lot, in love with the (mostly false) notion that the Earth was a garden paradise before man ruined it with his machines and technology. Elements of their philosophy were depicted in the black comedy "Fight Club".

    It bares little relation to the more classic Goldman/Bakunin schools, which is what confuses the hell out of the traditional leftists at these demonstrations...the nihilism and property damage they see as productive usually winds up getting a lot of fellow demonstrators' heads cracked, as your video showed.

    I've heard the theory that they may actually be double-agents before, too. Who knows...might be something to it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auslander View Post
    Flirted with Anarchism myself, so I know there's as many different strains of Anarchism as there is Socialism. I suspect what you're seeing are the latest incarnation of the John Zerzan "Anarcho-Primitivist" crowd that first "distinguished" itself in the '99 "Battle In Seattle". They're a particularly naive lot, in love with the (mostly false) notion that the Earth was a garden paradise before man ruined it with his machines and technology. Elements of their philosophy were depicted in the black comedy "Fight Club".

    It bares little relation to the more classic Goldman/Bakunin schools, which is what confuses the hell out of the traditional leftists at these demonstrations...the nihilism and property damage they see as productive usually winds up getting a lot of fellow demonstrators' heads cracked, as your video showed.

    I've heard the theory that they may actually be double-agents before, too. Who knows...might be something to it.
    I cant believe that any anarchists would dress up in black and spray anarchy symbols on walls for the cameras. Its counterproductive whatever strain of anarchy you follow, especially when you're basically exhibiting the behaviour that people stereotypically associate with, and use to discredit, your beliefs. If they did this in Seattle, the same suspicions can be applied to that event too. Naivete is one thing, but nobody is deluded enough to think that the population is going to follow that example and 'rise up.'

    All I see is a pantomime, where people make themselves look intimidating, and do all the cliched stuff expected of them for the cameras.

    'See we're anarchists, we wear black and facemasks, you know like rapists and burglars, and we break stuff because we dont want there to be any laws stopping us from harming your children and burning your house down. We're the reason the government spent a billion dollars following a recession on security measures for a global grandstanding exercise. Did I tell you we burn police cars by the way? so the cops really are in danger, and have every reason to piss all over your civil liberties because they have no idea if you're like us or not.'

    And really, if these are real anarchists, why do we only hear about their activities during g20/g8 protests? what do they do in between summits?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardescoere View Post
    I was so disappointed in the entire mess. It isn't enough that we're getting all these new taxes put on us in Ontario, but add to that the almost 2 BILLION dollars spent on security going up for 3 days in Toronto only to be taken down again.

    Then you look at the way people were actually acting? The entire thing was ridiculous. The people in the black bloc only succeeded in looking like fools in my eyes. Do they not realize that the funds to fix this likely come out of our tax dollars as well? I guess just keep bringing the toll up?

    Sorry, I am so disappointed that it happened in Toronto. Ugh.
    Most of them are police dressed in street cloths! If you think about it, there are SOOO many police that had they wanted to they could have stopped these people before really even doing so really it makes you think about what they are doing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExiledRed View Post
    And really, if these are real anarchists, why do we only hear about their activities during g20/g8 protests? what do they do in between summits?
    As I recall, trolling IRL by "tree-sitting" so loggers couldn't cut older trees down was one big activity...

    Back in '99 I looked at 'em as concerned kids trying to make a difference. Ten years on, no difference whatsoever...to anyone sane, that usually implies a change of tactics is in order, so I totally sympathize with your annoyance.
    On the whole, human beings want to be good, but not too good, and not quite all the time.
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