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    Shut up and draw.

    I don't mean that, actually. I'd rather have a dialogue.

    What's with the self-deprecation here? I mean, I understand you're surrounded by artists of different talent levels, and that's a little discouraging. I also understand a lot of people on here can be assholes when they're having bad days (or even good days). But why set yourself up for misinterpreting any constructive criticism others may have of you as attacks on your skill as an artist? I'd love to set up a system where for every self-deprecatory comment you make, you do one figure study, or you draw one thing from life, or you freakin' DRAW. Chances are, you're not bad (as long as you want to improve), you're not weird, and you're not going to die if you don't get the position of the arm exactly right. You're also not going to feel better about yourself if you deface something you're proud of just so you don't have to take responsibility for it.

    So--WHY? Why bother? Why bother with self-effacement? Why are you doing this? What is the aim? What do you want to accomplish this? Where do you want to go with this? Why are you portraying what you're portraying? What is the audience for this? Is this work socially relevant? How much do you care about your work? What will I say when I share this? Should I say anything at all? Why bother with art at all? If you're not asking yourself these questions while you're writing your post, sketching your sketch, putting down your brushwork, et cetera, you're missing out on fundamental questions and answers. And I don't feel like this should be bound specifically to art--everybody should ask themselves why they do what they do and if it's worth it to them. All the fuckin' time.

    Deconstruct yourself. But don't flay yourself. Don't disembowel yourself. Don't prostrate yourself at the feet of "artist-gods." Examine what you do. And I think, most importantly, don't shame yourself. Don't do or say something you'll be ashamed of. Have dignity when you draw, or present your work. It makes the viewing experience that much better.

    I really don't have any reason for posting this, other than the fact that as a completely untrained college student with mild interest in art, it just makes my blood boil to see people making themselves suffer unnecessarily. Is suffering a part of art? Hell yeah. But there's a difference between necessary suffering and outright putting yourself through hell. Life is short. Make yours worth living.

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  3. #2
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    Because we's an overly sensitive-self absorbed bunch of bitches that are at times too melodramatic?

    That's my only reasoning.



    Last edited by OmenSpirits; August 20th, 2010 at 12:44 AM.
    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
    -John Huston, Director
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    I say shake it off. Channel your oversensitivity into something productive rather than waxing poetic about it.

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    But see, that takes Will, rational conscious thought, & drive to push forward through the crap to be productive.

    Not exactly a common phenomenon for the average "artist".

    Last edited by OmenSpirits; August 20th, 2010 at 12:45 AM.
    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
    -John Huston, Director
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmenSpirits View Post
    But see, that takes Will, rational conscious thought, & Drve to push forward through the crap to be productive.

    Not exactly a common phenomenon for the average "artist".
    But exactly what separates the average artist from the above-average artist.


    Tristan Elwell
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    Here's the 1st commandment of getting better at something: if thou dost not act, thou dost nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    But exactly what separates the average artist from the above-average artist.
    Drive, desire, dedication, purpose, ego (the kind that powers your belief that you can get better). Like anything in this life, those things must be at the core of someone who starts as average, and works towards above average and beyond.

    IMO

    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
    -John Huston, Director
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    it's always nice to have some kick in the arse when we drown ourselves up in distraction. i guess that mainly, (and it's true) that our worst enemy is ourselves. when we compromise by saying i'll do it later we're prioritizing our own comfort (usually physically, if not mentally) to get away from strain. and i believe strain is what makes us push forward in sharpening our skills.

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    I think it's ALWAYS mentally. But that's just me.

    If I could edit the voice in everyone's head that screams "I'm not good enough!" and replace it with "SHUT THE FUCK UP AND DRAAAAAAAAWWW!!!" I would. Regardless of how invasive that would be.

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    Has anyone watched Azumi? It's a film about how to become the ultimate assassin. But I think it applies to drawing too.

    *spoilers*
    Deconstruct yourself.
    Mogami Bijimaru is a great swordsman who can disarm people cleanly with one stroke. Someone asks him "what is your problem?" so Mogami pushes him onto a bamboo where he will die slowly. Thus his answer is that deconstructing yourself (or other people) is not worthwhile, by literally deconstructing them.

    And I think, most importantly, don't shame yourself.
    Agrees with movie. The assassin who was ashamed he was hit by a dart died. Mogami was into shaming other people, showing avoiding shame is what makes a good swordsman.

    Is suffering a part of art? Hell yeah. But there's a difference between necessary suffering and outright putting yourself through hell.
    In the film the 10 young assassins (who grew up together in a friendly environment) are asked to pair up and slay each other. Suffering makes you a good assassin.

    However, a band of mercenaries who were into unnecessary suffering lose.

    everybody should ask themselves why they do what they do and if it's worth it to them. All the fuckin' time.
    Mogami asks "why not die?" "what's the significance of living?" and he loses. Azumi asks questions all the time but finds answers from different activities/situations. Don't ask questions using your art.

    To be the best assassin has something to do with this:



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    Quote Originally Posted by anniebelle View Post
    If I could edit the voice in everyone's head that screams "I'm not good enough!" and replace it with "SHUT THE FUCK UP AND DRAAAAAAAAWWW!!!" I would. Regardless of how invasive that would be.
    LOL! i love how that would be possible.


    .. i haven't seen Azumi, btw.

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    I think everybody sucks at art one time or another. Nobody starts out knowing how to paint a master piece. There are no shortcuts around practice, so a person just has to do their time and try not to treat it like a prison sentence.

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    Nice.

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    I'm a hypnotist.

    I baught the certification but it's legit, it gives me the power to make some changes you might find usefull inspite of your concious non consent. Mwahahahaha!!
    I'm sure some part of you can use something like that.

    Now think of a hairy female leg, comon, I know it's too late now.. you can't block it out man.

    What was that about again..? O shit I can't remember..

    Anyway. Hehehehehe!!!

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    When I read things like the first post of this thread I don't really feel it's touching on anything new, nor is it answering any difficult questions. I've always felt that the knowlegde of what one must change is a given, or at least very easily obtained, but the means by which that change is made needs to be discovered by each individual.

    I mean no disrespect when I say that Anniebelle. I just think that the majority of struggling artists here are aware of what they need to do but are struggling and frustrated with the difficulty of living by it. People deconstruct themselves in hope hope of a better re-build. Being told "the right way to go about it" only really heightens that frustration because there'll be a little voice inside telling them: "Damn it! I know all this but why am I STILL struggling to grasp it?".

    Everyone knows the ideal don't they? Work hard, accept your shoutcomings, learn from them and thus get better - repeat. But the good'ol human mind isn't quite as straightforward or easy to work with as that.

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    Do I really need to answer those 14 questions every time before I draw a line? Those questions are some of the hardest too. Questioning yourself raises doubts and that is exactly why people give up. If you have a vision and think that a life as an artist would be cooler than anything else, just go for it. Learning to draw is so easy it makes me laugh. Thinking about your motives all the time will make it incredibly hard.

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    Good to hear someone talk sense.
    Self doubt is inevitable, but you cant let it take you down.

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    I think some artists publicly say things like "I suck and I'll never be good enough" just to get compliments or even notice from their peers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OmenSpirits View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OmenSpirits View Post
    But see, that takes Will, rational conscious thought, & Drve to push forward through the crap to be productive.

    Not exactly a common phenomenon for the average "artist".
    But exactly what separates the average artist from the above-average artist.
    Drive, desire, dedication, purpose, ego (the kind that powers your belief that you can get better). Like anything in this life, those things must be at the core of someone who starts as average, and works towards above average and beyond.

    IMO
    Just a clarification, my post was a statement (agreeing with/emphasizing yours) not a question.


    Tristan Elwell
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    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
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    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Just a clarification, my post was a statement (agreeing with/emphasizing yours) not a question.
    Oh, I understood your intent my friend.

    Others may have not. I just added some more for those that may have not understood and made assumptions.

    Last edited by OmenSpirits; May 14th, 2010 at 12:43 PM.
    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
    -John Huston, Director
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJacks View Post
    I think some artists publicly say things like "I suck and I'll never be good enough" just to get compliments or even notice from their peers.
    You know youre probably right some times but lets use algepfleger as an example. The guy says he sucks all the time right? Now most people would disagree. But if your him and your looking at guys like ruanjia, nox, andrew jones, and a long list of others, do you really think hes just gonna stop and say "damn im fucking good". Id rather he stays humble and driven than pompous and fat (in an ego sense)

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    There's a difference between admitting your weaknesses and insulting yourself. I personally don't think telling yourself you're a good artist is a bad thing, but not acknowledging that you can do better or letting your success turn you into someone lazy or egotistical is when it goes too far.

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    Today I am awesome. Tomorrow I will be even more awesome and by next year - just hold on to your hats when I blow you away.

    It's the only way to think.


    I didn't think it was possible to be called an artist when you have nothing to say. It's like being a writer who publishes individual words as books and expects to be praised for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    But exactly what separates the average artist from the above-average artist.
    I'll let you know.










    ies joke, kay? kay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Spot View Post
    Today I am awesome. Tomorrow I will be even more awesome and by next year - just hold on to your hats when I blow you away.

    It's the only way to think.
    I'm glad YOU get it.

    We just put ourselves throug hell.

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