Updated! The art of the feminine form with Manley/Zhanglu NOW ON DEMAND!!! - Page 2

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  1. #31
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    There are so many things I want to say, but all of them effectively mean Zhanglu is AMAZING and I will definitely be there. You couldn't pay me to stay away.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by soros View Post
    I don't want to pay for a product, which is (maybe) not allways available (for watching again). I think it might be much cheaper. It is NOT ONLY 50 bucks for a "cinema ticket". I think download would be better and I would maybe buy it as Download. So I am out as a customer of this.
    I completely agree. The topic is fine but what are these streaming classes anyway? I really don't get it. I have tried to look into some of the earlier streaming classes but the links found around the forum are not providing much info and not even a preview of some of the streaming classes on demand. $ 50 is a steep price to be following a class once over the internet at an awkward time for those who isn't in the same time zone (I'm in Denmark). It would be perfectly okay if it's was a live event where I could be there in person and the instructor could give some feedback to your own technique etc.

    I have bought most of the downloads on digital painting but I think the streaming stuff is to expensive considering that you apparently only have one chance to watch it and because it's very hard to judge what you get before you join a streaming class.

    I know my reservations could be based upon lack of or faulty information. Can somebody please describe what is a streaming class. What is the product I'm buying?...

    Nice paintings, by the way...

    Last edited by Ben Locke; April 29th, 2010 at 12:15 PM.
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  5. #33
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    Wow, I'm totally blown away by Zhanglu's work every single time. Absolutely stunning. What a privilege, that he's doing this!

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  6. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Locke View Post
    I completely agree. The topic is fine but what are these streaming classes anyway? I really don't get it. I have tried to look into some of the earlier streaming classes but the links found around the forum are not providing much info and not even a preview of some of the streaming classes on demand. $ 50 is a steep price to be following a class once over the internet at an awkward time for those who isn't in the same time zone (I'm in Denmark). It would be perfectly okay if it's was a live event where I could be there in person and the instructor could give some feedback to your own technique etc.

    I have bought most of the downloads on digital painting but I think the streaming stuff is to expensive considering that you apparently only have one chance to watch it and because it's very hard to judge what you get before you join a streaming class.

    I know my reservations could be based upon lack of or faulty information. Can somebody please describe what is a streaming class. What is the product I'm buying?...

    Nice paintings, by the way...
    Streaming classes are like real classes except they are filmed and streamed over the internet. This allows the instructors to draw or show slides at the same time as they explain and teach the students (us). Alongside the streaming window there is a chatwindow where you can type to alle the students, and the instructors. You can raise your hand to ask questions, type them up or use mic to ask instructors.

    These classes are recorded so that you can watch it later (called on demand). Not only is the instructorswindow recorded, but the chat and everything! Meaning that if you miss out on the class, you can later on watch the on demand as many times as you want for 30 days. This has been my case very often, seeing I work a lot and awkward times for me too (Norway). I feel I have never missed out, because you get to hear the Q&A of the students and instructors on demand too.

    50$ is pretty good price for watching a class as many times as you want for 30 days. Trust me. I haven't once felt ripped off.

    Any more questions just ask here, or via PM

    Chris

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  8. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by hisako View Post
    when do we get to explore the male figure?
    Might be the next class

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  10. #36
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    I really love those female forms, and I very much appreciate this workshop, but I have a very vital question because especially recently I am starting to think that this industry wants me to turn into a lesbian:

    Will there be some workshops for... erm... "honoring the male form" in the future, too?

    I am not speaking about the "safe" zone that I am seeing too often that tries to market men as good as possible and produces even too much art that is horrible, because it "tries" to attend the target group women for instance but horribly fails because, as said, it is only a try because the ones doing it don't believe that men can "sell" well, too. And so they truely all stick to women and give men only a sideview.

    So what about the men? What about people that aren't into girls, and would love to practice painting handsome - not "gay", not strangely "overdone", not "safe zone guys" - but handsome freely expressed manliness I say, handsome guys that really attract all viewers that are into men?

    Yes? No? Will it come sometime this year or the next one? Pleaaase.

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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azurelle View Post
    I really love those female forms, and I very much appreciate this workshop, but I have a very vital question because especially recently I am starting to think that this industry wants me to turn into a lesbian:

    Will there be some workshops for... erm... "honoring the male form" in the future, too?

    I am not speaking about the "safe" zone that I am seeing too often that tries to market men as good as possible and produces even too much art that is horrible, because it "tries" to attend the target group women for instance but horribly fails because, as said, it is only a try because the ones doing it don't believe that men can "sell" well, too. And so they truely all stick to women and give men only a sideview.

    So what about the men? What about people that aren't into girls, and would love to practice painting handsome - not "gay", not strangely "overdone", not "safe zone guys" - but handsome freely expressed manliness I say, handsome guys that really attract all viewers that are into men?

    Yes? No? Will it come sometime this year or the next one? Pleaaase.
    I find this question totally legit! And even though I cannot answer for MB, I can totally see one coming. Just like the downloads, first female portraits, then male. So I guess we should just cross our fingers
    The male body after all, is just as interesting as the female body. (in a non homosexual manner )

    Chris

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  14. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Manley View Post
    A. Zhanglu did the paintings. The class will consist of these images in demonstration form, along with a series of beautiful images from art history and photography to illustrate the major points.
    What kind of major points? And can I assume that demonstration form means he does the buildup much like he did the "faces" download?
    B. We will be discussing everything from structure to anatomy to posing and body language, to methods used to create inner character, idealization, overcoming cliche, and more...We will discuss process, and theory as related to the female figure in order to help artists to better create from life and imagination. Understanding the female form and how to communicate with it, is of the most important things in the field of concept design, illustration, video games, film, and fine art. This is going to be a great class.
    How will structure and anatomy be discussed? Will you give examples on how to simplify the form when drawing the figure by overlaying basic shapes on top of photographs? Or is it a simple referral to hogarth books? Will the anatomy be shown on livemodels as with the anatomy livestream by mr vandruff or is it just on which books to buy?
    E. We have some beautiful things coming. I updated the thread with some examples of the works I will be discussing, along with the video demonstrations.
    thank you.
    F. At time Zhanglu will gather reference for things like hands, or feet, or a particular face. Other times he works from imagination purely. I will ask for some ref, if he still has it.
    So this is like the previous one where he worked without a livemodel?
    Am I wrong to assume this isn't analytical modeldrawing then?
    You know, how to cope with a moving model, how to measure, check proportions and alike?

    And is it analytical, constructional or visual figuredrawing he will explain?

    Cheers.

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  15. #39
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    There will be a variety of topics covered Hyskoa. There will be no live models present however. I am using a beautiful batch of artwork, professional photographs, and the video demonstrations I had ZhangLu create specifically for this class. We are discussing the female form, expression, body language, anatomical suggestion, idealization, and many more important areas of art theory as related to creating impactful images.

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  16. #40
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    That is on the list of classes to cover. Most certainly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Azurelle View Post
    I really love those female forms, and I very much appreciate this workshop, but I have a very vital question because especially recently I am starting to think that this industry wants me to turn into a lesbian:

    Will there be some workshops for... erm... "honoring the male form" in the future, too?

    I am not speaking about the "safe" zone that I am seeing too often that tries to market men as good as possible and produces even too much art that is horrible, because it "tries" to attend the target group women for instance but horribly fails because, as said, it is only a try because the ones doing it don't believe that men can "sell" well, too. And so they truely all stick to women and give men only a sideview.

    So what about the men? What about people that aren't into girls, and would love to practice painting handsome - not "gay", not strangely "overdone", not "safe zone guys" - but handsome freely expressed manliness I say, handsome guys that really attract all viewers that are into men?

    Yes? No? Will it come sometime this year or the next one? Pleaaase.


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  18. #41
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    From what I've seen of Zhanglu's male figures, he handles them just as beautifully as his females. I would absolutely love to see male versions of these kinds of portraits.

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  20. #42
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    wow guys! awezome!

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  21. #43
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    This is exactly what I want! But I don't know if I can do the $50.00 fee for this.
    Plus, I'll be pretty busy during this weekend, and this would likely be something I'd want to reference not just this month, but throughout the year or more.

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  22. #44
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    How relevant would the workshop be to someone like me who still works in traditional media and has no plans to go digital?

    Thanks,
    Lindsay

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  23. #45
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    Just paid for the class ^_^ See you all there!

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  24. #46
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    Alright, I'll be there :]

    I'm curious though, will Zhang Lu be painting live and participate directly? or is it going to be discussion on painting's pre recorded? (e.g. the ones on the first page of this thread)

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  25. #47
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    Ah sadly I am gonna work some overtime on Sunday to save for going back to art school so no real time for me But I think I am gonna pay so I can check out the stream. Purchased the two Zhang downloads the other night, and just watched the female one tonight, such good insight on ways of thinking about more than just the looks of the female / model, but also the attitude or swagger that the person radiates. Good stuff as usual, got me thinking. Gonna paint now and see what I can do. I suggest buying the Zhang downloads, very cheap, and the info priceless.

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  26. #48
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Manley View Post
    That is on the list of classes to cover. Most certainly.
    (referring to male form workshop)

    Thank you Jason for quoting me!

    These online classes seem to be very afordable, so I will keep my eyes open and my fingers crossed for one on men to come, too.

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  27. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Locke View Post
    I completely agree. The topic is fine but what are these streaming classes anyway? I really don't get it. I have tried to look into some of the earlier streaming classes but the links found around the forum are not providing much info and not even a preview of some of the streaming classes on demand. $ 50 is a steep price to be following a class once over the internet at an awkward time for those who isn't in the same time zone (I'm in Denmark). It would be perfectly okay if it's was a live event where I could be there in person and the instructor could give some feedback to your own technique etc.

    I have bought most of the downloads on digital painting but I think the streaming stuff is to expensive considering that you apparently only have one chance to watch it and because it's very hard to judge what you get before you join a streaming class.

    I know my reservations could be based upon lack of or faulty information. Can somebody please describe what is a streaming class. What is the product I'm buying?...

    Nice paintings, by the way...
    ON DEMAND Means watch it as much as you want. Even for more than 30 days. we still have content up and running from last July. so most of it we don't take down. and 50 dollars is discounted form the regular price of 95 bucks. We are in the middle of putting up a FREE look where you can see what the software that TAD will be built on looks and operates like. but this class is a great chance to just jump in with two feet and try something new!
    Not to mention being able to communicate LIVE with your instructor and ask questions.

    Scooter

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  29. #50
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    Oh man, I loved the Manley/Zhanglu female portraiture video. Those teaser images look spectacular. I really want to attend this class, but don't think I can drop the cash right now...

    On the bright side...that's because I just signed up for a figure drawing class in May. So at least it's not a total loss I guess.

    Who know's though...maybe I'll splurge and treat myself to a nice Sunday of art.

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  30. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConceptArt.Org View Post
    ON DEMAND Means watch it as much as you want. Even for more than 30 days. we still have content up and running from last July. so most of it we don't take down. and 50 dollars is discounted form the regular price of 95 bucks. We are in the middle of putting up a FREE look where you can see what the software that TAD will be built on looks and operates like. but this class is a great chance to just jump in with two feet and try something new!
    Not to mention being able to communicate LIVE with your instructor and ask questions.

    Scooter
    Thanks Scooter for answering too I´m also a little relieved. Still got many of the Discovery classes to get through!

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  32. #52
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    @ Hive mind and all: Does anyone know, how I can record the "recorded Stream"?

    Will the streaming be via Flash? In which resolution will it be provided? (How fast do I have to be able to download (kbit / second)?

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  33. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by soros View Post
    @ Hive mind and all: Does anyone know, how I can record the "recorded Stream"?

    Will the streaming be via Flash? In which resolution will it be provided? (How fast do I have to be able to download (kbit / second)?
    There are ways to record your screen, but I am not sure of the legal rights on doing this... So Scooter or someone else from MB is going to have to answer you on that one. I think that if they wanted you to keep this, they would have sold it as a download, not as a class! I doubt you take a camera with you too school to record what the teacher says -but like I said, MB -guys gonna have to answer that part

    Resolution... hmm entire screen, though you can resize smaller or bigger. I´ve tried it on my iMac, and laptop never had any problems.
    Not too sure about the internet specifics, but I´m in Norway, using wireless internet. Still haven´t had any problems with connection.

    Chris

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  34. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by LPBaker View Post
    How relevant would the workshop be to someone like me who still works in traditional media and has no plans to go digital?

    Thanks,
    Lindsay
    Very. The theory that they'll be covering applies to all media. Of course, you won't get as much out of watching Zhanglu's digital process, but I have every reson to believe (from the description and from previous experience with classes and downloads, including both Manley/Zhanglu collaborations) that the focus will NOT be on medium-specific technique.

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  36. #55
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    damn it ! i'm in tunisia, i can't pay anything with local money.
    this is unfair

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  37. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConceptArt.Org View Post
    ON DEMAND Means watch it as much as you want. Even for more than 30 days. we still have content up and running from last July. so most of it we don't take down.
    Scooter
    Yay! Thanks Scooter, it was a toss up between this and food for the rest of the month...so hopefully it will still be On Demand by 25th May when I get paid?

    I vote for a good man study too most life models seem to be women, I need to practice my male anatomy.

    zou Bummer! Does that mean you can't get any of the downloads either?

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  38. #57
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    On demand!

    soros-

    The idea of on demand delivery is to keep people from recording the content!

    The on demand classes make a lot of sense, they offer great content, an inexpensive price, the ability to communicate with the instructors and there is no limitations on how often you can view them. Plus the technology provider Elluminate offers a great product, it creates a classroom environment and allows much more flexibility than a recorded download!

    I hope you give the new on demand classes a chance, they are excellent!

    John

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  40. #58
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    Might be, that the streaming is a possibility to share questions DURING the session. But that doesn't count for streaming AFTER the live session. Let the customer decide, what he wants. If you start a poll here, everyone or I bet 80 percent minumum would vote for a DOWNLOAD instead of a possibility to RELOAD it again via Streaming. (the idea to force the customer had never worked - even apples iTunes had to change to sell to a bigger market)

    I would have bought it also as a download and after the live session you'll sell better. No one knows, how long your server and even the company who shares the streaming will be alive and make sure that the content will be available via streaming. That's my humble opinion. Blame me if you want for not respecting the wish of "keeping the recording away". The fear behind that won't push your sales. If you decide to sell it as a download, let me know or add it to the shop. Maybe I'll see a commercial part of the video on youtube and buy it in the shop, but definitely NOT as a stream (I am sleeping during the time of the live session).

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  42. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConceptArt.Org View Post
    and 50 dollars is discounted form the regular price of 95 bucks.

    Scooter
    And how long will the discount last ? Is it for those only who buy it before the live ?

    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soros View Post
    Might be, that the streaming is a possibility to share questions DURING the session. But that doesn't count for streaming AFTER the live session. Let the customer decide, what he wants. If you start a poll here, everyone or I bet 80 percent minumum would vote for a DOWNLOAD instead of a possibility to RELOAD it again via Streaming. (the idea to force the customer had never worked - even apples iTunes had to change to sell to a bigger market)

    I would have bought it also as a download and after the live session you'll sell better. No one knows, how long your server and even the company who shares the streaming will be alive and make sure that the content will be available via streaming. That's my humble opinion. Blame me if you want for not respecting the wish of "keeping the recording away". The fear behind that won't push your sales. If you decide to sell it as a download, let me know or add it to the shop. Maybe I'll see a commercial part of the video on youtube and buy it in the shop, but definitely NOT as a stream (I am sleeping during the time of the live session).
    First off I want to say: MB is not trying to force anyone. I do not see where you get that from. If they were, they would have cut out the downloads entirely, which they haven´t so that does not apply.

    Now to the rest:
    I shared your concerns too before, but the fact is you get much more info via streaming class than download. And that comes from me, who has busted my ass at work to be able to purchase almost every download MB has sold. And I do not regret it. But these streaming classes are way more packed than the downloads.
    And if your only concern is that you wont be there live, and feel you will be missing out: I have only attended one class live, Jon Foster on illustrating a book cover, the rest I have watched lateron, on demand. - and I have never felt like I have missed out. Because you get to see all the Q&A of the others that were there live. And you learn tons.

    Now, if MB was still using the older streaming software which they started off with, then I would most likely have kept my mouth shut, but the fact is, the software they are using now is... something else.

    Obviously it is your choice, but seeing you have not even given it a chance, I feel a certain need to share my own insight in the matter. But now it is all out. Any more questions, it is just to ask.

    Chris

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