Fantasy Concept Trial
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  1. #1
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    Fantasy Concept Trial

    Trying to step out of my regular illustration storybook looking box, so I decided to fiddle around with RPG/FF/concept-y art stuff tonight.

    I'm not used to natural proportions (woops enormous heads all the time).

    I'd love some anatomical help on this one, I've become so lazy!

    ***Updated the first picture with the most current one

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    Last edited by kadianimation; March 26th, 2010 at 02:49 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Arms look a little long- large part due to her forearm length. You might want to move the elbow up a slight smidge. Elbows meet around the bottom of the rib cage (when hands are at side) and wrist meets around crotch.

    She also has no hips, but this is personal preference. I live in Richmond VA, town of the emaciated, so I understand.

    Keep this around: http://www.idrawdigital.com/wp-conte...rop_female.gif

    I can't tell if the head is a little large, or if it fits the age she looks.

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  3. #3
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    Moved her knee down a bit to make up for her hip tilt, moved up the staff and shortened her arms a bit.

    For laughs, here's the original design that I drew about 6 or 7 months ago.



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    Sorry for the double post but woo there is now a man.

    Edit: Two men and a chick!

    Last edited by kadianimation; March 24th, 2010 at 11:41 PM.
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    Another gallll-- I have several more characters, then I'll get on to working on some creatures (oh dear)

    Last edited by kadianimation; March 25th, 2010 at 04:22 AM.
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    Updated line-- I think that's it for people and stuff for the time being? Now I need to figure out how I want to finish this...

    Last edited by kadianimation; March 25th, 2010 at 05:01 PM.
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    I definitely like to see where this project goes, but I think you might want to increase the vertical canvas size when you do more characters.

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    I chose to do inking rather than try to paint them-- I do depend heavily on lining and since these are for a portfolio I'd rather do these in a medium that I am used to for hopefully the best quality I can do.

    I don't really know HOW to paint and all I do is beat my head against my computer when I try-- which is not helpful when I want to send this out at the end of the week.

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    Lines are go!

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    Still need to shade the clothing but first one is almost done!

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    Wow I really love all of this! Keep it up!

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    Thanks!!!



    And the first one is done.

    Is it just me or does this look like I know what I am doing.

    I do not know what I am doing I usually draw like this:



    WHICH ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO BEING ALIKE.

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  13. #13
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    It does look good, but I don't feel like your pushing the shadows far enough. If you can push your values further outside that safe neutral pale area I thikn you'll end up with far more dramatic and dynamic looking characters.

    Also, this is just a personal preference, but I can't stand seeing chars on white backdrops in digital format. On paper it's fine, but when viewed digitally, all that white space is active light, and i feel it's brightness interferes with the viewers ability to properly judge the values in the piece. I personally prefer to see a mid-tone grey, or beige.

    Keep it up though, looking forward to more.

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    Clavis' lines-- will update Ebony after I finish him!

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    I don't quite get Ebony's staff geometry. It's nice and 3-D looking on the right side but as I go to the left I kinda lose the feeling of which side is which.
    Clavis hair make him look like he has hydrocephalus. If you want to keep this BIG hair on him, make it look as if it goes from his skull below, up, and then fall, and not like now, when it looks fairly short and going down from the skull's top. I don't know whether I make any sense...

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    Poses naturally look boring and unprofessional if they're not turned at the middle. That's what gives your character a little action. Also - maybe it's just me - but I really don't like the sort of legs you do. I gfave you an example of an overdraw. With a broader chest and a turned pose.



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    I don't really understand what you mean by "unprofessional"? I don't really see how torquing her body so that her hips are directly in the front when her shoulders are on another perspective is a good idea?

    I'd just like to know what you mean, i'm rather confused? And what exactly is wrong with how I draw legs? I honestly want to know, but your sketchover is um. Extremely chunky? And in a completely different bodily style than what I was going for so I am left here going hmm, and not knowing what you mean.



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  18. #18
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    I'm not saying that you pictures are unprofessional. Since this is the part where users like to get critique, and you postet in here, I mentioned my points to help you getting better.

    If you draw character artworks, not a comic or animation, you have to put everything possible about the characters personality into one picture. This includes an interesting, dynamic pose. If a character is standing straight, he gives the viewer exactly such an impression of his personality. I don't find your characters unprofessional, however they could look more dynamic, the more they wrench and bend. This could be, like in my example, a front sight of the legs, but a 3/4 sight of torso. For example: If you take a look at character designs from magna carta or any beat em up of your choice, you will hardly find any character posing in a normal straight direction with his whole body. Most of them are even "over-wrenched" (or even including a fish eye perspective making it even more dynamic). If you want to show only the outfit, you would draw the characters straight, from every side. If you draw a character artwork, you express the characters personality by a movement action, saved in the moment, you are drawing it.

    About the chunky legs:
    It's an overdrawing for proportions and pose, not for weight. Also its done by brush strokes with about 20 times stronger lines than your inc lines.
    It's up to you how broad you make agirls chest. In this point, as said, I'm talking about taste, not facts. I don't like small chests, especially on girls or women. They have broad chests, in a much bigger contrast to torso than men. Also I love to show the space between the legs. Almost every character gets his special note by this space - in my opinion -. It stables the pose, and even looks cool

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    I disagree with Swamp Thing. I love the way you stylize your characters and I think her pose is very natural. Bending it so her pelvis is facing the viewer just looks awkward in my opinion. And the way Swamp Thing drew out her legs look like she has elephantitis or something. It wouldn't be very interesting if every woman had a broad chest and huge thighs; its nice to have different body types.

    I love what you're doing, so keep it up!

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    Here you go
    I really don't get your problem, differenting proportion from weight.

    Of course not every woman has a broad chest. However there are no woman out there, that would earn fame for man legs and men chests. Maybe it's the gender problem. Women tend to look thin and androgynouse, while man tend to like woman with female attributes. That's natures mistake, born when mankind started trying to look like what they love.
    Also, did you ever imagine, how boring it'd be, if every body had puppet faces like the most anime characters, only distinguishable through their hair and haircolors?

    Last edited by Swamp Thing; March 29th, 2010 at 07:02 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilWhiteRabbit View Post
    I disagree with Swamp Thing. I love the way you stylize your characters and I think her pose is very natural. Bending it so her pelvis is facing the viewer just looks awkward in my opinion. And the way Swamp Thing drew out her legs look like she has elephantitis or something. It wouldn't be very interesting if every woman had a broad chest and huge thighs; its nice to have different body types.

    I love what you're doing, so keep it up!
    I agree,I like the original legs.They look natural.Everyone has his or her own artsyle.I think they look upright and the artwork looks good.

    Keep it up.

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    I have but one remark about the character in the first post: her ear looks like it's been taken from a head drawn from the side, when her head's drawn from the front. It may just be me, but I think it stands out as a very weird anatomy quirk.

    (As a side note: I'm d'awwwwwing again and again at the second picture in post #12)

    Take my advice with a grain of salt, I don't exactly have an artistic background (I'm an engineer).
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  23. #23
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    @ Swamp thing: That space between the legs thing is a horrible misconception, not to mention it's far too wide in your picture. Only very skinny girls have such a wide space between their legs, to the point of it not being pretty anymore. Considering that this picture was drawn from a slight angle, there should really be no space between the legs and I find the turning of the hips to be a bad idea. This gives the body a very awkward and unnatural looking twist to it that no normal human being would make.

    I agree that her hips are small, but some women simply have small hips and I think it really suits the style.

    @ TS: I'll have to agree with pretty much everything else that's been said. You could probably push the values a bit in most of your pictures, but besides that I'm really enjoying your art .

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    The distance between the legs depends on the size / broadness of the chest, not weight.

    Since it is hard to do a overpaint on a character, which already has been formed, and I hardly find time to invest enough work to proof what wrenched angles help on character designs, I decided to show a very suitable example for leg space, perspective and wrenched body (and how far your body is able to turn without looking unnatural):


    (Source Image - Magna Carta)

    For a closer explanation, what I really seek to make you notice.
    That is, where kadis Character Designs (in position and style) are somehow tending to:

    http://www.videogamegirlsdb.com/game...ptArt_SCIV.jpg
    (Source Image - Soul Calibur)

    What you see in this picture, is her calm facial expression (giving the viewer an idea of the persons behaviour). The pose, indeed, is farmilar to the artworks above. It's showing no action, no turned or wrenched body. That is confirming to her mimic, together it want's to say: This character is calm, silent and easy going.

    What made me think of giving my suggestion (again, please consider, it was only a suggestion, not imposed. That's what this part of the board is made for.).:
    Both characters almost have the same ancle in a straight unwrenched pose. There is not much happening, they are just standing there. So I pointed that out. It's just like I got this feeling, many possible varieties of poses are unconsidered. It would be boring, if all the next characters too have the same ancle without taking action. varying poses give various impressions and various ideas of a characters personality. So I gave an idea what other possible poses could work out fine. Could make it look dynamic and more expressive.

    Last edited by Swamp Thing; March 29th, 2010 at 07:16 PM.
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  25. #25
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    Just sort of trying to finish these off first so that the lineup is done before going back and messing with values-- completely going to though!



    Hey it's a chick with hips!

    Man, Magna Carta is probably not the best material to source from-- it has really wonky anatomy issues and I'm really trying to do these with anatomy in mind.

    The other lineup I'm working on is as far as you can probably get from what I've been posting here, lol. While working on that one, I got a lot of flak for Rajani's nose



    She's NOT a cookie cutter face, but because she has an odd nose, it's a hit and a miss with people.

    I agree, a lot of the time dynamic poses are the way to go, but this is a stationary lineup, so I'm leaning towards keeping the lineup in standing poses atm. Once I finish, I want to go and do dynamic ones, but they don't belong in a lineup-- lineups are meant to show design and height etc etc, and while yes, they should show character Ebony Black is based on Snow White, so she is really in character with her non- aggressive posing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swamp Thing View Post
    I decided to show a very suitable example for leg space, perspective and wrenched body (and how far your body is able to turn without looking unnatural):


    (Source Image - Magna Carta)
    ...What?

    I'm sorry, but referencing HTK for proper anatomy/proportions or saying that they look in any way natural is way, way, waaaay off. The anatomy on that image is wrong in so many ways. HTK is a Rendersaurus Rex and I give him huge kudos for his colors, but when talking about proper anatomy and proportion you might as well start throwing up Rob Liefeld if you're going to throw up HTK.

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    Swamp Thing- First off, I believe you mean "pelvis width", not chest width. Second, the space between the legs in Actual Anatomy, not Fantasy Female Anatomy, is almost ENTIRELY dependent on the girl's weight. Take my friend and me, for example: Identical height, but she has broader hips by about 3 inches (I have man hips, sadly) and weighs only about 20 lbs more than me. According to you, she should have a larger space between her legs. Well, hate to tell you this, but she has NO space between her legs, while I have a somewhat apparent one (not nearly as wide as your drawing, however... because that amount of space is reserved for the anorexic and emaciated).

    Also, I believe Kadi is going more for the feel of this sort of image:


    It gives the feel of the character, without being "overdone". There's a difference in intent, here: You're showing the character as they are, just hanging out, rather than showing them in an extraordinary situation. I get the feeling that what's-her-face from Magna Carta is about to start casting some fancy spell, honestly; that's not how she would just stand around.

    As for everything so far, I'm really liking it. It gives me sort of an Eternal Sonata feel, all sweet and calm. I agree that you need a bit more contrast with your values, though.

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  29. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mock View Post
    ...What?

    I'm sorry, but referencing HTK for proper anatomy/proportions or saying that they look in any way natural is way, way, waaaay off. The anatomy on that image is wrong in so many ways. HTK is a Rendersaurus Rex and I give him huge kudos for his colors, but when talking about proper anatomy and proportion you might as well start throwing up Rob Liefeld if you're going to throw up HTK.
    Thank you, and shuzuko. Explained my points better than I could .

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    Sorry, but this discussion is not leading anywhere if you don't try to read my points and give them a chance, instead of finding arguments to contradict me.

    About Hyung Taekim:

    He uses working proportions, and he also seems to be tired of normal angles, that's why his artworks have curved angles. In my example, it's fisheye + below shot. That is not only explaining the larger legs, but also the curve in her thighs. In this case, I wouldn't say they're "way, way, waaaay off" - they're just very close to the limit. Also keep in mind, that proportions mostly for character artworks use other rules, as long as it is not a nude drawing or anything. That includes overstatet body parts and crazy wrenches for the recall value. Also maybe it would have been better to not talk about proportions but symmetry. Stable builds are in my opinion more important than anything else.

    About Nomura:

    I really respect his art. BUT... The artworks for Final Fantasy 7 are old and outdatet. But still, if you look at the other character artworks of final fantasy 7, you will see different angles. In this thread, you will not. I don't really get what you mean by overdone. I mean, another pose ot another angle doesn't mean its overdone. I never sayed its better to use fisheye perspective or whatever. Bending and wrenching indeed is a nice way for another pose. I don't know how many times I told, it was a suggestion. If you post characters in critique center having always the same angle, it's hard for me to not point out possible other angles and poses...

    There is a difference between character artwork and character development. Character development is mostly the way to show modellers a figure they can render, pull on planes and generate. Classic way is a T pose backside and front side, or even more. Character Artworks are ending products. You try to express as much personality through pose, facial expression and angle, as you are able to. At least, this is a modern idea, I'm aggreing with.

    About Leg Space:

    Okay, I'm willing to admit, that I was wrong with that. Fatness (or better said, leg scales) indeed is a factor for leg space. But still, the width is the other decisive factor for it. However, characters drawn here and mostly over all, have thin legs. Btw I'm a man with common small pelvis, but still have about 2 inches space leg (No, I'm not looking like a duck when i walk)

    About my english: I can't say often enough, how hard every explanation is for me, since english is not my home language. I hope, things like pelvis/chest aren't crucial for missunderstanding my messages.

    Last edited by Swamp Thing; March 30th, 2010 at 06:22 AM.
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