what is todays punk rock

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    what is todays punk rock

    what are your thoughts on today's punk rock? what makes them what they are and how they look. what separates them from yester years punks.

    post your thoughts and images if you have them.

    jon

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    Punk was about rebellion, not submission. It was about hate, not love. It was about society (in general with few exceptions like the Dead Milkmen).

    The Punk of the yesteryear were The Sex Pistols, The Misfits, The Ramones, The Clash, The Undead, The Beastie Boys, Black Flag, etc. They began underground and roared and sang about all the rage and hate of the world they came from; the blue collars and the dropouts. they didn't give a shit what anyone thought, they hated authority; left or right.

    But that's my opinion.

    Edit:

    And, judging solely on sound, there is a good number of Punk-inspired bands, but you get a 50/50 on them being 'real' or not. Of course, in the late 70's and early 80's you had posers and fakes and schmoozers also, but not in the mainstream mindset of punk. Avril Lavigne calls herself 'punk'. She's not. She sings about boys and other poppy crap.

    The Strokes didn't call themselves punk, but clearly had their influence from the more up-tempo Misfits-styleset (Barely Legal springs to mind). Listen to the song She (about Patty Hearst) by the Misfits and you'll hear it.

    Then there's Jet, the Hives... Today Punk is more of an influenced sound then a philosophy like it was.

    Last edited by Devilock138; February 11th, 2004 at 12:19 PM.
    "They were born, they grew up in the gutters, they went to work at twelve, they passed through a brief blossoming period of beauty and sexual desire, they married at twenty, they were middle-aged at thirty, they died, for the most part, at sixty. Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer, and, above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their minds."

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    Sadly, There are no REAL punk rock bands anymore.

    Even bands like RANCID, Bad Religion, Dropkick Murphys, etc. have "cashed-in" rather than "sell-out". That's OK, I don't have a problem with them cashing-in because they still put out quality music (sans the commercial crap song or two they have to put on the CD to get airtime).

    But, it shows that the True Punks who don't really give a flying monkey's ass what the record labels want are a dying breed.

    edit: AMEN to what Devilock wrote.

    To be nobody-but-yourself -- in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else -- means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting.
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    Originally posted by RONIN


    Even bands like RANCID...
    I like Billy's new band: the Transplants.

    "They were born, they grew up in the gutters, they went to work at twelve, they passed through a brief blossoming period of beauty and sexual desire, they married at twenty, they were middle-aged at thirty, they died, for the most part, at sixty. Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer, and, above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their minds."

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    I don't like punkrock at all.
    The riffs are always the same, pretty annoying high sounds.
    The vocals mostly sound like a mice that tries to reach an elephant's ear.
    Well, I referred to "classic" punk rock.
    But also the sound of skater-punk is just... disturbing, annoying, I don't like it

    I think the problem is that punk rock didn't really evolve.
    Ok, we have the same with rock at the moment - there are a lot of retro bands.

    But rock was already nice when it was "invented"... I guess I just don't like the whole punk scene - in Germany, I have to say.

    German punks are like this:
    They don't work, because they can live by our welfare state -
    But they always grumble about our government!

    They like their primitve behavior and always talk about not behaving like the society wants it -
    But at the same time, they try to teach everyone about politics

    That leads to problem nr.3 - you can't talk about other topics than politics or drinking with punks.

    They don't like police -
    Without police, every non-punk would bash their brains out of their heads

    I had many friends in the punk-alternative scene, but I quit to meet them - Just because they always hate something and are always loud and always talking about how they hate "the system"
    They should be thankful to live in such a system instead of starving in Africa. Hard but true.

    Jet, The Hives, The Strokes? No, that's rock/beat.
    Faaar away from punk.

    cu

    p.s.: I think the american "punk" is very different to the europe...

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    Originally posted by cucaracha

    Jet, The Hives, The Strokes? No, that's rock/beat.
    Faaar away from punk.
    Its not a matter of opinion. Compare Jet and the Hives to the Sex Pistols and its obvious. Its the same formula.

    "They were born, they grew up in the gutters, they went to work at twelve, they passed through a brief blossoming period of beauty and sexual desire, they married at twenty, they were middle-aged at thirty, they died, for the most part, at sixty. Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer, and, above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their minds."

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    Ok, the riffs and stuff may be similar.

    But the annoying thing about punk-rock -
    uber-screeky voices, dirty-rat-rancid lifestyle and all the stuff I mentioned is not included

    plus rock/beat is melodic

    cu

    edit: I agree with you about the Hives. They're heavily influenced

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    From studying the history of the Punk movement, I've determined that Punk officially "died" or was "near death" in '78-'79 or so when it all started to become commercialized and lame self-parody. Before that, it was all about rebelling against the strain...but then it became more like any other genre of music with its own bullshit in tow.

    Fortunately, there were several groups that managed to keep the spirit alive for a period of time, but the Punk "scene" was pretty much dead by '79 as all the pretentious desperately-trying-to-rebel idiots who had been exposed to Punk secondhand flooded the scene, chasing off all the old-skool punks.

    Punk has since managed to stagger from its grave in various oft-commercialized homunculus forms, but has never been quite the same.
    That's not to say that there aren't bands out there fighting the good fight; just that punk really is dead.

    Art student
    ~Livin' large at Watts Atelier.
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    word.

    desperately-trying-to-rebel idiots
    Germany is full of those guys. Well, not full, but still too much.

    Ever tried to talk with such a guy like "shhh it's over, you don't need to rebel, calm down, get a life please..."?

    cu

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    A bunch of guys scream about how their lives suck and why the system has to come down while they get cash from that same system... :confused:


    I just ignore the ideology behind the music and go for the actual thing. If the music is good, I will listen, and if not, I won't. The artist's opinion doesn't matter to me. They are there to entertain me, not teach me.

    And cucaracha I know what you mean about the punk fools in Germany. So sad.

    I saw this teenage couple walking from a store one day. The girl was dragging a raggedy backpack behind her, and both were dressed up all punk style with shitty dyed hair and piercings and all, and then they were carrying a big case of beer between them to boot. I mean, come on! Is that how you rebel against the system?


    Es fließt durch meine Venen, Es schläft in meinen Tränen
    Es läuft mir aus den Ohren, Herz und Nieren sind Motoren

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    I like Billy's new band: the Transplants.
    Just heard a song from them for the first time and I thought it was pretty cool, need to hear more.

    I listen to ALL kinds of music (except Country - can't stomach that for some reason) And I like a lot of the new bands like the White Stripes, Jet, etc. Those bands also acknowledge that they are not the "originators" of the sound. I used to skate to Agent Orange, 7 Seconds, etc. and Yeah they sound similar but when you get in a groove who wants to break that.

    Bands are at their best when they are young, pissed off and have something to say.

    To be nobody-but-yourself -- in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else -- means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting.
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    a can of worms has been opened! this is almost like the "what is art?" discussion

    I think "punk" is a title that people slap onto music nowadays, and doesn't fit well at all. it categorizes the sound, but like devilock says, it started off on ideology, and the sound was a byproduct of it. the bands now that are trying to get that sound are digging into what's been done and making their own interpretations of it. There's been a resurgence of the fashion, and there's a quite a few crappy bands now playing pop with punk attitude. It's the same as a lot of rap groups now, (puff daddy comes to mind), where style overrides substance. The kids that go to extremes to piss people off and look like homeless clowns aren't being original, they're just copying what was done many years before. these kids are often just wanting attention.

    But, it's still alive, and there are still people more into the idea of it than the look of it. i think punk is more about spirit and ethos than it is about sound. The Clash, hailed as one of the best bands to exist, probably my favorite band, was still considered punk in their later years, when they were doing some completely off the wall shit. Rap, reggae, waltzes, they just loved exploring music. What kept them "punk" was that they were doing it for themselves, and were doing things that went against the grain of what was expected. They were on a major label, but they forgoed the royalties to have a triple record cost the same as a single, for the fans. There are bands today that are breaking their backs just to share music with likeminded people, doing their own thing without a care who says they're "punk" or not.

    It's a very tricky thing, because the word "punk" signifies a change/rebellion to the norm, but it also categorizes a time period and a sound of music as well. I think this is where all the arguments come from, because it's such a blanket statement.

    yeah, i typed a lot.

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    punk rock is a pretty funny and sensitive word to a lot of people.. specifically those who believe that they might have fallen into that catigory at some point in there lives..
    its funny to me now when i think about the concept of a person being strictly defined by the kind of music they listen to.. i guess i felt that way when i was younger,, but i believed it was more of a lifestyle than a catigory..

    i personally think that punk rock in its purest form has no quantifiable properties or rules.. it doesnt have to be about anything in partictular even.. it was something unexplainable that happened in the 70's and on into the 80's in my opinion.
    it was like a chemical reaction that spread without bias.
    rock and roll was being strangled by disco and feel good ballads which caused a feeling of unrest in the youth.. it was a generations extreme answer to the lack of intensity around them..

    when punk was new there was no recipe.. some would disagree but i think it got even more interesting when it got to america.. you would have bands like the Minutemen playing shows with DK or mission of Burma. everyone was feeding off eachother and taking things in completely different directions.. but just like anything good in a capitalistic society we will find a way to clone it mass reproduce it and sell it thus draining it of its origionality and quality.. it makes me Nausious now when i hear bands do "punk" covers from other generas of music,, and all they do is speed up the tempo.. its like self mockery and they dont even realize it.

    i dont neccesarily think punk is dead,, but if you look in a record store under the catigory "punk",, you will most likely find pop...
    its really more of a vehicle for fashion now than anything in my opinion.

    i believe punk is still around in spirit.. i catch a hint of it every now and then when i go to shows.. it may not come back with the same face but it was solely the energy that defined it in the first place.. i think the gross degridation in the force fed garbage the younger generation is being bombarded with could easily bring about something similar..


    -LOno

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    well said, lono. and I totally agree with you on the senstivity of the word, I mean, shit... I would have fought people over it when i was younger.

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    Originally posted by dfacto
    I just ignore the ideology behind the music and go for the actual thing. If the music is good, I will listen, and if not, I won't. The artist's opinion doesn't matter to me. They are there to entertain me, not teach me.
    Word. I hate it when people try to drag ideologies along with musical styles. I listen to lots of blackmetal type stuff. But I sure as hell don't follow their "ideologies" or care about what they have to say. I just like the friggen music.

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    cotron: yah,, you and me must have posted at the same time because we said a lot of the same stuff and i dont remember reading your post before i started typing..
    i think we are on the same page man.

    :beer:

    -Lono

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    one more thought on the subject..
    our generation seems to be obsessed with resurecting and recycling things from the past with only a minor ammount of innovation.. even the big trash rock thing thats happening right now is completely derivitive of the stooges and the stones,, etc.. i think for something to even come close to the raw energy and spirit of punk rock its going to have to shatter that pattern and break all the new standards of this generation.. if you go to enough shows and stay in good touch with the underground music scene you will see occasional instances of this.. all it would take is a little momentum and people might start challenging themselves again.. who knows what might happen?

    -Lono

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    I don't care if anyone "cashed in" or "sold out". If I like their music, i'll listen to it anyway. I just tend to like punk rock better then other things. I like some songs outside of punk rock, so I'm not one of those dumbasses who only listen to 1 genre just becuase they want to be dedicated.

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    ahh, a subject dear to my heart...lets see if i can get some semi-coherant words out here...

    lets look at the original definition of the word "punk"
    Punk: somone in prison who sucks dick or some other form of sexual favor for cigarettes"

    HA! now who the fuck would want to be associated with THAT term?? basically is was big FUCK YOU! to the masses from the rejects and disillusioned youth of the late 70's and early 80's. you think of me as trash? fine, im trash, but im not gonna just lay down and take it like you want me to.
    rebelion! chaos! ANARCHY!!
    all catch phrases associated with the term punk. it was a natural progression from the early days of rock i think.
    the hippies wanted peace and love, the punks wanted CHANGE! complacency wasnt an option. it gave alot of youth something to believe in, something to grab onto and make it their own. thats why you got the crazy hair, wierd styles and all around rejection of anything normal. but, as with any cultural movement, things strayed fromt he original ideals and you had your "posers". i dont care what it is, youre always gonna have people tagging along because its the next best thing, punk was no different.
    its kinda come full circle now, except, now, the majority of "punk" kids dont know where it all came from. very few take the time to learn the history of what it is they say they are. (maybe im old school, but, but that just seems ludicrous to me) i think punk, as a music style, is bigger now than it has ever been before. that is to say: bands that are coined as punk are being played on the radio, and on TV ALOT. and i dont see that changing anytime soon. i dont think punk music will ever be able to go back underground, its been changed permanently. there are very few bands who still stick to the ideals of punk, and they arent all the cookie cutter, tripple beat punk band everyone thinks of now when you mention punk. bands like fugazi come to mind...(theres really too many to mention here) i think another good example of an old school punk is henry rollins, he lets his voice be heard, but he doesnt look like a "punk", it was never meant to be just a fashion statement. its become one again. that being said...im gonna die with my leather on, NO one is gonna take my baby away
    i still listen to my favorite bands, and ive seen them change too, but like what was mentioned before, if it sounds good, i listen to it. there arent many newer bands worth listening to tho.
    i think punk is more of a lifestyle too, its not following something just cuz someone tells you to. its thinking for yourself, making your own way, keeping your eyes open and not accepting things as they are. theres always room for change.
    and to answer fosters question on what makes the new generation different, i think the only thing theyre rebelling against is curfews and mommy and daddy not giving them enough allowance....

    punk is cool now...it never was when I was a kid.

    Last edited by Skank; February 11th, 2004 at 04:54 PM.
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    Originally posted by Lono
    one more thought on the subject..
    our generation seems to be obsessed with resurecting and recycling things from the past with only a minor ammount of innovation.. even the big trash rock thing thats happening right now is completely derivitive of the stooges and the stones,, etc.. i think for something to even come close to the raw energy and spirit of punk rock its going to have to shatter that pattern and break all the new standards of this generation.. if you go to enough shows and stay in good touch with the underground music scene you will see occasional instances of this.. all it would take is a little momentum and people might start challenging themselves again.. who knows what might happen?

    -Lono
    cant believe i didnt say anything about this..lol
    DEFINATELY! true punk rock can be found in almost any local scene....where there is discontent, there is punk rock, and theres discontent EVERYwhere.

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    Originally posted by Skank

    the hippies wanted peace and love, the punks wanted CHANGE! complacency wasnt an option. it gave alot of youth something to believe in, something to grab onto and make it their own.
    You said what I couldn't articulate right there.

    "They were born, they grew up in the gutters, they went to work at twelve, they passed through a brief blossoming period of beauty and sexual desire, they married at twenty, they were middle-aged at thirty, they died, for the most part, at sixty. Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer, and, above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their minds."

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    some interesting statements about punk so far. glad to see people still know what theyre talking bout here.
    i think one cant compare the bands officially labeled punk today with the origins.

    i think theres like 3 kinds of bands/people branded as punks:

    i know some of these annoying loud assholes calling themselves punks, just because they listen to nofx and sick of it all; always with worn out pants and shoes, stinking, with long hair or mohawks (no offend, i like mohawks) etc. but thats more of a trend than anything else. Just talk seriously with em about politics for half an hour and youll know what i mean. they apply opinions just like most chart-music-listeners do, though most of them take themselves as absolutely independent. the thing is they take their opinions from other sources than mtv.

    then again there's another kind of people considering themselves punk which are the obvious sell-out-punkies running around with "the offspring"-shirts or "blink 182" sweaters, without even knowing misfits or the pistols. quite annoying folks - especially cause they take themselves as independent while being absolutely influenced by media and whats called the "alternative/independent charts". Holy cow, how these guys suck.

    The only thing/group/bands id label punk nowadays is todays hardcore-punk scene including bands such as ignite, boysetsfire and stuff. sure, these are rather known names without the underground-appeal some might consider being the most important part of it - though they are very political - actually thinking about what they say -, they want the CHANGE, Skank was talking bout. And futhermore theyre doing great music. my opinion

    punk's not what it used to be - just my definition of what it became.

    --- woot, my 100st post, i just hope its not my shittiest one ---

    Last edited by Hanuka; February 11th, 2004 at 05:26 PM.
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    Re: what is todays punk rock

    Originally posted by foster
    what are your thoughts on today's punk rock? what makes them what they are and how they look. what separates them from yester years punks.

    post your thoughts and images if you have them.

    jon
    im just curious jon, what are YOUR thoughts? were you a 'hawk sportin SOB like me in your youth?

    love to hear what you have to say about this

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    arent you glad you asked Jon?

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    well, i think "true punk" wasn't really a music style per se... it was the musical outcome of a scene and their ideologies.
    with the scene (almost) dead, the ideologies outdated and the whole situation changed (so that the old phrases and paroles don't fit anymore), it was obviously necessary to get rules for what is punk music and what not. there the sellout begins...

    it's a difference if someone, driven by his ideologies ans beliefs stands before his friends with a guitar he doesn't playall too well and a voice that isn't made for singing and still makes the music he wants to do, just to be a sore thumb and someone who is trying desperately to sound like someone who cannot play guitar properly, dresses up in trousers with holes he ripped in himself and all his content is the struggle to fit in the scheme of "punk music".

    i dunno what the situation in the states or elsewhere is like, but i see what is going on here in germany. cucaracha is so right with what he sais and i feel a tremendous amount of joy when i read his rant because those pseudopunks are considered "intellectuals", people with thoughts behind their actions, people that are standing up for something,
    in fact, this punk thing seems to be a hollow lie for doing nothing, bitching endlessly about "the system" hailing che guevara all day long and getting drunk inbetween.
    this has nothing to do anymore with thoughts behind actions, standing up for what you believe or intellect.
    it is about calling everyone who disagrees with "the punk ideology" either a fascist(1), a nazi(2), a dead fish(3) or an unenlightened human being spolt by capitalism(4). you may roll a d4 to specify what exactly you are.

    okay... i guess it's obvious punk isn't really my cup of tea.
    i am thankful for the existence of this movement, though, as it spawned the gothic movement (not those teen angst kids you have over there in the states... true goth. neoromanticism).

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    Originally posted by gekitsu
    well, i think "true punk" wasn't really a music style per se... it was the musical outcome of a scene and their ideologies.
    with the scene (almost) dead, the ideologies outdated and the whole situation changed (so that the old phrases and paroles don't fit anymore), it was obviously necessary to get rules for what is punk music and what not. there the sellout begins...

    it's a difference if someone, driven by his ideologies ans beliefs stands before his friends with a guitar he doesn't playall too well and a voice that isn't made for singing and still makes the music he wants to do, just to be a sore thumb and someone who is trying desperately to sound like someone who cannot play guitar properly, dresses up in trousers with holes he ripped in himself and all his content is the struggle to fit in the scheme of "punk music".

    i dunno what the situation in the states or elsewhere is like, but i see what is going on here in germany. cucaracha is so right with what he sais and i feel a tremendous amount of joy when i read his rant because those pseudopunks are considered "intellectuals", people with thoughts behind their actions, people that are standing up for something,
    in fact, this punk thing seems to be a hollow lie for doing nothing, bitching endlessly about "the system" hailing che guevara all day long and getting drunk inbetween.
    this has nothing to do anymore with thoughts behind actions, standing up for what you believe or intellect.
    it is about calling everyone who disagrees with "the punk ideology" either a fascist(1), a nazi(2), a dead fish(3) or an unenlightened human being spolt by capitalism(4). you may roll a d4 to specify what exactly you are.

    okay... i guess it's obvious punk isn't really my cup of tea.
    i am thankful for the existence of this movement, though, as it spawned the gothic movement (not those teen angst kids you have over there in the states... true goth. neoromanticism).
    these are the rhetoric spewing sheep that the vast majority of people view as punks...people greatly desiring to "fit in"
    and feel like they belong to something.
    personally i agree with your above statement about the person wanting to do what they want to..its about freedom, not mindlessly following a system of beliefs because everyone else does. its about making your own way and standing up for what you believe in.
    i dont think that needs a label on it do you? :chug:

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    Re: Re: what is todays punk rock

    Originally posted by Skank

    were you a 'hawk sportin SOB like me in your youth?
    Not everyone liked mohawks.

    I had a devilock down to my chin (yay, now you know why I'm Devilock). I sported it for a whole year before my mom caught me and took the scissors to my head (was 16 then; leather jacket, sleeveless shirt, boots and all). Not one damn picture of it :flamig:.

    "They were born, they grew up in the gutters, they went to work at twelve, they passed through a brief blossoming period of beauty and sexual desire, they married at twenty, they were middle-aged at thirty, they died, for the most part, at sixty. Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer, and, above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their minds."

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    Re: Re: Re: what is todays punk rock

    Originally posted by Devilock138


    Not everyone liked mohawks.

    I had a devilock down to my chin (yay, now you know why I'm Devilock). I sported it for a whole year before my mom caught me and took the scissors to my head (was 16 then; leather jacket, sleeveless shirt, boots and all). Not one damn picture of it :flamig:.
    hehe, i think ive covered about ever steriotypical punk hair style you can think of....cept the devilock...never liked hair in my face.

    but like i said earlier, im dyin with my leather on....:evilbat: its like an old friend to me.

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    I gave my leather jacket to a girl... I grew out of it . I've still got my boots though:

    what is todays punk rock

    "They were born, they grew up in the gutters, they went to work at twelve, they passed through a brief blossoming period of beauty and sexual desire, they married at twenty, they were middle-aged at thirty, they died, for the most part, at sixty. Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer, and, above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their minds."

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    lol...devil locks.... yeah i choped mine off last year now i just have hair.....actually all the non-washing of my hair even started turning em to dreds...
    good stuffs....

    punk....wow there are so many poser punks in the "US" that it makes me sick....half these kids have never heard of the clash or the ramones....there just a bunch of preppy kids paying tons to look poor and scrungie, so that they feel cool, and "punk"......

    oh well....i guess theres nothing we can really do about it....except handing out afew bloody noses.....

    "The function of art is to stop us and take us out of our skin,
    Unveiling the spirit's pure nakedness without beginning or end.
    These dialogues of Maker and Seer weave together matter with soul,
    Consecrating the practice of art as speech of the ineffable." ~ALEXgrey

    ....fear the munky
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