Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 67
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    478
    Thanks
    311
    Thanked 162 Times in 74 Posts

    The confederate flag is still flying here...

    Yesterday I was invited by some redneck jackass on facebook to join a group wanting to keep the confederate flag flying in front of the South Carolina statehouse. The fact that it was assumed that I would support such an ignorant cause pissed me off, and I only got more angry when I read the group's description, which called the NAACP an extremist group. Needless to say, it convinced me to find and sign the petition.

    It saddens me that there are so many people around me that support such an ignorant and offensive symbol (for those of you who haven't lived in the south, confederate flags are everywhere.). They all cling to the whole "states rights!" and "heritage" bullshit. To me and pretty much the rest of the world, the confederate flag is an abominable scar on the history of our country that represents white supremacy, slavery, and black oppression.

    Anyways, I would greatly appreciate it if any similar minded people here would sign the petition. I wish the damn thing could just be laid to rest but all of the backward rednecks in this state just won't let it die. Here is a link to the petition, and to the signing of it:

    http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=389x7494089

    http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/rem...south-carolina

    Thank you!


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,819
    Thanks
    1,540
    Thanked 1,837 Times in 521 Posts
    wat. there is two sides to everything. I went to high school in the south and have known rednecks, who use the 'redneck' name, confederate flag, and clothing, country music, hunting/fishing, etc. as a white southern culture only with no kind of agenda other then maintaining their culture. Most of the tension surrounding them is based on ignorance; people who refuse to listen to their "heritage bullshit" and just unfairly associate their entire culture as racist and white trash. Not saying there aren't some who are racist, but to marginalize an entire group is stupid.

    cant wait for the day when any subculture wont be spat on by self righteous ignorant people.

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to nauvice For This Useful Post:


  5. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,819
    Thanks
    1,540
    Thanked 1,837 Times in 521 Posts
    ps; the NAACP, stormfront, PETA, whatever... most organizations have their share of extremists. that accusation doesnt sound that absurd

  6. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,378
    Thanks
    669
    Thanked 538 Times in 296 Posts
    Agreed on the "two sides to every story" statement. The Confederate flag stands for a lot of things including culture, heritage, states rights, slavery, oppression, and more. I don't see it a problem that S.Carolina still flies the flag, in fact I feel it serves as a suitable reminder of our past (and in some cases, present).
    -My work can be found at my local directory thread.

  7. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    478
    Thanks
    311
    Thanked 162 Times in 74 Posts
    Perhaps I was a little too broad in my original post. Obviously not all rednecks are jackasses. However, education, understanding, and tolerance are certainly not heavily stressed parts of their "culture." Even though the flag is certainly a part of this culture, they can't change its meaning and association, although they try. They have convinced themselves that it is about states rights and honoring their fallen ancestors and has nothing to do with slavery. Obviously, theres nothing wrong with those ideas. It sounds almost noble.

    However, to me and to the rest of the country, and the world for that matter, the flag represents the ideas and practicies of the country it represented, which are slavery and white supremacy. Saying the flag is about states rights and heritage is no different than saying the nazi swastika is about german imperialism; conveniently, it leaves out the part about aryan supremacy and genocide.

  8. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    522
    Thanks
    76
    Thanked 177 Times in 139 Posts
    Anything you attribute to that flag is purely your own creation and does not mean that everybody flying that flag is wears a white hood. I've lived in the south all of my life and throughout the course of my education my schools were filled with rap/ hip hop and it's fashions and trends completely dominating. Seeing someone with their pants on their waist was, and still remains- a luxury. I am personally very strong minded on issues like this, but before you call out "rednecks" as being ignorant and racist, id love for you to hear and see and experience things I have from african americans here.
    "A drawing is not necessarily academic because it is thorough, but only because it is dead. Neither is a drawing necessarily academic because it is done in what is called a conventional style, any more than it is good because it is done in an unconventional style. The test is whether it has life and conveys genuine feeling."- Harold Speed
    [[Sketchbook]]

  9. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    478
    Thanks
    311
    Thanked 162 Times in 74 Posts
    *sigh* I've lived here for 10 years, I know exactly what you are talking about. Ignorance is on all sides, regardless of skin color or ethnicity. I'm not sure what your trying to say; african americans aren't fighting to keep a flag in front of the statehouse.

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,819
    Thanks
    1,540
    Thanked 1,837 Times in 521 Posts
    the confederate flag represents a region, the nazi flag represented a party. Whatever shameful past happened under that flag, seems like many people there have gotten over it. noone looks at the french flag and directly think of guillotines...

    whether a person wants to hang his pants below his waist or supports the confederate flag, its just their culture and you shouldn't be bothered. you can hate them for it, but i wouldn't be wrong to call you ethnocentric. Plus, if some are racist, they will either grow out of it in years or will rarely amount to anything anyway. Its a racist in power that we should be most concerned of.

    and I think 'keep' is a key word here. They're not going to a northern state and force a confederate flag in front of the statehouse. from what I can tell, its just some people defending their tradition.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to nauvice For This Useful Post:


  12. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    801
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 428 Times in 168 Posts
    fyi online petitions are stupid. If you really care write a letter to your state representative.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to DeadlyFreeze For This Useful Post:


  14. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    522
    Thanks
    76
    Thanked 177 Times in 139 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianWeeks View Post
    *sigh* I've lived here for 10 years, I know exactly what you are talking about. Ignorance is on all sides, regardless of skin color or ethnicity. I'm not sure what your trying to say; african americans aren't fighting to keep a flag in front of the statehouse.
    I was writing my reply before you entered the post directly above mine. I was merely stating that ignorance is in fact on both sides and that you can't associate the ignorance of a selection of white people to that flag when it really does stand for heritage, the south, and pride. You have to understand there was a time when slavery was acceptable and unless you lived in the time periods before ours you will never directly understand peoples morals of the time and why they thought and did the things they did.
    "A drawing is not necessarily academic because it is thorough, but only because it is dead. Neither is a drawing necessarily academic because it is done in what is called a conventional style, any more than it is good because it is done in an unconventional style. The test is whether it has life and conveys genuine feeling."- Harold Speed
    [[Sketchbook]]

  15. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Slovakia
    Posts
    4,193
    Thanks
    5,154
    Thanked 2,053 Times in 1,109 Posts
    Basically, rebel flag on the Dukes of Hazard car is socially acceptable. Waving it on a capital building means you want to remember your heritage. Wearing it on a tshirt means you're a redneck. Waiving it on someone's lawn makes you a racist. Or, a rebel sticker on the back of your gameboy which you flash at people and laugh. That also would make you a racist. In my time in the south, I've seen all of this.

    The south led a slave economy which they paid for in blood. Still, it's hard for people to not love their parents and grandparents. This whole issue is just better left buried.

  16. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    15
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    i dont have a problem with it personally, and many will never accept that you can both like the confederate flag and NOT be a racist, but there are a lot of dumbass hicks who are for it because they are racist idiots, though. im originally from Mississippi, which has it.


    that said, i think the state flag should represent as many people as possible and i dont have a problem with changing it. so in my opinion it should be changed to best represent the most people (MS is something like 25-30% black, so i think they should have a large say in what it looks like).

    the only thing that pisses me off is that both sides spend millions of dollars on this stupid issue, when MS is always dead last in everything except illiteracy and teenage pregnancy. the priorities in than state are pretty pathetic.

  17. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    WA State
    Posts
    2,364
    Thanks
    796
    Thanked 1,272 Times in 887 Posts
    It's an issue for the people of South Carolina to decide.

  18. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    294
    Thanks
    145
    Thanked 29 Times in 19 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by zwarrior View Post
    wat. there is two sides to everything. I went to high school in the south and have known rednecks, who use the 'redneck' name, confederate flag, and clothing, country music, hunting/fishing, etc. as a white southern culture only with no kind of agenda other then maintaining their culture. Most of the tension surrounding them is based on ignorance; people who refuse to listen to their "heritage bullshit" and just unfairly associate their entire culture as racist and white trash. Not saying there aren't some who are racist, but to marginalize an entire group is stupid.

    cant wait for the day when any subculture wont be spat on by self righteous ignorant people.


    I agree with this. I grew up in South Carolina, and all the people I knew who displayed the confederate flag did it purely out of southern pride and maintaining southern culture. It never, in my experience had anything to do with racism. The whole thing has been blown way out of proportion.

  19. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    801
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 428 Times in 168 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by CruShTinbOX View Post
    I agree with this. I grew up in South Carolina, and all the people I knew who displayed the confederate flag did it purely out of southern pride and maintaining southern culture. It never, in my experience had anything to do with racism. The whole thing has been blown way out of proportion.
    I'm with that man, I run up the old Kriegsmarine Ensign to show my german pride. It's not about that whole 'killing millions of jews' thing, people just blow that out of proportion.

  20. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,378
    Thanks
    669
    Thanked 538 Times in 296 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyFreeze View Post
    I'm with that man, I run up the old Kriegsmarine Ensign to show my german pride. It's not about that whole 'killing millions of jews' thing, people just blow that out of proportion.
    You too?
    -My work can be found at my local directory thread.

  21. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    446
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts
    jump on the base pipe and call the cops, you'll be alright. doubt there going to take that flag down though haha.

  22. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    135
    Thanks
    109
    Thanked 139 Times in 54 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by The Pariano View Post
    there was a time when slavery was acceptable
    There are two ways that that comment could be taken.
    1. There was a time when slavery was ethical.
    or
    2. There was a time when slavery was commonly accepted.

    Please tell me you meant the latter?

  23. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,819
    Thanks
    1,540
    Thanked 1,837 Times in 521 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyFreeze View Post
    I'm with that man, I run up the old Kriegsmarine Ensign to show my german pride. It's not about that whole 'killing millions of jews' thing, people just blow that out of proportion.
    cool story bro, Nazis are definitely the same as rednecks. That's not an ignorant far-fetched argument.

    Oh and also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

    There are two ways that that comment could be taken.
    1. There was a time when slavery was ethical.
    or
    2. There was a time when slavery was commonly accepted.

    Please tell me you meant the latter?
    Both. It was commonly accepted because people believed it was ethical, despite the North's argument stating otherwise. after all, it is written on the bible, and the south was/is very religious... (except now, that verse is referring to servants than slaves). They used that and whatever other excuse (such as books explaining that blacks were subhuman so its ok...) to keep their slaves because they profited off of them.

    that isn't to say ALL of the south owned slaves. Majority actually did not. Mostly the rich... who controlled politics (which is how it was in almost all countries back then) There were many Southerners who even objected that law, but the vocal ones were exiled up North.

    So in actuality, majority of white people in the south, even rednecks, most likely their families did not own slaves.

    and I think the North should really get off their high horse, they may have abolished slavery first, but racism and black people being second class citizens was still alive in the whole country.
    Last edited by nauvice; January 24th, 2010 at 04:14 AM.

  24. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,378
    Thanks
    669
    Thanked 538 Times in 296 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by gjpetch View Post
    There are two ways that that comment could be taken.
    1. There was a time when slavery was ethical.
    or
    2. There was a time when slavery was commonly accepted.

    Please tell me you meant the latter?
    Well, if for no other reason than to fuel the flames, I have to say both statements are true.

    Obviously there was a time when slavery was commonly accepted, but also there was a time when it was considered even ethical. "Inferior" races were deemed unable to properly lead their own lives and thus required guidance.

    Certainly not saying it's right, but it was a concept of the times.

    Quote Originally Posted by zwarrior View Post
    cool story bro, Nazis are definitely the same as rednecks. That's not an ignorant far-fetched argument.

    Oh and also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
    Yeah he knows, unfortunately a corollary to Godwin's Law states that intentional invocations of the Law will fail to end a thread.

    Personally I find indirect invocations, such as references to Stalin or the U.S. Japanese Internment, to be far more effective. They tend to lead someone to honestly mention ol' Adolf, and that will end a thread.

    E.g. "I'm with that man, I run up the old Communist Party to show my contempt for the bourgeoise. It's not about that whole 'death to the capitalist pig' thing, people just blow that out of proportion."
    -My work can be found at my local directory thread.

  25. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    174
    Thanks
    87
    Thanked 87 Times in 46 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyFreeze View Post
    I'm with that man, I run up the old Kriegsmarine Ensign to show my german pride. It's not about that whole 'killing millions of jews' thing, people just blow that out of proportion.
    -Well in Japan they do wear nazi uniforms , svastika etc... for cosplay but still .

    -In occident we often use the Rising sun japanese flag wich is kind of an ultranationalist symbol , glorifying the emperor etc ...

    I think there are many examples around the world , but a symbol only has the meaning you gave to him , and for every people is different i guess .

    So for you the confederate flag is not acceptable because you give it a strong meaning , for me , this flag doesn't bother me much for exemple , it's just a historical symbol from a civil war , and it's not about being ignorant it's just i give a different meaning
    Let people judge what is good for them , you're not here to decide what is good or not .

    (sorry for my english)

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to Asahi-SD- For This Useful Post:


  27. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    801
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 428 Times in 168 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Asahi-SD- View Post
    Let people judge what is good for them , you're not here to decide what is good or not .
    Your perfectly right, the difference is raising it over your statehouse which speaks for everyone.

  28. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    135
    Thanks
    109
    Thanked 139 Times in 54 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by zwarrior View Post
    Both. It was commonly accepted because people believed it was ethical,
    Quote Originally Posted by Anid Maro View Post
    there was a time when it was considered even ethical.
    I'd argue that believing something to be ethical does not make it actually ethical. Nor does the predominate view of the day make acts ethical or unethical by my criteria of ethics.
    I admit that ethics is somewhat subjective, but on the criteria of justice and suffering I have to say that slavery is wrong, regardless of when it occurred.

    *edit* Oh, I'd add that I'm not from America, I don't have sufficient knowledge of American history and culture to comment specifically on the confederate flag, I'm merely commenting on slavery *>edit*
    Last edited by gjpetch; January 24th, 2010 at 05:27 AM.

  29. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    174
    Thanks
    87
    Thanked 87 Times in 46 Posts
    i still think you give to much meaning to this flag things evolve , symbol's meaning too , and i'm pretty sure that most of the people carring this flag now , mostly see it as a southen pride and not as a symbol encouraging slavery etc...
    Plus if i remember well the origin of this flag is just a symbol against the north opression , and not against black people no?

  30. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    801
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 428 Times in 168 Posts
    How do people just ignore the parts of history they don't like, it boggles the mind.

  31. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    410
    Thanks
    525
    Thanked 477 Times in 158 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyFreeze View Post
    How do people just ignore the parts of history they don't like, it boggles the mind.
    Because it usually ends up starting these type of discussions and deterring people from doing something productive.
    SECONDS: Do you work from life of photographs?
    FRAZETTA: I work from my head.


  32. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    410
    Thanks
    525
    Thanked 477 Times in 158 Posts
    Edit: DP
    SECONDS: Do you work from life of photographs?
    FRAZETTA: I work from my head.


  33. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,341
    Thanks
    533
    Thanked 528 Times in 305 Posts
    may I cut in?

    Skip to 10:47
    http://megavideo.com/?d=B3FRO9TC

    The confederate flag is still flying here...
    Last edited by Flashback; January 24th, 2010 at 11:53 AM.
    *** Sketchbook and other stuff ***

    Flashback's SB

    Anatomy Atlas

    Digital Galleries

    Visit & Support:
    http://www.ctrlpaint.com/

  34. The Following User Says Thank You to Flashback For This Useful Post:


  35. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    174
    Thanks
    87
    Thanked 87 Times in 46 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyFreeze View Post
    How do people just ignore the parts of history they don't like, it boggles the mind.
    ^^ ... they're not ignoring it , no one is ignoring it i think , it's just , past is past somehow we have to go on and we take with us some part of our heritage for what it was at some point , as for this flag, if it came this far i think it's more for his first meaning , the representation of the south , more than slavery , or black treat meaning , it came back as it's original meaning , a flag wich is representative of the south, no more than that...
    At least there is a positive point with this flag flying around , people will always assimilate it with the war and remember the reason the war was made hopefully .
    So like i said, this flag is not a bad thing itself, it's the meaning YOU give to it who turned it into a bad symbol ... for most of the people it just mean " i'm proud to be from the south "

    So maybe you're the one who get it wrong with the symbol of this flag ^^

    ( i know it's kind of a polemic in US , it's not just you :p hehe )






    Sorry for my english

  36. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,611
    Thanks
    550
    Thanked 1,313 Times in 417 Posts
    This is why I love the internet. It's like chaos theory in action. Here I expected everyone to fall in line with a seemingly sensible idea, but here we are in a sweet lil devil's advocate marathon. Most of the people dropping comments on this thread dont have there locations cued, not that based on region can I break you down, but in a sense you can. This issue will be very different depending on where you're from. Asahi-SD- made a very important statement:" i still think you give to much meaning to this flag. " That's the thing about flags. They are nothing but meaning. Probably the original graphic design method for cliffnoting a group, area, etc. The thing is then, what that meaning is and/or how it changes with time. Doesnt still flying the confederate flag in the south, especially at government buildings suggest that you still wish to succeed from the nation? That you long for a divided united states? In which case isnt it a negative symbol to the country as a whole? The suggestion that it's cultural is valid, but I'd hope it's a part of southern culture people might want to dust under the carpet. It really comes down to point of view.


    The confederate flag is still flying here...

    I live in Wisconsin, about as north a state as you can get and we see them up here. People have shirts and flags flying from trucks, etc. That use is not one of southern pride or culture. This use is of the redneck racism variety. I loved Dukes of Hazard growing up. That flag was just a paint job to a kid me watching the show. It had no meaning. Frankly the U.S. flag didnt have much meaning for me either, for most of my life. I've grown up through a number of "wars" and conflicts, probably more than my father. But they werent on a scale of those before me, like WWII for example. Events like these raise our pride in our particular flag. 9/11 was an event that did it for a number of people in my generation. It was an event that brought us together under a banner, the stars and stripes.

    You know that this...

    The confederate flag is still flying here...

    ... is your flag too, South. It's the flag that we as the united states, all of us together, stand under. What about the greater pride of being a country?

    I wonder if any government buildings in Southern Vietnam get to fly the flag they "prefer"

    Fact of the matter is that the majority of people dont see the stars and bars as a symbol of southern pride. They see it as a banner of ignorance, racism, and a black eye in our nations history. The only flags that should be outside a government building is the U.S. flag and a state flag (and maybe a U.N. flag). And I believe a number of southern state flags have the stars and bars on them or are some how based on it. So you still have it being remembered as history. HISTORY, not the present.
    Last edited by Hookswords; January 24th, 2010 at 01:00 PM.

  37. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Hookswords For This Useful Post:


Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. World Flag
    By townes in forum Art Critique Center
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: December 9th, 2011, 06:58 AM
  2. Art: Confederate Ninja
    By miljenko in forum Finished Art
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: September 18th, 2006, 02:53 AM
  3. Rebel Girl (Warning Confederate Flag-a-Plenty) Vector
    By ryder75 in forum Art Critique Center
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: June 9th, 2006, 09:30 AM
  4. Art: Rebel Girl (Warning Confederate Flag-a-Plenty) Vector
    By ryder75 in forum Finished Art
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: June 8th, 2006, 09:46 AM
  5. Art: confederate soldier(updated)
    By CleptoCat in forum Finished Art
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: December 24th, 2003, 04:12 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Designed by The Coldest Water, we build the coldest best water bottles, ice packs and best pillows.