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  1. #1
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    WACOM, Real ART??

    i was talknig to my art teacher the other day when we got on the subject of wacom tablets. I was very interested in getting one of them, after seeing what they can do through this forum. but she was not interested, she told me she did not look at it as REAL art, cause she could not touch it or feel it, it just wan't the same to her. she sayed it was a tool, but not an art tool. and said its not REAL art.
    -i was just wondering about wha your opinions on this subject????

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  3. #2
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    I'm sure that upon closer inspection your teacher will turn out to be a crock of shit disguised as a human.

    OK, thats too harsh, she is a purist, and she is entitled to her opinion, but if you tell me that what the guys on this forum turn out isn't art, you are loony.:crosseyed:

    Oh yeah, there's a post on this page about whether digital art is real. You should read that.


    Es fließt durch meine Venen, Es schläft in meinen Tränen
    Es läuft mir aus den Ohren, Herz und Nieren sind Motoren

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  4. #3
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    I don't think she has ever used one, and probably doesn't even know how to paint digitaly..thus she is AFRAID of what she does not understand. It is a tool, but so is a brush, palet knife,..etc.

    I sell digital paintings on giclee prints all the time. In fact most illustrators and fine artists are using these tools.

    But, you will always have people who want "originals" and in that case, a good ol' canvas and paint would suffice.

    Digital painting is a great way to figure out you colors and composition, and then paint it on canvas later. Your creative process is not hindered with cleaning brushes, waiting for paint to dry, or ever running out of paint!!!

    "If one advances confidently in the direction of
    his dreams, and endeavors to live the life he
    has imagined, he will meet with a success
    unexpected in common hours."
    - H.D. Thoreau
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    Sounds like your teacher isnt a REAL art teacher. Print something out for her and tell her to touch it.

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  6. #5
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    i think otis hit it on the head with the fear thing, most people just shun that which they havent done.

    you can print a photograph and its considiered art, but its not art if you print a digital painting on that same piece of material that the photograph was printed on? i dont buy it.

    slap that teacher

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    i did a seminar on this topic. Perhaps you would like to read it ?

    Email me if interested

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    I think you're teacher is an arrogant "artsie-fartsie"... am I right? They tend to put down anything that's not in a gallery, or museum. ... stuff like comic art, graffiti, and digital works, just to name a few...

    ... and yet these are the people who would buy a signature on a canvas for $1200. ... or think that a painted urinal is "art".

    ... i hate those kinds of people, just as much as I hate arrogant pseudo-intellectuals like michael moore.

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    I think that urinals are a piece of art. its an ingenius idea! Peeing on the wall! You can't tell me that peeing on the wall is less fun then peeing in the toilet. Though peeing in the snow is more fun. You can make pictures. Peeing + drawing = fun

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    Is it fun? Do you have fun when you do it? Can you do digital and traditional art?...Yes!

    What else matters.

    I have tons of fun with my wacom , I also go through mounds of sketchbooks and I also have large oil paint/canvas's around my place.

    I definitely don't want all my work to be in the computer when I die. That's why I'm so in love with the Golden Age Illustrators. Check This Link. http://www.conceptart.org/forums/for...?s=&forumid=19

    Art is dope in general. There is no need to limit yourself to one medium.

    -Joshua




    ...I also do my Colour Studies for my large oil paintings on the computer. It's fun, quick and efficient.

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  12. #11
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    You just need to take a wacom and kick it up his ass. Then ask him if its real.

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    WARNING!!!
    Written when I was very drunk!


    Hey... Micheal Moore actually has a point with his movies, and they're pretty good.

    ...But yeah, there is a lot of hypocrites. They will always be there, the people who doesn't look to the future, just to the past. But thats the nature of the human being.

    In some levels artists are more than the ordinary human, and tend to see over barriers created by the mind. Someone who can't see over these barriers just don't see the future. There is stuff that should be taken more seriously than digital art, that the plain human don't seem to understand (or lack the knowledge about), but it is a pretty good example. Just because it doesn't exist in an analog world it doesn't exist. Thats just a stupid thought!

    Just because you can touch an oilpainting does it make more real than a digital painting? I don't think so. There's really no diffrence between an oilpainting or a digitalpainting. As soon you see that there's actually no really diffrence between the digital world or the analog world you will understand that. In a near future we will be able to recreate a Mona lisa as easily as we copy a digital painting. It is just that the digital science has gone much further than the analog. The only reason that it is so is because you can apply all analog science to the digital world and progress beyond that, without the limitations of the mind.

    But what it comes down to is that a digital painting is as real as an analog one, the only thing that makes one seem more real than the other is our mind. (And the only reason to ever think of what the mind says, is when you're trying to make some cash on a painting...)

    urk... I know, when I'm drunk I'm pretty cheesy, please forgive me...:beer:

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    so i guess music isnt art either then huh? your teacher needs to open her mind a bit.

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    Yea, Michael Moore annoys me too.... well, he used to be an alright guy, back when he was more of a consumer watch dog. He kinda went loony somewhere along the line. Anyway... I'll stay on topic. In my opinion, the best way I could describe how I see digital v. analog art is by comparing it to electric and acoustic guitars. You can create alot more interesting effects with an electric guitar, but the sound you hear is digital and processed... it lacks the warmth and living nature you get from playing or being around an acoustic. Obviously, they're both appreciated tho.

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  16. #15
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    I guess what you guys are writing isn't real either. Ooo, paradox, eh? .....Sorta

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  17. #16
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    Well, Ok i'll finally give my side to this debate.

    i'd have to say 95% of people who see art in westernized culture view it in magazines, books, posters, internet and other various places.

    Now your teacher says it's not art because you can't touch it. When you open a magazine and you see a painting... you can touch that exactly the same way you can touch your computer screen. Besides the visual aspect of the piece of art what needs to be felt?

    I completely understand Sculpture vs 3D Modelling. There's alot that can be experienced by seeing something like that in reality.

    I think it's all complete hogwash. Paint on whatever media you choice. There will always be dingleberries out there who don't accept certain things.

    Shit painting in generally was looked down upon once, painters had to pretend they were doing mathematicial studies or would be jailed.

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  18. #17
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    3000 years ago she would have been just as afraid of paper and a brush...

    Power is nothing without intelligence.

    Sketchbook!
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    I really hope no one is getting to bent out of shape about these arguments on digital art. There is no reason at all to get mad if someone does not understand or believe that digital art is real art. Just like in the other "stupid" thread about this topic "lol", you can't take this too seriously if they don't understand educate them. If they don't believe feel sorry for them because they are the ones that are missing out on something special. And I hope more people can tell the difference between an intelligent conversation about the nature of reality and one about a "stupid" art teacher. Calm down guys its all a game.

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  20. #19
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    There is a inscription in egypt on one of the tombs that reads the true mesure of art can never be obtained


    I love this sain and have to say it to myslelf sometimes , recently i was reading the international artist magazine where they had 4 pages on artist using gunpowder trhowing in on the wall and ligthing it the mark it made on the wall was there art i remember thinking how the hell could these guys get respect and digital artist get snubbed i had to catch myself and remember that no matter what the tool or what someone elses opinion is art can simply be the creativity or toltal lack of creativity put into a project that an Aritst works on


    anyway just bring in a few works by mullins or one of andrew jones portraits and tell her those guys are plumbers and you refered them to your school to teach art becasue aparently digitlal requires no talent


    that does iratate when people say retarded shit like that how can you ignore the fundemetals an artist uses like compostion value depth etc its like seeing somone at a muesem looking at work on a monitor and saying WOW that is the best composition or use of values etc ive ever seen to bad its not on a piece of canvas i can touch to make it art

    Last edited by Travis_Bourbeau; February 6th, 2004 at 08:50 AM.
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  21. #20
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    art is art, regardless of the medium. quoteth the russian guy on armageddon, 'american parts, russian parts, all made in taiwan!'. same deal. oils? digital? all comes from the same place. head, heart, whatever. art is art, as long as it was created as art to be appreciated as art.

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  22. #21
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    malicious wins.


    Es fließt durch meine Venen, Es schläft in meinen Tränen
    Es läuft mir aus den Ohren, Herz und Nieren sind Motoren

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    Originally posted by davi
    Shit painting in generally was looked down upon once, painters had to pretend they were doing mathematicial studies or would be jailed.
    When was this? I certainly don't have a thorough knowledge of art history, but I know people have been painting since cavemen times. The only time period I'm not familiar with is after the collapse of Rome till the beginning of early or middle ages. And of course cultures outside of Europe.

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  24. #23
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    There are too many definitions of art and artist. An artist has to have skill. An artist has to have imagination.

    I know a guy who can look at something and draw it so precise you'd think it was a tracing or a photcopy. I mean to say; its uncanny the way he can do it. But... he can't think of a single thing to draw. He has no imagination.

    An artist needs Imagnation.

    An artist needs Talent.

    An artist needs Drive.

    Without drive an artist is just a doodler. Without imagination an artist is just a copier. Without talent an Artist is just a wisher. How does this have a point in regards to a Wacom? If you have talent, Imagination and drive, what difference does it make what medium you use? Some people are reluctant to use new ways.

    I never resent people who feel this way. I accept it. I get it 50/50 from artists. For some, their rabid obsession is part of the way they are. For others change and experimentation is the way they are. Sometimes a reluctance to change is out of fear, sometimes its simply this: a lack of knowledge and experience. Sometimes they *just don't like it*.

    This is why I hate abstract art. Oh, I LOVE surreal art... but I HATE abstract. Abstract is an 'artist' with lazy skill and a bad imagination. Spattering red paint on the canvas and making an ink sketching of a guy tied to a chair is not art. Its lazy. A bunch of symmetrical lines going into an almost infinite square? What a crock. I go over blue-prints of 5 million dollar homes that have cathedral cielings and *docks* attached to the rear of the house; wich is elevated above the boat house. That is art. To me, Hot Rodding is art. Its a person with skill and emotion; their canvas just happens to be a 1932 Bugatti or a 1932 Duece Coupe. But abstract artist have nothing. Just a mess and a canvas and a paycheck. 'Passion' is not art.

    Digital art is real art. I'm new to it, I'm learning it and hell if its easy. I mean fucking HELL if its easy. Its harder, to me at least, then oils. I started pastels, acrylics and oils when I was about 17 and I just took to 'em. But dammit, digital art is a pain in the ass for me, but I'm intent on making it work for me.

    Art:

    A well constructed idea from the imagination conveyed either visually or audibly.

    Artist:

    A poorly constructed human who tries to translate imagination either visually or audibly; either easily or through struggle, but always with skill.

    And maybe that's just me. That's definately my opinion though.

    "They were born, they grew up in the gutters, they went to work at twelve, they passed through a brief blossoming period of beauty and sexual desire, they married at twenty, they were middle-aged at thirty, they died, for the most part, at sixty. Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer, and, above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their minds."

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  25. #24
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    Are you talking about a certain type of painting? Because, painters were very valuable in history. They had no cameras so painters were the best thing they had. Plus, they provided biblical records without writing, because many people couldn't read back then and told stories by looking at the paintings (same goes for stained glasses in churches).

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  26. #25
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    Originally posted by mtw

    When was this? I certainly don't have a thorough knowledge of art history, but I know people have been painting since cavemen times.
    Just like the Victorian painters who could only paint church-approved pictures. Instead of never painting they just stuck a halo over everyone's head.

    "They were born, they grew up in the gutters, they went to work at twelve, they passed through a brief blossoming period of beauty and sexual desire, they married at twenty, they were middle-aged at thirty, they died, for the most part, at sixty. Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer, and, above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their minds."

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  27. #26
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    Originally posted by Devilock138
    This is why I hate abstract art. Oh, I LOVE surreal art... but I HATE abstract. Abstract is an 'artist' with lazy skill and a bad imagination.
    That's not being much different from the art teacher being talked about.

    Last edited by mtw; February 6th, 2004 at 08:49 PM.
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  28. #27
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    even abstract art is art just like rap is music. i dont like either one, but just because it's bad art in my opinion, that doesnt change the fact that it is art, and even good art to someone else.

    digital art is just as real as painted art. when we look at either one, the only thing we actually see is light (the light bouncing off the object and entering our eyes in different colors). the light off of a digital painting is the same kind of light that comes off of "real-life" painting, so the image is just as real. if she wants to touch and feel the art, maybe she should look into sculpting, because obviously visual art is something she knows nothing about.

    i've known some stupid art teachers, but man, if i were you i would hate that teacher....

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  29. #28
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    Originally posted by mtw

    When was this? I certainly don't have a thorough knowledge of art history, but I know people have been painting since cavemen times. The only time period I'm not familiar with is after the collapse of Rome till the beginning of early or middle ages. And of course cultures outside of Europe.


    i'm too lazy to dig through my closet to get to my art history book

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  30. #29
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    Originally posted by davi
    i'm too lazy to dig through my closet to get to my art history book
    At least you still have yours.

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  31. #30
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    I think what is the most disturbing about this, is simply that a " teacher " said this. Someone responsible for teaching us, and for being a part of sculpting the worlds future...

    I'm sure most of us know better, it just disturbs me sometimes to hear about how some teachers take advantage of their positions to press their obvious opinions on their students as facts. They should know better.

    --marie--

    --marie--


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