Lucid Dreaming and "Scouts"
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Thread: Lucid Dreaming and "Scouts"

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    Lucid Dreaming and "Scouts"

    I just had an experience with what's described as a "Scout" by Carlos Castaneda. They're these people in my dreams, that I've only seen 3 other times in my life(dreams).

    Usually when I'm lucid dreaming I can control people completely - but when I run into these guys, it's like they are autonomous! They tell me things like "Let go/Let us show you the way/You've been gone for a while/We've been waiting." I would describe them as eager, pleasant and friendly.

    Does anyone else have similar experiences? It weirds me the fuck out. If not, just discuss how your lucid dreams go. (You know just talking/reading about them increases probability of having them)

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    Umm...whatever you do, do NOT agree to let go and go with them.

    You know how people fly in their dreams, well, they usually experience it lucidly. That feeling of a liftoff and being in the air, that's apparently your conciousness floating above ya also known as out of body experience or OBE. As opposing to every other dream where the brain is warming up the neural simulators, when you wake up form an OBE your 'counciousness' apparently slings back into you.
    I'm not sure the slingback is reliable if you let go.

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    Well, I did follow him initially, and it made the dream interesting. Felt as if it wasn't really my dream anymore - then that feeling made me uncomfortable and I awoke in sleep paralysis. Then jolted back into the dream exactly where I left from, then I forced myself awake shortly after. Felt like I was being tossed back and forth in my sleep.

    The sleep paralysis was the scariest part, but I managed to calm down and I figured out the only way I could move again is if I went back to sleep and awoke myself.

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    Well there you go, don't joke with that shit, unless you're tired of your physical shell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraus View Post
    Well there you go, don't joke with that shit, unless you're tired of your physical shell.
    ...What? You're not...what are you getting at?

    Anyway. Lucid dreams are really difficult for me to accomplish. And I have very little control either way, I can only consciously change minor very things.

    Wow, is this a weird conversation!

    Scouts sound awesome, though. Never had those.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotime View Post
    ...What? You're not...what are you getting at?

    Anyway. Lucid dreams are really difficult for me to accomplish. And I have very little control either way, I can only consciously change minor very things.

    Wow, is this a weird conversation!

    Scouts sound awesome, though. Never had those.
    My control is completely random. Sometimes I can make people do what ever I want. This only comes when I say in dream: "THIS, is a dream, these people are ME, my creation." When you have conviction in a dream self-awareness and control are amplified like crazy.

    The "Scouts", are a description of foreign energies that get mixed up in your dreams. It's described in a book called The Art of Dreaming. It's a detailed account of Carlos Castaneda's apprenticeship with a "shaman" who was teaching him the art of dreaming. (lucid dreaming basically.)

    I've also heard of accidental OBE's leading to possessions. Which is a really scary thought. Lately what I've been experiencing in dreams, has made my perception of reality, very strange. I don't know how to explain it but, learning how to lucid dream really does seem to "open doors".

    Last edited by Ryan K; January 21st, 2010 at 12:10 AM.
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    Man, over the summer I became utterly obsessed with lucid dreaming. I was extremely passionate about it. I still have many of them recorded...

    I haven't had one in ages, though. I've basically turned my back on my dream life for the past few months. It's due to stress and time limitations. Lucid dreaming takes up a LOT of time...

    I sort of want to get back into it though. It was never as life changing as I wanted it to be but it's rather interesting at least. It seemed to become just another weird little thing that I was into that not many people cared about. Although these three girls were going on and on about how cool it was... That should have been motivation enough for me to continue on with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan K View Post
    The "Scouts", are a description of foreign energies that get mixed up in your dreams. It's described in a book called The Art of Dreaming. It's a detailed account of Carlos Castaneda's apprenticeship with a "shaman" who was teaching him the art of dreaming. (lucid dreaming basically.)
    And...you lost me.

    This threads getting too metaphysical for me.

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    Scout's can be anything unfamilliar in dreams as foreighn energy but I have also experienced the party type situations you are talking about.

    You might have a relative amount of continuation where you might meet the same characters again however slightly differant building some dream episode or something like having an alternative life somewhere as a dreamer or something.

    Scout's are interesting, it could be a chicken that looks at what you are doing, strange animals or creatures that leaves a gate or hole open. Mostly these seem curious and is trying to understand what you are up to or what you have meant when you said "xxxxx" the other day. Or why you left something in that partial condition without correction or explanation.

    I have some scout's that you might meet this week somtimes. They steal your artistic ideas and skills. Bwahahahahaha!!

    I have had experiences and dreams that show up later in other folks art, so there's a relative level or brainwave frequency out there where people's stuff mingle I think. There's even dream artworks floating around on a certain level that leaves behind powerfull messages, sometimes it's just random crap from listening to advertizing and shit all day.

    I had one the other morning that was blowing my brains out or something. I had a lucid half awake experience and suddenly somone set off something that sounded like a massive shotgun blast into my face, I wasn't startled though, that was after I baught a certain art magazine. Who knows what High sygil magic are in some people's work. Hehehehehe!!

    My dreams have ended up being mostly usefull for some kind of artist inspiration and magical understanding of certain structures or mental processes. I am suggestive and know how to frame questions to myself to make my mind go and figure stuff out and possibly later explain it to me by putting me through certain dream experiences etc sometime I would have scouts jumping through holes and cracks into other' folks menal spaces and memories of the homes they grew up in meeting them sharing and gathering answers(Just kidding, or am I?)

    This might all just be hypnosis so don't take it too seriousely.

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    If these scouts, or astral projection, or any of that stuff was anything more than people's imagination, then surely it could be scientifically proven?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan K View Post
    The "Scouts", are a description of foreign energies that get mixed up in your dreams.
    Make a few voodoo dolls that look similar to these guys and take them to bed, that'll show them! Carefull with the needles though...


    I'm amazed how people get all superstitious about dreams in this day and age (well, not really). I've had lucid dreams as long as I can remember (about dreaming), and I don't think they have the slightest relevance (personally, in society, art, anywhere).

    "Daydreaming", or actual (conscious) creativity, now there's something relevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gjpetch View Post
    If these scouts, or astral projection, or any of that stuff was anything more than people's imagination, then surely it could be scientifically proven?
    Science can only prove that wich it can controll. This have been proven plenty of times in Science fiction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zaorr View Post
    Science can only prove that wich it can controll. This have been proven plenty of times in Science fiction.
    Science proves a ton of things that it has no control over; the earth's heliocentric orbit could not reasonably be described as unproven, yet we certainly have nothing remotely approaching control over the earth's orbit.

    Science deals with reality, if you want to argue that something is beyond science, then you essentially argue that that thing is beyond reality, i.e. that it does not actually exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zaorr View Post
    Science can only prove that wich it can controll. This have been proven plenty of times in Science fiction.
    I see what you did there. Burn the witch!

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    Everything you encounter in your dreams is an element of your subconscious. That means "dream beings" may behave intelligently and seemingly distinct from your will, but they are still "you". Of course there is no possibility of danger by doing anything in a dream, that's just nonsense.

    Since you mention that old fraud Castaneda you are aware that the stuff he wrote was fiction passed off as fact, aren't you? His mentor, the great Don Jan Matus, likely didn't even exist, at least not as Castaneda described him. As I recall, at the end of his Art of Dreaming book, didn't someone get physically taken into a dream? It's a long time since I read it. I enjoyed his imagination but be careful not to confuse it with fact.

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    you guys hope for wet dreams right?

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    I see scouts in my dreams all the time, but I don't know if I left open the wrong astral-physical door when I went dream shopping or ingested a bad batch of foreign energy from that guy in that back ally, because they're sure a lot less pleasent than you guys describe;



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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Impossible View Post
    Everything you encounter in your dreams is an element of your subconscious. That means "dream beings" may behave intelligently and seemingly distinct from your will, but they are still "you". Of course there is no possibility of danger by doing anything in a dream, that's just nonsense.

    Since you mention that old fraud Castaneda you are aware that the stuff he wrote was fiction passed off as fact, aren't you? His mentor, the great Don Jan Matus, likely didn't even exist, at least not as Castaneda described him. As I recall, at the end of his Art of Dreaming book, didn't someone get physically taken into a dream? It's a long time since I read it. I enjoyed his imagination but be careful not to confuse it with fact.
    Of course I don't believe everything I read. But my own experiences correlate somewhat to what I find in books after I've had the experience - so it's interesting theory to entertain. Especially when you're dealing with dreams.

    When you're in a dream and almost able to control every aspect of it, it really shakes your faith in the thought "there's nothing paranormal about reality/existence." If people can believe in a big man in the sky why is it so off the wall to believe in spirits/energy on the ground.

    Anyways this thread wasn't intended to be a debate on validity. I want to hear other lucid experiences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan K View Post
    When you're in a dream and almost able to control every aspect of it, it really shakes your faith in the thought "there's nothing paranormal about reality/existence."
    I'd swap your word "faith" for "belief in evidence" . I do see what you're saying but there are no grounds for suspecting anything paranormal (whatever that means). I've had many lucid dreams and yes, full blown lucid dreams are quite amazing, impossible to describe fully to those who have never had them. Just because they're amazing, however, is not a reason to assume they have non-scientific explanations. Indeed, the fact that you are able to control every aspect of your dream is more evidence that dreams are internally generated by the brain.

    One of the most difficult things to describe about lucid dreams is their super-reality. In some lucid dreams everything appears more real than it does in normal, waking consciousnes. People can understand that syntactically but without experiencing it they can't appreciate what it means. Now whilst that phenomenon seems bizarre and inexplicable, of course it isn't. All it means is that normally the quality of the raw visual information our brain processes is dependant on the mechanism of the eye, which is necessarily limited. In lucid dreaming we don't have that restriction because the brain is generating the raw information directly, so perfect clarity of vision (rather than just 20:20) and the ability to see super-vivid colours, and even brand new colours, is now possible.

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    Science's purpose is to explain. If magic existed, science would be there to explain it. Paranormal and supernatural are just words with no real meaning.

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    The structure of magic is to welcome the unknown and unseen without having to be able to explain.

    Science is juxtaposed to the structure of magic. Science is not everything, no human had to measure or explain anything for humans to exist but they need a measure of learning to survive, that does not make "HUMAN" knowledge and understanding the thing that makes things hold together. It's just something to help then not get hit by a car when they walk across the street.

    So you can't say that science is the first thing, since it's the response to stuff that is, the unknown is the source and it's where everything comes from we try to measure and explain and reduce to our little grasps. In fact science is more the distruction of the natural rather than being anything constructive, science leads to knoledge and exploit and chaos because it exist means that knowledge are ever incomplete, so there's allways unnacounted consequence in the evolution of human race as we gamble with the planet.

    Everything is reduced to have tags on them by our ego's, that's just this or just that. People have been wrong about stuff since the beginning of time and they will continue to be wrong about stuff as time goes by.

    First earh was the center and the sun revolved around the earht's ego then the sun was the center and the universe revolved around our solar system's ego, then they saw the milky way and found out what insignificant means or even just a fragment of it.

    The thing is if you end up in the matrix what will there be for you, since that's what dreaming is. You are so stuck on science and so solid in what you know that you dream of walls and walking. What a dumb ass you are, you could have flown and ran through them. Dreams if you "LEARN to make something constructive from any information" the teaching of magic you might learn the opposite, some of people's problems while they are awake are not even physical matter, it's not a door or a wall, it does not look like a hollographic illusion even yet they threat those objective problems as real objects that supress them, keep them back or tell them what they can't do.

    Last edited by George Abraham; January 21st, 2010 at 12:09 PM.
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    Years back when I was obsessed with lucid dreams and obe's, I read copious amounts of books on the subjects (before ta intarweb). The most intense experience I had was realizing I was dreaming, then remembering to look at my own hands, everything became incredibly focused and clear. If you can remember try it.

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    Careful, we call it "pseudo-science" for a reason, and often, though less affectionately, "bullshit".

    Brendan Noeth

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    Quote Originally Posted by csteingart View Post
    Years back when I was obsessed with lucid dreams and obe's, I read copious amounts of books on the subjects (before ta intarweb). The most intense experience I had was realizing I was dreaming, then remembering to look at my own hands, everything became incredibly focused and clear. If you can remember try it.
    Yeah, that does work. Looking at your hands normally brings extra clarity and rubbing your hands together often prolongs the lucid dream. Another method to try is dream spinning. I do this if I'm bored in a dream, and the result is always the same. I'll spin round then a door will appear. I'll step through it and on the other side is total nothingness. Then, after a few seconds, another dream will start up, more vivid that the one before it. No magic involved, though, just the brain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan N View Post
    Careful, we call it "pseudo-science" for a reason, and often, though less affectionately, "bullshit".
    Even "bullshit" gives it too much credence. For example, I could say "the moon is a cube." That would be bullshit and yet it's still physically possible, and can be interpreted logically. The babble that the anti-science brigade spout is simply random noise that can never be deciphered let alone validated.

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    Have you seen Waking Life? There's a chapter about scouts, now after reading your post I take it they are common in lucid dreaming uh? I could never do it because I know how scary sleep paralysis is.

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    I'd say this is a great situation to form a story. Try and think up a plot based on it. Could make a great comic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gjpetch View Post
    If these scouts, or astral projection, or any of that stuff was anything more than people's imagination, then surely it could be scientifically proven?
    I love how people equate scientists to masters of reality.. Scientists are only human and don't know shit on a grand scale, or don't necesserely have the research technology to prove or disprove something that can so far only be experienced. I mean hell what kind of proof you're looking for, subatomic structure of an astral projection?

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    I had an intense lucid dream a few days ago. It didn't last long though.. I suddenly "awoke" during my dream, finding myself in aware of what I was doing and I knew it was a dream.
    I saw some strange creatures far away and decided to fly to them, it was a really cool experience, I got so excited I woke up though. But the adrenaline-rush and the feeling of flight was still in my body when I awoke.. just like a shaky car-ride or something..

    I've had short lucid dreams two times before that but never a lasting one. Maybe should discipline myself and really try to have a long one.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraus View Post
    Well there you go, don't joke with that shit, unless you're tired of your physical shell.
    There's nothing to be afraid of. You should read some more about this, you fear what you don't understand.
    I'm fairly sure he couldn't be more safe than that, having a benevolent scout guiding him. Some people have guardian angels and such, so no worries.

    Ryan I think you should keep an open mind and try experience some more. Try to ask the scout questions about important things that have been bothering you lately, they might have some interesting answers.


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    When you're part conscious and part dreaming, is that a lucid dream?

    When i get that i usually cut it off, sleep is much better..

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