Figuratively going into teaching

Join 500,000+ Artists

Its' free and it takes less than 10 seconds!

Join the #1 Art Workshop - LevelUpJoin Premium Art Workshop

Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Buckinghamshire, UK
    Posts
    1,761
    Thanks
    310
    Thanked 307 Times in 201 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Figuratively going into teaching

    I had a thought. I often hear figurative artists and illustrators (from either side of the Atlantic) bemoaning the disheartening experience they had during college and university, when they found an academic culture dominated by abstractionist and conceptualists. Only avant-garde bullshit gained any appreciation, little or no regard was given to technical proficiency, and representational drawing was actively discouraged.

    It seems to me a long term answer to this problem would be for figurative painters to infiltrate the system and secure positions as lecturers and professors, thus eventually breaking the 'modernist' stranglehold. Anyone know of cases where this has happened, or indeed done anything similar themselves? Is it even possible for a realist to have a career in a mainstream institution of learning?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,378
    Thanks
    669
    Thanked 537 Times in 295 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by dashinvaine View Post
    Is it even possible for a realist to have a career in a mainstream institution of learning?
    Well in the US it would require obtaining at least a Masters degree in the Arts, which of course means that you'd have to go through at least that much bullshit and asskissing before getting such a job. So chances are that anybody with the base qualifications for a professorship would probably already sit in the "avant-gurde bullshit" camp. Universities are self-propagating like that.

    This is all without considering the rarity of academic jobs and the high competition for them.

    Granted there's still the one in a million shot, but a better route would seem to be going places where there's already been some headway (the few universities that do care about draftsmanship, private un-accredited schools/ateliers, et cetera).

    -My work can be found at my local directory thread.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Buckinghamshire, UK
    Posts
    1,761
    Thanks
    310
    Thanked 307 Times in 201 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    That's really it, in order to change the system from within, one would have to do a lot of playing along...

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,717
    Thanks
    2,674
    Thanked 5,931 Times in 2,384 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Yeah I agree with Anid. The way to do it. Is start your own and beat them by offering an alternative. This seems to be happening in the States. With private schools takiing over like Ringling and the SF Academy, etc. Having said that the next step would be getting programs affordable for people. The problem is it is bordering on a fad right now and everybody is teaching things that they aren't qualified to teach and how does a professional separate themselves out of the pack to people not yet ready to tell the real thing from bull shit.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    696
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 93 Times in 88 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    im not really into the american art scene, but the term avantgarde-crap is pretty generalizing. of course theres bad non figurative art, but the same goes for figurative.

    i can't really blame art academies for not being interested in the new rembrandts. why would they? we're past that point i guess. what you call avantgarde might sometimes be crap, but at least its hard to tell what new stuff they come up with, what makes it more exciting then just another guy that can perfectly draw people.

    If you feel like learning about the old masters, and a bit of basical drawing knowledge should not be underestimated, you dont really need a school for it i think. At my school, i study illustration, i dont even have weekly lifedrawing classes. its not even in the curriculum. but instead they learn me stuff about experimenting, and discovering what my weak and storng points are, and how to exploit them. I can do the technical things at home, altough it takes a lot more self discipline.

    i think at my school they underestimate the importance of a good drawing base, but i dont think it should be all about that. If i look at the progress of some young people on this website, with just the internet and a lot of drawing hours, i doubt if you really need a professor at a school to learn it.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    157
    Thanks
    57
    Thanked 80 Times in 43 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I'm in no way an expert (quite the opposite) but it's the attitude and ideas that you'll have to change, so you'd have to start an entire art movement and completely change the whole belief system of representational art being seen as already done/something to move on from. Or you could just set up your own school for figurative/representational art and teach there.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,068
    Thanks
    992
    Thanked 2,161 Times in 753 Posts
    Follows
    1
    Following
    0
    I have attended four different colleges in my time. From community college, public university, and even art school. Personally, I've been able to easily find teachers who taught figurative, naturalistic art at each of them. Maybe I'm just lucky, but the idea that schools only have abstracty teachers seems a bit dated.

    Sure, there's some of that everywhere. RISD's painting program is a joke, but their illustration program is there for anyone interested in representational art instruction (same as VCU and I suspect many schools).

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Noah Bradley For This Useful Post:


  10. #8
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    London
    Posts
    10,255
    Thanks
    3,535
    Thanked 5,476 Times in 3,685 Posts
    Follows
    1
    Following
    0
    Ah! You want to be a ninja art professor who instils his pupils with the ancient art of actually learning something. Good luck.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  11. #9
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,212
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,670 Times in 5,020 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Bradley View Post
    I have attended four different colleges in my time. From community college, public university, and even art school. Personally, I've been able to easily find teachers who taught figurative, naturalistic art at each of them. Maybe I'm just lucky, but the idea that schools only have abstracty teachers seems a bit dated.

    Sure, there's some of that everywhere. RISD's painting program is a joke, but their illustration program is there for anyone interested in representational art instruction (same as VCU and I suspect many schools).
    Exactly. There is no shortage of opportunities for figurative training in the US, at every level of education.


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Slovakia
    Posts
    4,178
    Thanks
    5,096
    Thanked 2,049 Times in 1,108 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I learned a great deal about realist painting from Anthony Apesos at the Art Inst of Boston: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Apesos

    This guy's the man. Excellent painter, and professor. Class act all the way.

    EDIT: OMG!!! He's got a blog and website now!

    http://www.apesos.com/
    http://anthonyapesos.blogspot.com/

    Last edited by TASmith; January 10th, 2010 at 03:24 PM.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  13. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    5,234
    Thanks
    3,512
    Thanked 4,900 Times in 2,544 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I've run into this so hard so many times I gave up trying. I love teaching, and I'm pretty good at it, but I was too busy with my professional art career to earn a Masters degree. With 15 years professional art and art direction experience I wasn't even considered when a job opened up at a local Junior College - even with the Dean's recommendation and letters from VP's at EA. When I applied for the Drawing and Painting Masters Degree program at a CA State University I wasn't even accepted - one of the teachers there took photos of dog poop, blew them up to 36"x48" on Duraleen and had them backlit. I just couldn't compete with that.

    But, all that aside - every school is going to have its own orientation - it is definitely true though that the the US academic world has been mired in post-modern bullshit for a long, long time. But things change. And you can definitely find opportunities for traditional study everywhere - or make your own.

    What would Caravaggio do?
    _________________________

    Portfolio
    Plein Air
    Digital
    Still Life
    Sight Measuring
    Fundamentals
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  14. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Buckinghamshire, UK
    Posts
    1,761
    Thanks
    310
    Thanked 307 Times in 201 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffX99 View Post
    I've run into this so hard so many times I gave up trying. I love teaching, and I'm pretty good at it, but I was too busy with my professional art career to earn a Masters degree. With 15 years professional art and art direction experience I wasn't even considered when a job opened up at a local Junior College - even with the Dean's recommendation and letters from VP's at EA. When I applied for the Drawing and Painting Masters Degree program at a CA State University I wasn't even accepted - one of the teachers there took photos of dog poop, blew them up to 36"x48" on Duraleen and had them backlit. I just couldn't compete with that.

    But, all that aside - every school is going to have its own orientation - it is definitely true though that the the US academic world has been mired in post-modern bullshit for a long, long time. But things change. And you can definitely find opportunities for traditional study everywhere - or make your own.
    I greatly sympathize. I'm glad others have found otherwise, but this is the sort of thing I hear time and time again. England seems to be even worse than America as regards domination by the conceptual crap brigade.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  15. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Deland Florida
    Posts
    666
    Thanks
    260
    Thanked 210 Times in 167 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Well, I suppose I'll share where I'm at in my journey towards becoming a good artist (whatever that means). I'm at the University of North Florida, a fairly new school (about 40 years old?). I can't speak for all the professors but one of my instructors has seemed to infiltrate the system. How you say? Well, she does a lot of dada-esc stuff (but completely not dada at all) and it's what she's known for. However, she is infact quite the technical artist. And when she teaches many of the courses, she focuses on the technical aspects and encourages personal research of various artists of skill including the old masters. Hopefully I got lucky! ^.^

    The Sketchbook of Naj and Stu!:
    SKETCHBOOK

    And of course go check out the SB of DefiledVisions
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Register

Developed Actively by vBSocial.com
The Art Department
SpringOfSea's Sketchbook