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Thread: How does concept art benefit society?

  1. #31
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    Armando,

    You don't get to difine art for anyone but yourself. You may have an opinion on what or what isn't art or what or what is good or bad art but that is just your opinion. We all have them and most of us probably wouldn't agree about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by armando View Post
    At this time I would like to recommend Irving Copi's "Introduction to Logic".
    Sorry Armando, but all I get from this is that you think that we, unlike you, are not gifted with the ability to sort through enough information or do enough research to make sense of our art within the larger context of the world, and because we're naive little artists, not geniuses or supercomputers we should just give up. Am I getting this right?


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    I think armando offers some interesting thoughts here. Simply because an idea conflicts with the popular "We're All Special Snowflakes"-theory doesn't mean it's necessarily insane and evil.

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    If art inspires, motivates or makes people happy...isn't that good enough? Maybe you can design safer educational toys for children, or illustrations in National Geographic? But there's nothing really stopping you from creating your own fundraiser or donating art to a good cause.

    At East Bay Regional Park District I would design and illustrate info panels at Camp Arroyo to promote recycling and pro-green themes. The camp is open to terminally ill and disadvantaged children, it was nice place where they weren't judged based on their background. The majority of camp itself is made out of recycled materials, which was really neat.

    Last edited by Pigeonkill; January 10th, 2010 at 01:33 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katfayheirti View Post
    Sorry Armando, but all I get from this is that you think that we, unlike you, are not gifted with the ability to sort through enough information or do enough research to make sense of our art within the larger context of the world, and because we're naive little artists, not geniuses or supercomputers we should just give up. Am I getting this right?
    You're getting it wrong. I was annoyed by the degree of misinterpretation that was happening. If people want to communicate more efficiently they have to know something about logic. What I'm writing is an amalgamation of things I learned from people older, smarter, and more experienced than me.
    The type of intelligence I was refering to I labeled as "vital intelligence" which I understand as an ability to interpret and evaluate life. Just like there are geniuses in physical science who make various discoveries which improve our life, so there are geniuses of this other nature making different kinds of discoveries. In the same way as we get used to the discoveries of the scientist, so too we take the other discoveries for granted, unaware of the effect on our life. Just like the scientist can't progress in knowledge without building on the discoveries of the past, it is the same with the artist. Not everyone has this ability. It isn't disrespectful to admit that, rather it's disrespectful to pretend that everyone can do it thus undermining the greats. It's also not disrespectful to admit that the majority of "artist" are actually just a bunch of dabblers who quit after a few months.

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    Until you get to a point in your career were you can be more hands-on with charities to give back, just do what I do, donate 1% of whatever you make, every pay check to the charity of your choice (mine is the American Red Cross). Its a small enough amount that you won't miss it but its enough that at least you're doing something.

    Also you don't have to be an amazing artist to give back, especially to children. While I was growing up, one of my dad's friends created "The Carpet of Peace". This "carpet" would be taken all over the world and children were told to draw a copy of their hand on a piece of construction paper and decorate it with any messages of peace. Then they would shake the the creator's hand (Doug Erwin) and he'd give them a speach about how they were then shaking the hand of everyone else on the carpet. This "carpet" had so many hands that it ended up being over afootball field long. It was a project that I was proud to volunteer with and it deserves to be in a museum some day.

    A project like that didn't require artistic skill (although he is a great artist), just think of a project and you can find a way to make it a reality.

    And for those replying with sarcastic remarks, shame on you. People who want and do give back should be encouraged because it doesn't happen enough.

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    Armando, what you're saying is interesting, but I think you should give some examples, both of the geniuses that have discovered (what exactly? self reflections, new art techniques or styles?), and the flavor sensations that merely confuse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur 'Two Sheds' View Post
    I don't know why people get so emo about making money from art. It's called working. How does it benefit society? It feeds your kids.
    I think it comes from the two alternative perceptions of an artist: one as a useless entertainer, a clown to amuse you , OR as some kind of visionary prophet, messaiah of life's truths, nothing short of a second jesus.

    Nobody questions the necessity of shoe-sellers to the society. Also nobody expects them to change the world. They can live in peace and just do their work.
    Not so with an artist. As you can see in this thread, even artists themselves go out to call their job useless or "masturbatory". Nobody wants to feel useless, so to feel better they might fall into the second extreme "the allimportant messaiah", which on the other hand may make them feel unsecure about their financial stability as well as maybe not worthy of the Mission. So you are either useless or starving and ucertain. Combine it with the fact that to become either you need to work your ass off practicing (instead of just getting hired in a shoe shop) and you know where "angst" comes from.

    I really wish there was more respect to an artist as an accomplished craftsman, without deriding him for just doing his job.
    That is why my comments might be snarky, and do keep your shame to yourself, I ain't buying.

    Armando

    I am not sure what to read from your to posts, but the only view I seem hold similar to yours is that I believe that in order to create wise and meaningful art you need to be a wise and meaningful artist, and being wise and meaningful is something not everybody has. I do not believe that you need to be some sort of born genius to create meaningful art, and I am opposed to not calling meaningful art -"art".
    And I dont know many scientists but Im pretty sure most of them are intelligent but overall quite normal people working in teams to do their job. Geniuses are rare. And refusing a title of "scientist" to anyone who is not Einstein is just plain wrong.
    By analogy so is claiming that artist's art is a worthless "confusion" without worth or meaning just because he is not <enter a name of your fav artist here>.

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    Chainmail bikinis by day, save the whales, the aids and the ice caps by night. Thats how i do it.

    And don't feel bad, things that are good for society are often very bad for the environment. For every plastic wrapped random item you DON'T buy you save .004 of a whale.

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    A consumer society benefits from those that produce consumables. Now, whether or not a consumer society is a benefit to its population...is a different matter

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    May be too late to jump in but here's my two cents...

    Quote Originally Posted by TASmith View Post
    Concept art is an industry the helps visualize imagery for films, comics, videogames, and various other, similar projects.
    Actually concept design for entertainment is only a small piece of the pie which has developed from the larger Industrial Design field. In general, every product that goes through a planning, enginieering, and manufacturing process, from architecture to toys, is designed by artists before anything ever happens. Anyway, whether another new cell phone is a "benefit" to society is questionable...but as has been pointed out it certainly benefits the person designing it to make a paycheck.

    In the larger view...I believe artsits are the most important people in any given culture - as the visionaries who provide insight into the human condition and those that design and thus drive technology, artists are at the nexus of both social commentary and practical application.

    Visaul Art is the oldest form or recorded human activity we have somewhere in the 100,000 year range now - yes we were probably dancing, playing music and engaging in sporting competitions but that is all ephemeral and could not benefit from being recorded on cave walls and sealed with natural varnish. To address Armando's point - I'm not sure there is any difference between drawing a bison hunting scene on a wall and drawing a Japanese girl in chainmail with katanas.

    I too was very much concerned about the same question of contributing to society - the best advice I heard when I was young was to make as much money as I could and supprt/donate to charities/causes as I felt I could.

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    my teacher gave a story about his friend, a comic artist who was asked to draw a How to comic for a small illiterate town in India. And the feedback he was getting was why are some of the people's bodies cut off. He used borders and the people there weren't really familiar with that western style of storytelling at all. Thought it was funny, because I never even thought about it that way. Anyway, I think art is a tool for communication, and communication is definitely helpful and needed in society. cultural differences might not enable everyone to get the art, just like not everyone across the world knows what a thumbs up mean.

    and about being a concept artist for GTA, I dont think what's helpful to society has to be so straightforward or obviously spelled out for us. its a game and there are many proven positive aspects of videogames, but I dont mean to derail the thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slash View Post
    Chainmail bikinis by day, save the whales, the aids and the ice caps by night. Thats how i do it.

    And don't feel bad, things that are good for society are often very bad for the environment. For every plastic wrapped random item you DON'T buy you save .004 of a whale.
    It's too bad that concept artists contribute to creating goods like toys, video games and movies with packaging that's all plastic :/

    In the larger view...I believe artsits are the most important people in any given culture.
    And I'd disagree. In a huge disaster, when society is all but destroyed, many dead and injured and our physical infrastructure is about to collapse, you don't have people running through the streets yelling "I need an artist!" they need doctors, engineers, mechanics, tradesmen and those with practical knowledge that benefits them right then and there.

    That's what our society is built on, that's what the majority of people do, and I really hate some of the elitism I see when artists talk about their feild and how others didn't quite "make it." It's a good thing we have those who do the mundane jobs so we don't have to worry about where our food comes from, how the parts of every device we own is made, ow our water is processed, how the roads are maintained and how goods are transported so can make pretty pictures all day.

    I'm not saying that artists are good for nothing though, don't get me wrong; in times of crisis artists can inspire and raise awareness, and we need those who speak a visual languange to make information easier to process and goods and services easier to sell. But in a crisis I'd rather have one guy who knows how to drive a backhoe or knows how to wire up a building than a whole team of artists. Artists are the icing on the cake of society, and a neccessary cog in the entertainment industry, but I really don't think they're the most important people in society.

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    That's fine to disagree - but please don't go off on personal stuff like "elitism" and how "others didn't make it" implying they are worthless.

    Anyway, you make some really good points - I was just expressing my ideas about things in a very abstract sense. Everyone is important and I should have worded that more like "the artist's role in society". I don't want to get in a big thing over it because it is more of a pub conversation than something easily discussed here. But I'll try to give a little bit of an example of what I meant: artists are the driving force behind the development of technology - so are responsible for that backhoe - the buildings, etc. The reason I think this is: when you have two people chipping at stones to make tools, points, a better way to throw a spear - the artist will likely create the better tool, implement that is more finely crafted and therefor better - thus improving society.

    Like I said - pretty abstract and more just a discussion point.

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    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”

    -Albert Einstein

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    Last edited by Pigeonkill; January 10th, 2010 at 07:41 PM.
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    I dunno. It provides jobs for all of those slackers who didn't want to be doctors.

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    Imaginative design has quite often resulted in real world inventions.

    A great many inventions that have come to pass were first introduced in science fiction (lasers, satellites, global communications systems, telescreens, two-way wrist radios, test tube babies, portable media, nanobots, scuba diving, cloaking devices, robotic protocols, cloning, etc.)

    Think through the problems you are faced with and seek out the fresh solution. And you may find you have set in motion a chain of inspiration that will change the world.

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    P.S. TA, you probably shouldn't assume Armando is parroting anybody. That was a pretty cheap ploy to get some more of those dearly loved Lounge Points™ of yours.

    And I don't enjoy your attempts to marginalize me by pretending to speak for others in saying that my ideas "aren't widely accepted." You don't know what I believe. You don't know who has understood me properly, and who among them has sympathy with my take on things. So remember, you speak for yourself only. Learn to keep your online popularity politics off my radar and we'll be cool. Thanks.

    EDIT: Guess that was too much to ask. Way to double down on your cheap shots. Try this: Address the argument alone. And your point about what I said about respect in that free speech/cartoon thread has been completely ripped out of the context. Your entire post below was irrelevant... just ad hoc slanders in bad faith as a way to justify your previous irrelevant remarks. Awful.

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    Hey Thanks Pigeonkill! I also always liked, "Imagination is more important than knowledge".

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    Posted by Kev:
    "P.S. TA, you probably shouldn't assume Armando is parroting anybody. That was a pretty cheap ploy to get some more of those dearly loved Lounge Points™ of yours. And I don't enjoy your attempts to marginalize me by pretending to speak for others in saying that my ideas "aren't widely accepted." You don't know what I believe. You don't know who has understood me properly, and who among them has sympathy with my take on things. So remember, you speak for yourself only. Learn to keep your online popularity politics off my radar and we'll be cool. Thanks."

    Kev, I've read over all your statements on art, I know what you believe, and saying it's not widely accepted is a fact, not a critique, it has nothing to do with the value of your statements. And I'm not speaking for anyone when I say it. I never implied Armando was parroting anyone. What I said was not about forum politics, but pertinent to the discussion, as Armando's views on art had to do with what does or doesn't benefit society, etc.

    On the topic of forum popularity, so far as I can tell, we both only want to participate normally in discussion, to be well liked, respected, learn a bit about new topics, and have a few laughs. But look at how you go about it. If I do a forum search on topics you've posted in the lounge, all I see are entry points for debate in which you pick some random person to squash in your endless pursuit of the "truth". Because the truth is always more important than how you treat other people on this site, to the point where no one's sure if you care so much about that, or soothing your own beast of an ego. It's getting to the point where we need a support group for all the bashing you've done. Hell, I can't even talk about the weather without you calling me a mind-controlled lemming.

    I'm not writing here for your enjoyment. I don't care what you think or what's on your radar. The discussions on this site are not made just for your benefit. I was taken aback in your recent Danish Cartoon post that you went so far as to tell Marria, "you've lost my respect," on the first thread where you two even spoke together, especially when I was able to get him/her to say something you could agree with, by treating Marria nicely. That's you in a nutshell. You think the point of each little discussion is whether we're good enough for your respect? Why would anyone randomly typing on the internet, especially a newcomer from Pakistan who knows nothing about you, give a damn about earning your respect? What about you earning his/her respect? Who died and made you king, kev? Your judgment is not word of law.

    Honestly, you're worried about me putting you down, or making you look a fool on this site? Look back at your pattern of conduct, and reevaluate it. Or don't, and just keep editing/deleting your posts, and making silly little duplicate accounts to "thank people" (you're a paragon of maturity, btw)... Eitherway I won't see it. I'm sticking you on my ignore list now, as the quickest, best way for me to enjoy conceptart even more in 2010. And any PM's or messages sent will be deleted without reading. I'm sick of your bullshit. There's too much to cut through to ever get to anything wise. I recommend everyone else do the same.

    Last edited by TASmith; January 16th, 2010 at 01:32 AM.
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    Just whatever you do, don't use your art to make fun of society, or sensitive issues. People will get you for this and and you could start a conflict. Just look at the dutch cartoons that made fun of Muslims, and see where it got them. Or the Da Vinci Code that made Catholics angry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FallenGodX11 View Post
    Just whatever you do, don't use your art to make fun of society, or sensitive issues. People will get you for this and and you could start a conflict. Just look at the dutch cartoons that made fun of Muslims, and see where it got them. Or the Da Vinci Code that made Catholics angry.
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    Seriously?

    I normally don't do this.. but you know..

    go draw.

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    Concept art on it's own doesn't benefit shit. A concept artist is akin to a factory worker during industrial revolution. Part of a bigger whole. And that 'whole' benefits the society by entertaining it.

    So art and creativity in general can benefit by entertaining. Concept art is just one of the cogs in that machine, and not THAT important of a cog either.

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    Any art is meme-generation, and concept art is another meme generator.

    In Darwinian evolution, phenotypes are acted upon by various forces and selected for based on their contribution to the overall fitness of an organism. These phenotypes are the expressions of genes, and the genes have a certain frequency within a population. The variation for these genes comes from subtle mutations, and that mutagenetic potential is measurable and variable depending on the species.

    All art, culture, language, etc has a certain "mutagenetic potential", a tiny bit of variance from artist to artist. Occasionally you get a trend setter, the equivalent of a frame-shift mutation or polyploidy, a big genetic change. Big changes can either spell the doom or the success of a species, while small changes tend to accumulate, ratchet the change of a species in the survival direction. The death you see is nature throwing her clay.

    Similarly, artists, and for specificity's sake concept artists, represent a certain source of memetic (as opposed to genetic) variation. Our businesses, nations, communities, and individual artists are the organisms. Some memes need to be preserved, for the same reason that some large percentage of genes is preserved from generation to generation: this happens when we go to school for art, or learn here on concept art, or learn from observation of other artwork. We inevitably preserve the core memes, otherwise we would fall apart. Many memes are survival memes: tits, guns, robots. These are standbys, core memetic material that most of the organisms return to for stability. We all vary on these themes slightly in our own way, more or less drastically.

    So I suppose that, asking how does concept art benefit society is like asking how does mutation benefit an organism? The answer:

    It usually doesn't benefit the individual organism, in fact, most of the time, it doesn't do a damned thing. However on the whole, mutation is the main source of variation for a species collectively to be able to adapt. But nature has killed many, many species that have adapted themselves into a hole, and it's impossible to predict which ones will survive in the long term, too many variables to keep track of.

    Concept art is just another source of ideas. Some of them good, some of them bad, the vast majority of them neutral, and the long term outcome is incredibly hard to gauge. "We'll see."

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    if it doesnt work talking about "not available in your contry" just klick on it

    Last edited by Adrian Wilkins; January 11th, 2010 at 05:56 PM.
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  34. #56
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    I accidently became a medic, turns out medics are valuable to society , now I can do anything else and not give a s**t whether I'm positively "contributing to society" or not because I get blood on my hands ^_^, not that I really worried about it in the first place. I know who I am, it's not 'til you try something that you find whether you're capable of it or not. If you work your ass off, in no matter what subject or feild, one is contributing to society , Architects : we all need somewhere to live, go to school etc. Illustrators, damn those buildings would be less awesome without the occasional peice of art. hell man just do it and embrace the suck, make the days yours by enjoying every bloody part of them.

    ~"With a little hope, and alot of try, anything is possible."~
    ~"The harder You work, the better life gets."~
    ~"The pain doesn't last, but the gain will last forever."~
    ~"Fear is my courage." ~Mr_S_14
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  36. #57
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    Regarding Adrian Wilson's post of the video "Home":

    It's a documentary like that which inspires a very strong urge to drop what I'm doing and devote my life to my other great passion: science education.

    If you have watched it and have the same urge, consider coming to the International Space Development Conference this year. The main theme will be Space Based Solar Power (SBSP), the ultimate clean energy source.

    www.isdc2010.org

    I hope I'm forgiven for the plug....

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