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Thread: Team Chow III - Nameless Operatives

  1. #14
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    Wow, that's a beautiful picture

    Well, you don't have to make the empress look like Catherine, just because we set the time frame during her reign^^ A century later is also fine - I don't think the clothing changed that much, at least not ceremony clothing or dresses of princesses.

    I read somewhere that Russia around that time was strongly influenced by Germany, so the nobility wore nearly the same stuff as their European equivalents, maybe with some touch of those folk dresses I posted above.
    The latter ones were worn until Peter the Great or around 1900 on masked balls.

    Edit: (somehow I edit nearly every post Ô_o) Well, that is except for those kokoshniks, a head-dress worn by woman and girls. The woman above and Catherine the Great both wear it.
    Last edited by Tagtraum; December 28th, 2009 at 06:28 PM.
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  3. #15
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    Germany's influence is mainly because of the close relationship the nobility had. It's noted that until Maria, most consorts of the Kings/Emperors of Russia came from Germany and it's surrounding area.

    And no, you are correct. She doesn't have to look the same. But I also just like Maria's crowns more.
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  4. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ephelea View Post
    Germany's influence is mainly because of the close relationship the nobility had. It's noted that until Maria, most consorts of the Kings/Emperors of Russia came from Germany and it's surrounding area.

    And no, you are correct. She doesn't have to look the same. But I also just like Maria's crowns more.
    Mh, but I think close relationships among the nobility are strongly influencing the fashion, aren't they?
    Anyway, doesn't really matter. There was some nice movie on TV last year about War and Peace ... that's around 1800, so the dresses they wear there (or in other movies about that book) might be a good reference.
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  5. #17
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    I'll keep googling.
    Hopefully, Curly logs on and checks this out soon >_>..so she can input her say.
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  6. #18
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    Okay. It's already 1 AM here so I don't know how long I can stay awake ... Will search for some other stuff, though.
    For the magician I could imagine something like the evil Koshchei or, something more friendly, Father Frost.
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  7. #19
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    So, I was reading! And Queens/Empresses got to wear gold gowns or silver gowns/embroidered or gowns made with gold/silver material, however Grand Duchesses/Princesses got to wear Silver, but only if the Queen wasn't or she was wearing gold.

    Also, I suppose the Princesses could be wearing the the "kaftan" type dresses, but I'm more than sure that they'd be well made and hand embroidered. And probably also have jewels But still no pictures to say that they did (wish they did less revolutionizing and more cataloging in Russia. ) I also watched Anastasia, because I'm rather fond of the movie. >_>.. But apparently, it's far fetched. And, women who were unmarried also apparently covered their shoulders, while married women didn't.

    Btw: Did you consider that the Magician could be Rasputin if we went with Nicholas II And the "Princesses" could be two of his four daughters? Just another idea. Since we have yet to get anything concrete.

    Curly, any comments, thoughts, ideas?
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  8. #20
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    That's really interesting ... May I ask where you did your research?
    You're right about the kaftan ... I just found this explanation about the court dresses:

    The first change to this new dress happened in the 1840s, when the velvet overdress (sarafan) and silk under dress (caftan) were adapted to fit contemporary corseted fashions. The costume became three separate pieces, rather than two; an embroidered white silk underskirt, over which was placed a waist-hung train, and a corseted bodice which incorporated the long muscovite sleeves and an embroidered white silk "corsage." The illusion of the assembled tripartite gown was similar in effect to that of a robe worn over an under dress.

    Also required to be worn was the Kokoshnik, a diadem-like headdress. For women of the Imperial family these were originally jewel-studded velvet, with pearl-trimmed plain velvet for their attendants. Long, floor-length tulle veils were worn by married ladies.
    http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/ctcostume.html

    Yeah ... I also thought of Rasputin for the magician, but to be honest I feel a bit uncomfortable with the idea of using Tsar Nicholas' family for the cards, I don't exactly know why.
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  9. #21
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    Different sites, one was a musuem tour through "Alexander's Palace" or something similar - one was an entire site of links about clothing and I focused on imperial/royal clothing, mainly just googled and read.
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  10. #22
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    Hi guys! Sorry for beeing late - this New Year rush caught me hard I've took knight of wands too.
    I'm strongly against to wear them all at clothes from some period or country,though I really like the references you found. I've entered the contest because I wanted to develop more of my own style. And do not forget the mistical point of the tarot - simply standing princess is not good,you have to search for inner simbolism of the card, like what things she should posses,what she represents. I suggest to go with a designing a frame for every card. About the world I'd rather prefer something dark and mistical, with some artefacts and weird effects. Which can also suit our team name. I've got to make a tort for New Year Party. I'll try to be more involved - the party is taking most of the efforts now Happy New Year
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  11. #23
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    Curly,
    While i agree that the cards should hold a 'mystical' portion, or symbolism - it doesn't make it impossible by choosing a theme. I planned on adding a pomegranate, swans, wheat fields..etc. All parts of symbolism. And while the "Russian" part may seem imposing, it also doesn't cut out the ability to portray your own style. We need to be able to point out why our cards work together in a pack. They have to have something that makes them work together.

    So, if we scrapped the "Russian" theme - what would we do to make our cards work together? We're cutting it close to the 'deadline' so the speak and we need to get our ideas in the right place.
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  12. #24
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    I agree with Ephelea ... And we don't have to stick to the Russian theme *that* close anyway, just enough to make it noticeable.
    By the way, I'm not sure about the symbolism. On wikipedia it says that the cards were originally not mystical, so I guess there was no symbolism either. Which makes me think that it is not necessary for the set, but optional.
    (Not saying I'm against it, just mentioning)
    The knight and the magician can be drawn rather freely anyway. Uhm ... an idea that just came to me (maybe you like it, that's up to you):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossacks
    Maybe that would be a start for the knight, if you agree with the Russian theme. I think your own style doesn't depend on what you draw, but how
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  13. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tagtraum View Post
    I agree with Ephelea ... And we don't have to stick to the Russian theme *that* close anyway, just enough to make it noticeable.
    By the way, I'm not sure about the symbolism. On wikipedia it says that the cards were originally not mystical, so I guess there was no symbolism either. Which makes me think that it is not necessary for the set, but optional.
    (Not saying I'm against it, just mentioning)
    The knight and the magician can be drawn rather freely anyway. Uhm ... an idea that just came to me (maybe you like it, that's up to you):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossacks
    Maybe that would be a start for the knight, if you agree with the Russian theme. I think your own style doesn't depend on what you draw, but how
    You do realize if you cut out the symbolism, you simply have a person standing there? I wouldn't take Wiki without having looked at other sources as well.
    And, regardless of what the cards were once - how do you look at a tarot card, if not for symbolism and mysticism? They may not be 'magical' per say, but people hold a lot of feeling towards what the cards may mean - what the symbolism of a dress of pomegranates and a field of wheat, a crown of stars may mean, and just like the Bible (which to some people is simply a book,) holds symbolism, and in a way 'religious mysticism.' If you take out these pieces, the symbolism, you'll cut yourself short in the character concept areas.
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  14. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ephelea View Post
    You do realize if you cut out the symbolism, you simply have a person standing there? I wouldn't take Wiki without having looked at other sources as well.
    And, regardless of what the cards were once - how do you look at a tarot card, if not for symbolism and mysticism? They may not be 'magical' per say, but people hold a lot of feeling towards what the cards may mean - what the symbolism of a dress of pomegranates and a field of wheat, a crown of stars may mean, and just like the Bible (which to some people is simply a book,) holds symbolism, and in a way 'religious mysticism.' If you take out these pieces, the symbolism, you'll cut yourself short in the character concept areas.
    Well, I did look it up on other pages, with the same result: They were playing cards from France, nothing more, until Antoine Court de Gébelin saw them in Paris, believing they were from Egypt origin and contained a deeper symbolism that encoded ancient wisdom.
    As I understood it, the cards already contained those attributes like pomegranates and stuff, but they were not meant as symbols / with a deeper meaning, the cards were just designed that way. We can add them, of course, but I wouldn't stick too close to them, because at least some ones are very limiting.

    As for only having a person standing there if we cut out the symbolism ... Well, normal playing cards don't have those symbols either and if you look for different tarot sets there are also some that don't include them.

    By the way, the frame we should use for the cards is rather strange, don't you think?
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