Poll: live streaming figure drawing???
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View Poll Results: Would you take open online figure classes to sharpen your skills?

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  • Yes, I would use the live streaming figure sessions!

    102 54.55%
  • No thanks though.

    33 17.65%
  • Yes I would use the live streaming classes if there was teaching involved

    56 29.95%
  • Yes but only if there were outside assignments and critques given with the instructed class.

    37 19.79%
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  1. #1
    Jason Manley's Avatar
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    Poll: live streaming figure drawing???

    We have been working on some ways in which we think we can run live streaming figure drawing here on the site using our online school technology. I had planned on starting it in March but the ladies have requested that this happen so I wanted to put it to a poll.



    It could work like this:

    a. we set up a beautiful nude and draped figure model and light it so that it looks good on camera...and stream it out to the world. The classes would mix a series of timed poses in 2-90 minute duration to get started.

    - 5 two minute poses
    - 5 three minute poses
    - 5 five minute poses
    - 1 ten minute pose
    - 1 thirty minute pose
    - 1 ninety minute pose


    The main issue is that the figure, though alive and breathing and posing would not have the visual phenomenon that happens when you shift your head slightly and the figure looks different because you can see around the form. However for people without the luxury of having a model every day this could be a great solution. The model would at least be moving and breathing and changing poses...muscles flexing..relaxing...better than drawing from photo ref in that case.

    I was thinking we could do it as affordably as possible for the open uninstructed classes. Five bucks would be a good starting point...perhaps to run some tests and see if there is enough support to cover the financial needs of having the model and running the open sessions. Maybe we sell the m in weekly and monthly packages. Starting with two per week? Can also have it open enrollment but if it is full there would be no getting in. So will have to think on that. Classes requiring full time teachers would be at a much higher tuition cost, but could also include assignments and lectures. Not sure how we would have to price that yet. Will meet on it. For now I would think the live figure sessions would be five to ten dollars at most...probably five. Gotta run tests and make sure it is supported before doing it is all. The ladies were for it. So here I am.

    We also will be doing some more structured figure classes with instruction and lectures but for now we are just looking at open figure drawing. Would this interest you at all?

    Would you support this option?

    If the community supports this, we could begin doing it fairly quickly, but I do not want to do something right now unless I know that it is going to get the support. I can't bring it all in and then watch no one show up...but since it seems like a really great thing to do, I thought to ask and see what your thoughts were.

    If It is something I lead, I will spend at least a few minutes talking about figure related matters like body language or anatomical mark making or line quality for weight, tension, space, and light....but for the most part would be open figure. I know I would do it but I wanted to ask you first.

    Let us know!

    Also if you can let us know which times are best for you all we can take that into consideration too. We have to deal with schedules here too but will do what we can.


    Best,



    Jason

    Last edited by Jason Manley; December 27th, 2009 at 01:32 AM.
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  3. #2
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    How often would these sessions be?

    I would definitely try this out, if there were teaching involved. It would be really convenient. But I have to wonder how much different this would be than just drawing from nude photo references? (though the live teaching would be great)

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    I agree with Ryan K, what would sell it to me is def the teaching as I have no access to it here, else it wouldn't be much different than nude photo ref.

    Time would also be a big thing for me as often the on demand classes land up being like at 2am and I really just cant do much at that time after a full days work.

    Will they also be on demand?

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    I just wanted to say vote honestly you guys, don't give Jason false results to appease his feelings. On another note NO DRAMA!

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    Maybe, but I doubt it could accurately replicate true life-drawing. It seems like it wouldn't be more than just drawing from photo reference.

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  7. #6
    Jason Manley's Avatar
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    Drawing a living breathing thing, even on photo ref is different than photo ref. The shifting of emotion...the slight changes in body language..a photo is already captured for you. Something alive...not so much!

    We can also all work from the same thing.

    Choose as you wish. This is about whether or not this community would want it as a service and how it would want it.


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    I think that the real advantage here is that unlike one person working on a single image, you'd have multiple people working on the same thing... Considering this is a forum that allows attaching of images, people would have the ability to post and compare the work they've done and receive feedback from one another.

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    For $5 I would definately use the open/uninstructed classes, probably not more then 1-2 a week, I'd probably use it less often at $10. Yes its similar to drawing from photos but even though I could sit around and draw from pictures all day, I don't, that sounds really boring. But drawing here would kinda force me to draw and would be an incentive to really get an active sketchbook, which I don't have and is one of my goals for 2010. What I also like it being online is that I could do the sketching in pencil or with my tablet.

    I'd love some sessions of figures in costume, in things that people paint often but are hard to really find...maybe a guy in armor, two people fighting, a soldier in uniform, a woman in a medival dress. I'd be willing to pay alittle more for those since models with those might be harder to find or more expensive.

    I'd prefer more short poses then long ones but this seems to have a decent amount. Because I'm a student already, I don't need more homework so I wouldn't pay for an instructed class with assignments/crits. I dunno how the tech works but maybe you could run both at the same time? I mean have one classroom that's no teacher just showing the model, cheaper price and the other classroom showing the same model at the same time but you get all the instruction and crits/assignments for a bit more?

    My schedule is pretty open so anytime works but the more time given in advance would mean I could keep that open on my calendar, preferably at least 1-2 weeks prior notice. I hope this happens! weee

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    I'd be totally down for this.

    You could even record these to sell them to people that miss a few.

    And I don't mind just having the streaming video without lectures. A lecture here and there would be nice. But the $5 for a sessions sounds like a good plan. Add teachers and that gets into double digits that makes these classes, such a crucial part of learning, less accessible to us poor folks.

    Voting for Yes!, but with some variety.

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    I would, depending on price. I would definitely pay more if there was teaching involved.

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    I'm undecided, so far. I like the aspect that it would be a group activity at a set time, pretty much forcing me to get my arse in gear from multiple angles. From that, I expect it not to be available on demand.

    But then, it's still a 2D image. A moving 2D image (as much as a figure is allowed to @:-) but still 2D, and I think that might be a main wall for me personally.

    Then again, there are no life drawing classes available to me in my current town, and it is something I miss from my Brisbane days (Queensland Animators is dead, long live Queensland Animators). And at $5 a session, if I remember correctly, is cheaper than the classes I used to take, which had no teaching, just comparisons between class members if you wanted.

    So yeah... Undecided. I would like to take a trial run and see how it treats me. Always keen to support. @:-) My available times would have to be between 4pm-10pm weekdays GMT+10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Kobrin View Post
    Maybe, but I doubt it could accurately replicate true life-drawing. It seems like it wouldn't be more than just drawing from photo reference.
    Guys, there's nothing evil about photo reference. The big mistake people make when using them is copying them exactly. People often take the compositional/cropping/lighting choices from the photographer instead of using the photo reference as a study tool or reference for particular parts of a pose.

    That being said, a streamed figure drawing session would be somewhat different. Most likely there would be the full figure within a large field of view so YOU can make the cropping decisions. Lighting would probably be somewhat random or perhaps a particular type of lighting (zenithal etc) would be a request or a topic of study. Everything would be set up so you could STUDY this figure, crop him/her however YOU wanted.. the figure would not remain perfectly still, unlike a static photograph.

    I vote yes, instruction or not (however this is because, personally, I've taken several figure drawing classes)

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    OH MY GOD!

    If this was even 10 bucks (though five bucks sounds nicer). My god. Seriously. I would not deny it! This is an awesome idea! Especially since I hate getting out of the house, and driving like 30-60 minutes to somewhere that probably does this.

    Last edited by velderia; December 27th, 2009 at 03:47 AM.
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    Sounds like a really good idea. You might want to moderate new users signing up cos who knows what pervs it might attract from around the web? Just a thought.

    Alas, since I live in Australia its highly unlikely the sessions will be at a time that I could participate

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    I'd probably check it out, just to see if it was any different to me, personally. Especially for $5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kittymeow84 View Post
    You might want to moderate new users signing up cos who knows what pervs it might attract from around the web?
    Honestly I'm not sure I'd be too concerned about this. If people want to look at naked people for "pervy" purposes, there are plenty of places online to do that for free. The difference being those...uh...body positions aren't exactly geared towards the same purposes at all.

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    FOr 5$ I'll give it a try for sure.

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    maybe a 3 tier paying system so that those that can shell out just $5 get just the unsupervised drawing, those that can pay more can get access to a little lecture/assigment and then another tier to receve personalised crits?
    That way every can join in but yeah more of a logistcal headache.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aphotic Phoenix View Post
    Honestly I'm not sure I'd be too concerned about this. If people want to look at naked people for "pervy" purposes, there are plenty of places online to do that for free. The difference being those...uh...body positions aren't exactly geared towards the same purposes at all.
    Yeh I know that You just neeeeever know with these things.....I mean, I used to go on a braces forum and there was always trouble with pervs wanting to get off on pictures of people's shackled teeth. If that kind of thing attracts weirdos then this just might too.

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  22. #20
    Jason Manley's Avatar
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    Richie that is exactly what I was thinking. I will discuss with the others.

    If there is enough support we must discuss times that are best to do it.

    Any input on time of day? Please use PST if you have input on that. I have to deal w ith my own schedule and that of MB too.

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    I'm totally down with this, better if there were crits involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by kittymeow84 View Post
    there was always trouble with pervs wanting to get off on pictures of people's shackled teeth.
    lol wat?

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    I just had an idea: stereoscopic images, imax style...
    No really!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pezzle View Post
    Guys, there's nothing evil about photo reference. The big mistake people make when using them is copying them exactly. People often take the compositional/cropping/lighting choices from the photographer instead of using the photo reference as a study tool or reference for particular parts of a pose.

    That being said, a streamed figure drawing session would be somewhat different. Most likely there would be the full figure within a large field of view so YOU can make the cropping decisions. Lighting would probably be somewhat random or perhaps a particular type of lighting (zenithal etc) would be a request or a topic of study. Everything would be set up so you could STUDY this figure, crop him/her however YOU wanted.. the figure would not remain perfectly still, unlike a static photograph.

    I vote yes, instruction or not (however this is because, personally, I've taken several figure drawing classes)
    I'm going to be a bit presumptuous here and say that Jake probably wasn't condemning photo reference. However, you will be drawing a flat, albeit moving, image.

    As for the poll, I will not be using it. Good luck, though.

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    Smile

    Interesting idea, I'll give it a shot!

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    Its an interesting idea, the teired payment for affordability purposes is very appealing, all of us come from different walks of life, and so do our wallets. I do like the more educational approach to recent things like this idea, and the composition download, these fundementals are always so important, and are really the building blocks to good art and illustration.

    But uhhhh, how about a color theory download/class now, its the missing piece!! =P

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    I agree with Richie- f it indeed would be 5USD at lowest cost then I would consider it.

    Also, if you record them and sell them then I could imagine paying more for it. Up to 10 USD per model and hour. So according to that suggestion of yours Jason, I could imagine paying 30 USD for the three hour downloadable vid with the model.

    I understand that piracy is still an issue, just saying so you know I would be willing to pay.

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    Sounds awesome!
    My personal continual involvement will be pretty severely hindered by timezone differences, but I'm up for some late night (or early morning) online life drawing any time it doesn't conflict with my schedule. I'll be sure to spread the word too!

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    this would be great thing!

    5 bucks per session, uninstructed, sold! start it next week! optional lectures would be great.

    i don't have the luxury of a regular class to draw the human figure. it's better than drawing from photographs and a lot more fun with other people drawing the same thing at the same time.

    the big problem is that whole time zone crap...

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    i think the idea is really good, but my main concern is how are you guys going to solve the time issue.
    My time is aproximately streaming time + 8h , so if it will be really really late i will be to tired from work to stay up.

    Other than that, i think that having an organized schedule ( streaming sessions in dayX and/or dayY) will actually force me to sit down and do the work. And this would be really, really useful for me.

    Even if they will not be in 3D, having different light and different poses will be a great improvement from searching photos i would like to draw. And I will know that i have to draw rather than looking for excuses.

    And yes, i am willing to pay extra if i could get some crits. I understand that since there will be a lot of people attending it will not be possible to crit everyones work in-depth, but even a small crit would be very useful.

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    the easy solution for the time problem obviously is to give people access to the stream for 24 to 48 hours. although it's a real bugger to miss out on the live feeling.

    the only way for me to attend live regulary would be very early in the morning (late evening in the us) or in the afternoon (early morning in the us)

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