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  1. #61
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    Yup, let's go for the ace's.

    Other favorites are Fool, Strength, hanged man and tower.

    Nightblue, I'll be watching you cos you can kick some serious ass too.
    Last edited by Tommoy; December 26th, 2009 at 07:26 PM.


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  4. #62
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    the topic must be an ace in the hole for you guy.

  5. #63
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    Tim : I was hoping the team would go with an ace each so I quite agree I’m not sure how the cup and sword and all of those translate into “colour” cards (spades/hearts etc.) but I reckon this is quite a cool coincidence hehe

    Daestwen says it’s ok to request a card-swap later on so we can always change later if need be, although I’ld say it’ld be better to make up our minds early and give us time to think about this. So I’ld go ahead and reserve one of the major cards ASAP guys

    Like I said I’ve already asked for Judgment and Death, so does anyone want to tackle either of these ? I might like to toy around with the Devil or the Hanged-man as well, and I also thought I might like to interpret the Tower as a character Tommoy, so I’ld be happy if you end up choosing to do one of those two last ones hehe

    What do you reckon : I figure it would be cool to work collectively on all the concepts, bounce ideas, correct elements in the WIPs etc. even though we’ld each paint our final versions of our 2 cards separately. Suggestions ?

    Raoul : Let's hope you're right ! It’s almost like, a case of divinaAaAation ooouu spooky haha

  6. #64
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    I’m afraid I can’t do much offa the computer I’m on for the time being. I also don’t know much about this Tarot hocus-pocus, so I figured I’ld take the time to research these cards we’ve got going so far. Figured I’ld post the info here, maybe some of this will be good for us. Of course we have to design characters, but some of the symbolism might help give us direction.

    I don’t know how spot on this stuff is, like I said I’m not much of a mysticist myself so this is all new to me. Alright, so, I copied some info on these aces of ours offa the net. Here’s the low down :

    The Minor Arcana :
    Brings us clarity and definition. These cards are the supportive role-players to the prime archetypes of the Major Arcana. The stage, setting, and supportive actors in our readings; these cards flesh out the big story of what’s going on in our interpretive experiences.
    Each suit tells a story within the elemental/psychological realm of that suit. For instance, the Minor Arcana suit of cups tell the story of its element, water which deals with the realm of emotions.

    Wands : Fire, Spirit
    Pentacles : Earth, Physical
    Swords : Air, Thought
    Cups : Water, Emotions


    Aces in the Tarot deck indicate new beginnings. They are also power cards, and rank high in the trumping factor in a reading, their power weighing in evenly with Major Arcana cards.



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    ACE OF WANDS

    Key Words:
    Passion, Direction, Ignition, Expansion, Initiation, Creativity, Energization, Resourcefulness

    The ace of wands meaning deals with high volume energies bursting forth in assertive confidence. Those who pull this card in a reading are in for an incredible adventure. This card marks the beginning of a new direction - particulary in matters of creativity.

    The ace of wands also reminds us of the creative control we have in our lives. Specifically when we look at the card, we note the hand holding the out a rod symbolizing our passion. This is indicative of our ability to take hold of our desires and allow that passion to fuel us up to reach our goals.

    When in a reversed or in a position of conflict, this card may be a message that you are letting your wants or desires control you and it's time to get a better handle on your emotions.

    The beauty of this card stands out loud and clear. It is a beacon amongst the Tarot pantheon, ever holding its light bright for all to see the way to clarity. As such, the ace of wands meaning often deals with creative insight. Many times this card shows up after the querent has gone through a period of murky waters or a time of stagnation in which he/she seemed to be "stuck." Hence the symbolism of the flame thrust out of the thick, obscuring clouds. A promise of motion, direction, and positive energy building to a delightful result.

    This card is calls loudest to artists, visionaries, entrepreneurs, and those seeking to set out on a new creative path. To them, it is the "green light" card - a sign of positive encouragement, a signal to go for gusto! in their endeavors.


    Key symbols to the ace of wands meanings:

    Clouds: Symbol meaning of clouds deal with ambiguity, mystery, and things hidden. Most renditions of this card depict a hand holding a flaming torch thrust out suddenly from the clouds. This is symbolic of our ideas or energy coming out of the hidden places of our psyche and into the light of day. Clouds often deal with hidden agendas that might be keeping us in a holding pattern. They may also indicate underlying beliefs that hold us back from our being our brightest selves.

    Rivers: River symbol meanings deal with motion, direction, and the flow of our thoughts as well as our lives. When the river in the ace of wands flows into our psychic vision it is a message that we must consider the direction we are taking in our lives.

    Mountains: Symbol meanings of mountains deal with challenges, acquisition, accomplishment and aspirations. Mountains are a symbolic allegory for us in that as we climb them, each step brings us closer to our highest point. This highest point, the top of the mountain, can be a spiritual goal, physical goal, or anything else that we aspire to reach. The mountain is unbending, and inflexible. This makes it a reminder that only we can change how we deal with challenges (because the mountain certainly isn't going to change for us). This being the case, we can embrace the lessons we gain as we take on the challenge of the mountain. We can also rest assured that the peak will always be there as we aspire ever higher to our desired results.

    The ace of wands meaning is all about taking our internal creative fire in hand and holding it out far all the world to see. Now is our time to spread our warmth, passion, and vision to others. Now is our time to shine as beacons unto the world.



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    ACE OF PENTACLES

    Key Words :
    Reward, Safety, Grounded, Fresh Start, Improved Status, New Responsibility


    The ace of pentacles meaning pertains to new buds of opportunities awaiting you in areas of money, health, career, material gain, and other areas of practical matters. In matters of love and relationships, the ace of pentacles meaning indicates stability, increased trust, and new/stronger bonds made in an existing relationship.

    Key symbols pertaining to the ace of pentacles meaning:

    Hand: We see this symbol in all the aces, and in each one the hand represent a slightly different meaning. In the case of pentacles, the hand is symbolic of generosity. It is a reminder that in order to get what we want (in this case: health, material gain) we must also give. To only receive without giving is a violation of natural law, and may be our demise.


    Rose: In the Morgan-Greer rendition the rose is stands out and is an integral aspect of the ace of pentacles meaning. A long-standing symbol of purity, promise, and beauty. The rose symbol meanings deal with the promise of new beginnings and hope. We must also take the thorns into consideration - with the promise of new hope, we may have to endure a few stinging thorns (painful ordeals) along the way.


    Clouds: In relation to the ace of pentacles meaning, clouds are symbolic of allowing material gain and positive health into our lives after enduring a time of uncertainty. Clouds in this card are also symbolic of gifts bestowed upon us from seemingly out of nowhere. This is a reminder that we should rejoice in not only what we have, but what is right around the corner too.

    Granted, the ace of pentacles meaning is about gaining the physical means in our lives we desire, and as such it is a very promising card in our spreads. The ace of pentacles meaning reminds us that we are human, and sometimes it takes work to get what we want. This card also reminds us that we must be flexible and keep ourselves in a positive state of allowing in order to receive the material gifts available to us.

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    ACE OF SWORDS :

    Key Words :
    Focus, Force, Clarity, Vision, Insight, Intensity

    The ace of swords card meaning has to do with aligning yourself. Visually, this card is clearly making a statement of solidarity. When we see the strength of that sword standing erect in the center of this card, there is no doubt in our mind that we must focus upon the issues at hand (indicated by surrounding cards) and make our stand.

    Often the ace of swords Tarot card meaning deals with gaining clarity in our lives after a long bout of disillusionment. Often this card appears in matters of love when the ties need to be cut in a relationship. This is particularly the case in one-sided relationships where the partner requires more of attention than you.

    This confirms the ace of swords meaning as this card signals its beaming light to you. This card cries out "this is your time, the focus is on you!" But what kind of focus?

    The suite of swords in a Tarot deck deals with thoughts, and awareness. They've also been identified as symbols of challenges or conflict in our lives. The ace of swords Tarot card meaning is symbolic of uncovering a new way of thinking. Or, cutting away at some old thought to make way for a brighter perspective.

    More specifically, the ace of swords is a call to stop fooling ourselves and look into the crux of the matters of our soul. The ace of swords is bright and brassy. There is no room for excuses with this card, and it demands full honesty of the querent in a reading. This means that new projects, ideas, thoughts, or relationships are on the horizon. Due to the sharp nature of this card, you had better be mindful and clear about your intentions first before starting these new ventures.



    Key symbols pertaining to the ace of swords meanings:

    Crown: Yes, we might initially think of royalty or nobility when considering the symbolic meaning of crowns. But consider where the crown rests, on one's head of course. Consequently, the crown in the ace of swords is a symbol of thought. Specifically, the clarity and force behind our thoughts. Use this visual image to slice through all the distracting thoughts you may have about an issue and point your mind squarely to the core of the matter. This kind of keen focus will see your way to success.

    Rose: The Morgan-Greer shows a red and white rose in the ace of swords card. These roses are symbolic of choices that we make. We can either chose to see our lot in life as a work of beauty, or we can focus on the thorns and pain. The rose on this card also symbolizes the delicate process of our thought. Meaning, just as a gardener tenderly cards of a rose to assure continually beautiful blossoms, so too must we take responsibility to nurture our thoughts to insure positive outcomes.

    Clouds: Cloud symbol meanings in this card indicate confusion and distraction. We notice the image of the sword victoriously rising above the cloying clouds in seek of the highest point of inspiration. This is a visual message to us that we must rise above the chatter (nay sayers, conflict, media, negativity) and aspire to our own greatest thoughts in order to make our way to mental clarity and success.


    Just from these few and simple symbols we can see a pattern of understanding: When we work towards clarity of thoughts, and choose the proper thoughts for our purpose, we reach the epitome of our goals, obtaining our crowning achievements.



    ----------

    ACE OF CUPS

    Key Words:
    Love, Peace, Patience, Harmony, Assurance, Tranquility, Compassion, Acceptance

    Visually, this card is undeniably potent. I particularly gravitate to the Thoth rendition of this card because it shows prominent emanations of energy spanning out in a web of connectivity. This card illustration reminds me of the power that love has over all things.
    Yes, if you are wanting hard and fast ace of cups meanings, most certainly it is a card symbolizing love as well as a signal of new relationships beginning (aces signifying new beginnings), but it's much more than that.

    This card is a sign of blessing. A blessing that assures us if we hold ourselves (our thoughts, feelings, body, etc) in a place of love there is no end to the beauty we may allow to flow into our lives.

    The ace of cups is a message for us to start at the place of love. Whatever our intent, need, desire, direction may be; if we initiate your action from the starting point of love and compassion then our result will be blessed.


    Key symbols to the ace of cups meanings:

    Dove: The dove is a common spiritual icon with symbol meanings indicating hope, purity, aspiration, and ascension. In Greco-Roman mythology, the dove is a sacred creature to Aphrodite/Venus, and therefore is a powerful symbol of love. Featured on the ace of cups, it is a promising symbol. Note the dove (in the Rider-Waite version) is pointing down. This is a second-pass message indicating: "whatever goes up, must come down." In other words, fly high, but ground yourself first


    Water: Water is a symbol of emotion and subconscious. Water also symbolizes purity, cleansing, and rebirth. It is associated with the moon too which causes its symbolism to lean towards femininity. This is in line with the core ace of cups meanings that deal with love and compassion. Although males are surely just as capable of love as women are - human history primarily hands over the softer, nurturing, compassionate concepts of love to women. There is further connection here because many First People (ancient cultures, primitive man) believe the earth was formed from a watery womb. Here we are seeing water as a symbol of love rebirth and all the other associations that go along with these.


    Lotus:Traditionally, the symbolic meaning of lotus deals with ascension. When we see the lotus unfolding its petals beautifully in the midst of inky, murky soils we can liken ourselves unfolding as divine beings emerging out of unclear situations or states of consciousness. Simply put, the lotus in the ace of cups Tarot card tells us there is beauty in all things as long as we have the inner eyes to select only the beauty among us.


    These are powerful symbols, and this is an incredibly potent card. In a reading this card indicates new sparks of passion are being lit up in your life. It also tells the querent to start all endeavors from a place of love, and the results will always be blessed.
    We can also see this card as a sign of renewal, rebirth, or starting over.

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  8. #65
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    Nice post Nic! I appreciate the research into the cards.

    So I'm stuck awake with so many thoughts bouncing around my brain. Sensory overload, in a good way, trying to wrap my head around the topic.

    I think we are pretty much in agreement that we are all doing the aces for our minor arcana. So thinking about what the ace represents. The Trump card, a card which overpowers all the other minor arcana. In terms of characters, if the king, queen, page, are going to be depicted by human figures, it would seem that the Ace would have to have divine qualities. A figure that is above human status. A god, if you will. Remember Daestwan wants us to stick pretty close to the Rider-Waite interpretation, so be sure to check out the image that is associated with your card in that deck, and check out the symbols/meanings etc. All I'm really saying is that if our cards were laid next to the other minor arcana (king, seven, princess, etc.) without knowing our card we have to strive to make the viewer instantly recognize the power (not necessarily strength, maybe emotional, intellectual or scale) of our character, and realize all other characters within that suit are subservient. I think that's the mindset we should go into designing our "Aces"

    Oooh this is going to be fun!

  9. #66
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    I know nothing about Tarot cards so your post helps a lot Nic. I'm going to take the Tower, besides Death and Judgement we already have. Maybe Tim or Björn have favourites, well there's one open spot. In the end we can decide how we divide things but Nic's suggestion on one major and one minor card each sounds good to me.

    We could start thinking about theme's, styles, we are going for. Like a steampunk/hollywood combo, deathmetal/lolita/robot/alien combo or something like that, so we can start looking for inspirational and reference material.

  10. #67
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    Here's a nice set of different card decks.

  11. #68
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    Tim : quite right. Maybe not a "god" in every instance though, but an "extreme" surely. Maybe a “hero” in certain cases, the epitome of a given quality type of thing. I’m not opposed to the idea of supernatural either here I’m just thinking maybe if we go with something sci-fi then a “god” might not fit in as well with the theme. Then again that might be our angle: “divine sci-fi”. That might be fun.

    But regardless: I agree with Tim on the super-human quality of our cards. This should be fun actually

    Tom : Glad to see you chose Tower. Like I said, I was thinking it would be fun to transform that into a character, see how that works out so it’ll be good to have this card in the team.

    As far as Death and Judgment go, again I don’t mind doing either, and Daestwen says we can change our minds about our chosen cards as long as the slot is still available. So if no one here wants to do “Death” for instance, then we can swap it to some other team I’m sure : it’s the one that filled out the first.

    And yes, I think this is the time we should use to give direction to our cards, that is to say chose a general theme, a universe for them. I’ld have liked to take the time we have before the drawing phase starts to put together some reference sheets like Tom did for the “surveyor” ChoW, but I just can’t do that until I get home in a few days so… I can only suggest things until then.

    Tom, I was wondering what you meant by steampunk/hollywood ? I’m not a big fan of steampunk myself, but I’m flexible Now I’m not quite sure what you have in mind with Deathmetal/Lolita/Robot/Alien either there Tom, but that sounds more down my alley hahah

    I’ll try and put up some sort of inspirational references when I get home so we can all agree on a general feel for our cards (textures/brush technique/colours, creatures, armour ? hell I don’t know, anything that screams out “vibe” to me). Visuals should help us find a direction I think. Hmmm, alright I’ll come back with some ideas later !

  12. #69
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    Nic, I was just throwing in some random words that popped up. Nothing serious yet.
    But it's important we choose our theme's wisely. All four of us have to feel comfortably with them so I suggest everyone of us give a few theme's we personally like and then lets see if there could be an interesting combination made. Here are a few theme's to start with:
    Underwater/deep sea
    Dinosaur age/Dragon world
    Horror toys/Puppets
    Pin ups with a twist
    Post war/brutally injured/apocalypse
    Results of Frankenstein/biological experiments
    WW II/French revolution
    New star wars characters
    Every char has a way of flying/floating/hoovering
    The gates of hell open, our chars come out.
    Ice world/Vikings

  13. #70
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    I like the idea! Other then that I kinda like "The Chariot"
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  14. #71
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    Hey there B-man, I snagged the chariot for you. So we have our 4 major arcana cards:

    The Tower, Judgment, Death, The Chariot.

    So lets divvy those up, Tommoy, likes the Tower, B-man the Chariot, Nic can pick which one he likes, Death or Judgment, I'll take whichever, I'm not picky .

    Of course we all have our minor cards set too.

    Tommoy - Ace of Wands

    Nic - Ace of Swords

    B-man - Ace of Pentacles

    Tim - Ace of Cups


    So we have that set, Tommoy has some really good ideas for themes. I think the key to picking a good theme is not to pigeon hole our characters by getting too specific, making it difficult to design the symbols/meaning for our character to represent.

    I like:

    Vikings (semi-fantasy driven ie furs, swords, which cater to this challenge, but with a nordic twist)

    Anything Sci-Fi (Shit you can't go wrong with sci-fi. Our characters in mech suits? Exosquad anyone?)

    Superhero's/Villians (This may be cool, and easy in terms of the costumes conveying the necessary symbolism for each of our characters.)

    Underwater (It'd be tough to convey our necessary themes when everything takes place underwater, but it would give our cards a really cool and coherent visual aesthetic.)

    These are just a couple of ideas, let's keep the ball rolling and toss out a few more. Maybe talk about pros and cons?

  15. #72
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    Tim, I'm comfortable with the Tower and the Ace of Wands.

    I like underwater myself but on a second glance it would give us some hard nuts to crack when fire, lightning, cups of water! and prob some other things are involved. Of course nothing a little brainstorming couldn't fix, but with for instance Vikings we would have a solid bottom to start of from. It could be something like Vikings in a icy Dragons world.

    Sci-Fi is always fun, with superheroes we could get too pinned down.

  16. #73
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    Just got home after an 8hour+ drive today, didn't sleep much the whole time I was up in snow-land neither so I'm burnt ! Good to be home hehe

    I think Tim might be right in saying we should give ourselves a certain leeway to begin with although I think it might be interesting to mix in other elements into our theme later as we develop the "story".

    I would like to submit a few ideas of my own here but the last couple of days have been utterly draining so I haven't yet be able to put much thought into this That being said, I wanted to at least touch-base tonight and voice my interest in the ideas you'ld already put forward, see where our interests might converge.

    So : as you've pointed out Tom, I don't think going with an "environmental" theme such as underwater or space etc. would be very helpful given the importance of the elements in the Tarot visuals (fire, water, air, clouds, lightning, etc.) I rather like some of the other themes mentioned here though : Vikings is always one that talks to me so I'm cool with that. Science fiction is also a great favourite of mine so I'm cool with THAT as well. I wasn't particularly thinking of "mech" but I'm definitely ok with it if we go down that specific rout (I've never heard of Exosquad???) Maybe we could combine certain sci-fi elements into the Viking universe to help create an aesthetic diverging a little from a generic Norse look?... A "Nordic twist" Tim mentioned, that sounds right down my alley hehe Gives us direction without confining us to much.

    I'm a bit of a History buff, and the World Wars are of particular interest so Tom's suggestion of a WWII oriented theme suits me as well. I somehow feel that it might be harder to design new costumes in this era and keep in line with the spirit of ChoW though, but I'm comfortable with this theme, if for no other reason than the opportunity to draw some of them guns

    Not so hot on the superhero idea though. For one I've never really gotten onboard with the superhero thing. I mean, I like Lobo or even Hellboy sometimes, maybe even Ghost Rider (hey, I like skulls ) etc., but I guess guys wearing tights just isn't generally my thing. Even though I really dig comic books, it's just not the super-hero vibe that gets to me. I'm also not convinced this would translate particularly well into Tarot Cards visuals ? Maybe comic books à la Sin City or Heavy Metal would work quite well though, visuals like some of the Humanoids Associés comics with Juan Gimenez's work or Dark Horse's Hardboiled or some gritty stuff like that of George Pratt, Ashley Wood (Popbot, Zombies vs Amazons vs Robots etc.), Kent Williams (Blood) for instance.

    Star Wars (the ORIGINAL Star Wars - are there any others ?) were probably the biggest influence on me growin' up, but I don't feel that would be a wise avenue to chose for designing Tarot Cards.

    Tim : I was rather set on drawing Judgment "the firey angel" at first, but then I read up a little more on the Tarot Cards and "Death in Black Armour" with the white rose seems pretty damn sweet as well so. I really don't know. Do you fancy one in particular ?

  17. #74
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    I kinda like the viking ide, makes it easy to add alot of drama in the peice. I could go WWII as sugested by Tom and it would work fine for me. I would like to se that we didn't go sci-fi or superhero thogh. Its just something that rubs me the wrong way with those topics.
    I know what I want to do with the ace of pentacles. and the chariot is a cool topic.
    I think ones we start doing wips we all will kinda fall into sync and find a common look.
    Edit: There is actually a Nordic Tarot deck called "Vikings Tarot"
    Last edited by B-Man; December 29th, 2009 at 08:04 AM.
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  18. #75
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    Now we're getting somewhere!

    Nic if you don't mind I'll take Death, it would actually lend itself pretty well as a good juxtapose to my idea for the Ace of Cups.

    So it sounds like after reading everyones responses the Viking and WWII ideas are what we like the best? I agree with you guys that these two are the most interesting. My idea is pretty solid and it actually could be applied to either theme and workout well.

    I like the Vikings/Norse theme a little better. If you guys wanted to incorporate more "fantasy" elements ie dragons, beasts, etc that would be cool too!

    If we went the WWII route it could work too, just more as a backdrop and less involved in the actual development of the character. I see Nic's point in regards to the wardrobe, it would make things challenging. However it is different, could be fun.

    So yea, my 2 cents.

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