Better way to blend this?
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    Better way to blend this?

    Well, I tend to work on 5 different things at once. I haven't forgotten about my other ones. I will update those later. But, here is a new piece I'm working on. The shading of her left eye (our right) is lame. Not sure if there is a better way to blend that it, but i dont like the fact that it looks like she got punched in the face, lol. Any pro tips for shading the eye? Any other crits are welcome of course.
    Thanks.

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    Last edited by Havok Reed; December 11th, 2009 at 12:38 AM.
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    not really, i google stuff and go off of things I see, but this is probobly 95% from my head here. yea it does seem a bit long, you should have seen it before

    I can shorten the chin and forehead. Could someone point out the shading flaws? The light is coming from that one side. The only thing i see that could be adjusted is the light on the right, on her cheek. I know light does hit that spot passed the nose, onto the cheek.

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    Ok, the long face was due to the chin. So i shortened that. Looks better to me, but i'd like another opinion.

    Also i made the light on HER left cheek not so big.

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    That's better, and the shading seems improved. What you should do now is draw the basic skull on a separate layer and the angle/direction of light source (I have a thread on here that demonstrates that. Then use what you know about cast shadows and the way basic 3D shapes are shaded to render the skull. Then it's a simple copy onto the face!

    Hope that helps more ^_^

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    Your problem isn't blending, it's that you don't understand the structure of the eye.
    Edit: Sorry, deja vu. Also,
    Quote Originally Posted by Nezumi Works View Post
    Remember structure. The eyeball itself is a three-dimensional form set in a socket, with skin and muscle surrounding and covering it. Get a good idea of the internal anatomy and that will inform how you do your shading and linework. Hamm is a good choice, as is Loomis. Also do studies from anatomy books to give yourself an idea of the underlying structure.


    Last edited by Elwell; December 9th, 2009 at 03:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Your problem isn't blending, it's that you don't understand the structure of the eye.
    ^ This

    The reason the shading is off is because the structure is off... It's difficult for us to give advice on what's wrong with the shading because what's underneath it is difficult to understand, identify or mentally place in a 3D space...

    Your absolute best bet for getting correct shading is to learn how to draw the structure. It's a form follows function thing. Shadows fall across a form the way they do because of how they're shaped.

    Here's my advice on how to get the shading right:
    Go to a Halloween shop, but a skull.
    Go to Wal Mart, buy a cheap lamp and a light bulb.
    Clear some desk space, light the skull.
    Study how the shadows play across the surfaces.

    Or

    Buy a mirror and light your own face.
    Study how the shadows play across the surfaces of your head.

    Photographic references are great, but nothing beats drawing from life.

    Last edited by alexboyer; December 9th, 2009 at 03:35 PM.
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    I too will expand upon what other people here have said in terms of the shape of the head. I understand you're primarily looking for help with the shading, but the shape has to be right in order for the shading to be correct. Proper shading is completely reliant on the 3-dimensional surface for it to be on.

    The skull, if separated into simple shapes, is an oblong spherical shape for the cranium (when viewed from the side or 3/4 view as seen here) and then the jaw completes the shape beneath. The neck does not attach flush with the back of the cranium, so the skull actually 'pokes out' a bit - feel the back of your own head and you'll see what I mean. Although her neck is hidden by her hair, it feels to me like the neck is too flush with the back of the skull, and that's part of what's causing everything to look elongated.

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    just to reinforce some of the points already made above. I'm no expect so please correct me if I'm wrong.

    understanding the structure will show that the cranium (the part of the skull that encloses the brain) is more like a sphere/egg. Not as smooth but the basic shape is similar. You've shaded it as if there was a concave shape there, on her forehead. I don't know if its the best method, but it helps to conceive things as basic shapes. That way, it'll help you think about the way light affect such shapes. Study some geometric shapes too and how light affects the shadow to have a better understanding. Cones, Spheres, Cubes, Cylinders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Edit: Sorry, deja vu. Also,
    Yea, but that was more about the hair than anything. I haven't touched that piece in a long time.

    Here's my advice on how to get the shading right:
    Go to a Halloween shop, but a skull.
    Go to Wal Mart, buy a cheap lamp and a light bulb.
    Clear some desk space, light the skull.
    Study how the shadows play across the surfaces.

    Or

    Buy a mirror and light your own face.
    Study how the shadows play across the surfaces of your head.

    Photographic references are great, but nothing beats drawing from life.
    Ill have to go with the latter. Im a bit poor atm xD

    Thanks to the other suggestions as well.

    I have the Loomis books and all the other ones that are normally suggested. Even though I follow the steps on how to draw the eye. I just cant seem to get it straight
    Does anyone else have their own kind of process of doing things that they wouldn't mind sharing?

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    ohh, this has helped me draw eyes havok,

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/9561347/Bu...omy-in-English


    theres pages in there about the eye and if i do say so myself, its very helpful! just keep practicing untill you get it right, also no one started out as a perfect drawer.

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    There's some very good information on drawing the eye here. They've got sections on other facial features which are good as well. You'd do well to go through the whole thing, given that you seem to have multiple issues with head construction. It's complex, so that's hardly something unusual.

    For instance, the lips aren't really structured, the eyes don't quite line up, and the nose is off centre in perspective. The far cheekbone is quite far forward, and the features don't really relate to each other (the nose relates to the mouth and eyebrow, creating the ridge of the depression the eye sits in, the cheekbone frames it from underneath and relates to the mouth, the mouth relates to the chin and the depression between the two, etc.). Simply put, you need to do a lot more structural studies and life drawing to really get a good feel for the construction of the head. Loomis, as always, is good for this, and there are numerous tutorials 'round the net, such as this one.

    Good luck to you!

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    Zokay, I found a skull online and used it as a reference to do a sketch over. Doing this showed me many things wrong with my drawing. does anyone see any errors in this sketch over? I included my reference.

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    Looks good! Now when you're laying over the skin and such, bear in mind the basics - Eyes halfway down and an eyewidth apart, top of the ears just below the eye level, earlobes about in line with the lip parting...That sorta stuff. Then you'll be laughing! ^_^

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    Biggest issue is the skull is compressed horizontally. Give her more room in back. One quick way to think of the skull is to see one oval shape laid on its side for the cranium, and another one vertical for the face. Like so:

    Name:  skull.jpg
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    As to minor tweaks, bring the closer cheekbone down a bit, it should be level (in perspective) with the bone on the other side. Chin could be flattened and raised a little, it seems a little on the long side. The mandible looks nice, just remember that it's sort of like a flattened cylinder, so the close side curves. Nasal cavity should be a little bigger and wider, basically think a hole in the skull with a ridge on top, so it's vertical while the face slopes away a little, into the eye socket. Eye sockets and jaw overall look pretty good, maybe extend them inward a little more. My old life drawing instructor used to tell us to think of them as "cop shades", which pretty much nails the shape. More or less flat on top, angled on the sides, then a curve along the bottom and back up.

    You're definitely on the right track. Now work those observation muscles and start looking at how your sketch diverges from the reference, and make changes as appropriate.

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    Fox - thanks

    Nezumi - 10-4, those would be Aviators, lol. Never even thought of that, it's good to know for the future.

    Ok, so after an hour or so, and re-tweeking some things, here's what I got.

    -redid the facial structure
    -redid the eyes (hope they look better, found a good perspective description in one of my loomis books)
    -new hair!
    -better eyebrows.

    anything else wrong im not seeing here? most likely.

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    There's definite progress happening here. There are a few issues, but the image is stronger than it was. Now to keep pushing it and making it much stronger still.

    First thing that grabs me is her mouth. It's like her teeth are extending past her lips to grip the pencil, which is impossible. The lips have thickness, and are quite fleshy. The teeth are behind that, and have thickness of their own. Grip a pencil the same way your character is, and feel how your own lips go naturally. Look at it in the mirror as well, but actually touch the pencil, your lips and the corner of your mouth. That's your guide. The lower lip actually seems off, both in shape and location, so a little attention there would strengthen the image.

    You might want to smooth out that bump midway down her nose, right now it looks like it's been broken at some point. Noses are difficult, especially when describing with line, due to their subtlety. But they are worth the work it takes to get them right. Take a look at some reference, such as this piece. Note the structure of the nose and mouth, and how the upper part of the nose blends into the eyebrow ridge.

    The eyes...are better. They're not there yet, but they're better. One thing to remember about the eyeball is that it's round. Yeah, that sounds obvious, but it's important. The opening of the eye is not round, and extends past the actual eyeball. So there's a bit at either end of the eye that are not eyeball any more. You need to indicate that. You sort of have there, but you need to go a little further with it. They seem to be lined up okay, but a little far apart I think. You also probably don't want that much of a gap on the left side between the upper and lower lids. it makes the eye look a little bulgey.

    Finally, your eyebrows (well, hers) aren't lined up with each other. This is a good time to mention guidelines and midlines. On a separate layer, you should be blocking everything out as you go in simple forms. Spheres, cylinders, etc. And you should be putting midlines on those to make the orientation clear, and to reinforce that these are three dimensional shapes you're drawing. That helps a lot when you're coming to things like centering the nose, or lining the mouth up in perspective. And what you should be doing is drawing ellipses around the shapes to guide where your major features go. Again, doing this helps a lot in figuring out where the ends of the eyebrows fit on the face, and how tall they are when the head is turned like it is here. It's a fairly easy fix, and a very good habit to get into. Take a look at that link to I Draw Girls.com again, and pay attention to the guidelines he lays down at the beginning of the process. They don't have to be pretty, you'll be the only one who sees them in the end. They just have to be useful.

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    Ok, thanks again nezumi. I fixed up the teeth thing, I think it looks more convincing, no? yay for liquify, used it on the eye to shorten that gap you were talking about, brought the eyes in a wee bit closer, and attempted the eye brows. Oh yea and the nose.

    Also, I was working on some shading...my next hurdle, im kind of using a reference here

    Here's where I'm at so far.

    [EDIT]
    Its not posted, because I noticed it after the fact, but I indented underneath the lower lip some more.

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    Last edited by Havok Reed; December 10th, 2009 at 04:09 PM.
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    Update:

    I decided to add some more to it. There are a few things I'm not too sure on, and its getting late for me to do any checking with references, i have class in the morning. Just let me know what kind of things you see wrong with it or maybe to change the pose or something? Though, I am still focusing more on the head, so I still need feedback on that, but it felt lonely without a body .

    Thanks guys. Hope its not super huge, I work with a massive resolution and canvas size.

    {edit}

    Yes, I will re adjust the position of the head and neck so it doesnt look like her neck is broken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok Reed View Post
    Yea, but that was more about the hair than anything. I haven't touched that piece in a long time.
    You missed the point of what Elwell was really trying to point out. Your hair problem in the other post wasn't actually a hair problem it was a painting and structure problem. Just like here the shading isn't really your problem. It's just a symptom of your structure problem. You need to fix the underlying issues in structure to fix the symptom.

    Think about it this way; you have been having headaches and nose bleeds. Horrible splitting headaches. You go to the doctor to get your headaches fixed. That's your problem right? Well no. He looks at you and you have a brain tumor that needs to come out. He won't hand you Advil and treat your headache. He'll recommend surgery for the grapefruit sized tumor in your noggin.

    In addition to the anatomy sources and tutorials people recommended I think getting some direct reference for this pose would help you greatly. You're working against yourself by trying to pull from multiple poses to create just one pose (at least at this point in your understanding of the human form).

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    I have to agree with what the last poster said. Don't do any shading until the structure is accurate. Think of it this way, you wouldn't paint a house if it was only half way built. If something looks off, it probably is, fix all, emphasis on ALL the anatomy issues before shading or detailing. This is a good habbit to get into.

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    Just so you guys know, the body was added after I attempted some shading work, I don't plan to do any more shading because I am fully aware of the problems. The shading is what I will do after I am done with the line art, it was more or less for fun.

    I understand what you guys are saying but that's not really the kind of feed back I'm looking for. Yes, I know I need more practice, but this isn't going to be a perfect thing here. I'm just working to improve, so not every thing I do is going to be 100%. I don't have years of experience like you guys do. Sure I have tons of these art books, but I can only go so far with them. Please understand that I'm simply looking for guidance from the experts, like your selves, to point me in the right direction. Remember, everyone started out how I am right now. I'm learning, literally, every day here and I totally appreciate all the constructive criticism. It takes a lot for me to post my work on here, in front of all these amazing artists to cut it down and tell me this and that is wrong. (Please dont take this as me being mad or anything, just saying where I'm coming from)

    That being said, I'm going to redo the body. For some reason I can't do anything worth a crap when it's late at night and I'm tired. So looking at this right now, its garbage to me. The head thing will come in due time, I just wanted more of the body there. I'm going to change the pose all together.

    The shading thing is just a layer mask on another layer, so no worries there, it was just for fun.

    Last edited by Havok Reed; December 11th, 2009 at 09:37 AM.
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    Something that might help you here is the idea of workflow. It's essentially what you're being told already, but it's nice to see it in one place. Typically, it goes from most basic and general to most specific.

    So you start with an idea. You rough it out, and by rough I mean rough! Seriously, you can make it so messy that nobody but you knows what the hell is on the page, but you know what goes where. Try a few approaches. Then take what you like best and start blocking it out. You've seen it around here, skeletal forms, mannikin structures, basic shapes. Balls and sticks, lines and dots, cubes and spheres. That's your structure, and you tinker with that until it looks right.

    You don't start actually drawing a recognizable person until you're done with all that. Someone told me once that "drawing is planning", and they're right. If you figure out all your basics before getting to anything resembling detail (like facial features, clothing, hair and so on), then your later steps will be dramatically easier and better looking.

    So that's workflow in a nutshell.

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    Thanks Nezumi.

    I do believe that is a problem with this piece. Usually, I do the whole mannikin thing first, but I ignored that trying to skip around it and I shouldn't have. It also didnt help that I decided to add a body after I drew the head. I'm in class at the moment, but when I get back, I'm trashing the body and redoing it to match the head.

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    update:

    So I think this pose works a little better.

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    That's definitely more comfortable looking. I wonder if you might throw in a line of action, try to get some good arcs out of the pose, make it nicely dynamic. You can certainly get one out of each arm, maybe a nice "S" curve in the body.

    Speaking of the body, I think you've made the upper body a bit long. I'd expect the pelvis to be more or less where that abdominal sphere is. The closer arm also seems a wee bit on the short side, maybe leave the hand where it is and put more bend into the arm to make up the difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok Reed View Post
    Remember, everyone started out how I am right now. I'm learning, literally, every day here and I totally appreciate all the constructive criticism. It takes a lot for me to post my work on here, in front of all these amazing artists to cut it down and tell me this and that is wrong. (Please dont take this as me being mad or anything, just saying where I'm coming from)
    Totally, man. I wasn't trying to rip you down. If I bother to leave a critique it means I care and I'm trying to help. Same goes for everyone who left you a comment. Leaving a crit to rip someone down is a waste of time (and mean quite frankly). You won't find any of that here. Some people are more blunt and no nonsense about their advise than others but all are genuine in their desire to help you get better. And yes we all started where out where you are, some of us rather recently. There's nothing to be bashful about when posting your art. Heck I drew THIS three years ago...it's supposed to be a person. haha Advice here and practice and figure drawing classes helped me get better. ^_^

    So here's my general advice. The stuff I wish someone had straight up told me when I started three years ago.
    1. Use reference. It is not cheating and it is the only way you will know what things really look like. Your digital camera and yourself and your surroundings are great for creating reference pics.

    2. Try to find a figure drawing class you can sign up for. I found my first at a community college.

    3. Grab an anatomy book and draw what you see in it. Over and over and over.

    Good luck. If you keep at it, don't get discouraged and take the advice you get around here you'll be surprised how fast you can get better.

    "This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy." -Douglas Adams

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    Nezumi - Yes I do also agree it could use a bit more action, so to speak. I'll play around with it some more, but not until the morning, lol. We've seen how I draw when I'm tired. Had a long day with a long road trip to go with it. Thanks again, you have been tremendously helpful throughout the process of this whole thing. I hope you continue to offer your suggestions

    Orangehat - Thanks for the support. I really am trying my best and I definitely use the great advise that everyone is giving me. I actually am taking classes next semester so I will be busy throwing in more stuff for people to take a look at to see how I progress. I do plan on starting portrait sketches. I will start out with my favorite actors and musicians, for they are very inspirational to me.

    Ok, so I will post an update in the morning(ish). thanks guys

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    lets try this one. I think this makes more sense. I also lowered the legs to match the length of her arms, otherwise her hands would be at her knees.

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    Last edited by Havok Reed; December 12th, 2009 at 07:54 PM.
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    Update: Urgent, please help with a sketch over!

    I have been messing with this for a long time now. The clothing past the breasts does not look right no matter how many times i do it! This is driving me crazy. Is it me or am I doing this wrong? I'm close to completing the line art on here.

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