Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    412
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts

    THE DIGITAL DILEMMA: Does MY PAINTING REALLY EXITS

    You mean this isn't real? A question I'm asked some times about some of my more successful digital paintings (not often). Although flattering at first it also raises the question that if its not real then what is it. If its not real then it most be fake. If its not real then what realm of reality does it exist in. And if its not real than does it even exist at all. It belongs to a world of 0's and 1's. Forever their and not their at the same time. It can't be fake its real I can see it. Its on my screen. Its in my computer. Its right there. But instantly I realize there's nothing on my screen. Nothing on it or in it. My painting only exist in this fragile universe constructed of lines of code and data. There is nothing tangible, nothing physical. The air isn't filled with the sweet stink of oils. My hands and my clothes are clean. My brushes clean, palette clean, but why do I feel so dirty. My art has become disconnect, disjointed, and discredited. Does it deserve this disservice or is it truly the development of a new dynasty, a new era, a new movement. In 100 years what will they call us? What will they call it? It that can not be touched unless it is printed. It that can not be seen out side of this box, this machine, this computer. Like myself...how do you know if I really exist? With these words I have become my digital art. Trapped behind a veil of science and technology. Trapped in this box, this machine, this computer. My voice multiplied exponentially by the minds and interpretation of all the people readings this now. Including you...just how I wonder what my voice sounds like in your head I wonder how it got there. Just like you see these words and my voice exist in your head. You see the painting and the image exist in your head, your heart, your dreams, and your desires. You see? Its not real. Its more than real. I don't need to touch, taste, or smell something for it to be real. I feel it. In my heart and my imagination. It is the direct link to myself as an artist and as a human being. Because it does not exit out side of this world and it still evokes such strong reactions in us all is proof enough. Its self validating. In our minds but not in our hands. Fragile indeed, but no longer a digital dilemma, at least not to me.


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Powell River, B.C.
    Posts
    648
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 8 Times in 3 Posts
    Hear! Hear! (clap..Clap) That sums it up for me. Good one.
    Art gives me a life of extreme challenge, frustration, accomplishment and contentment. Nothing less will do!

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Bulgaria
    Posts
    1,823
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 30 Times in 18 Posts
    **PRINT A HARD COPY**












    dilemma solved

    Es fließt durch meine Venen, Es schläft in meinen Tränen
    Es läuft mir aus den Ohren, Herz und Nieren sind Motoren


  5. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Bulgaria
    Posts
    1,823
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 30 Times in 18 Posts
    BTW, it is awfuly naive to think that something doesn't exist if you can't touch it. Ideas exist, so does thought, emotion, and all other constructs of the mind. They are real because we recognize them as such.

    Also, the thing with it being an unreal world of 0s and 1s that is there and not there carries over to us. Funny thing is we are made of atoms, and you can never tell how fast an electron is going if you know where it is, and vice versa. the Atom turns out to be a rather ethereal thing, but its still there, and its still real.

    Es fließt durch meine Venen, Es schläft in meinen Tränen
    Es läuft mir aus den Ohren, Herz und Nieren sind Motoren


  6. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Seattle, Washington
    Posts
    614
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    This is nothing new. Audio recordings are the same, so are performances in a way.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    986
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Is the montior there, are the colors there, is there a picture there, is it a painting? Yes. The end.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Kitimat, BC, Canada
    Posts
    899
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
    sure, it exists, but is it collectible?

    music doesn't exactly exist as something you can hold, but you can still collect it.
    I don't think digital art is the same because when it's not on the monitor it's not there.....it doesn't occupy any of our attention.

    traditional art and music have more of a place in our awareness....they're part of our peripheral vision...I might not be looking at the art directly, but it's hanging on my wall.....I might not have put on the cd, but it's playing at the grocery store....even if I'm not paying attention, it digs into my subconscious awareness.

    I suppose that it could be remedied with the invention of digital picture frames.....but even so, there wouldn't be so much longevity......you remodel the room and the art doesn't match the scheme anymore.....easy as 1, 2, 3 and you have a new piece on display....

    The art is certainly legitimate work.....but it only exists as long as it can keep someone's attention.

    -Rob

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    2,026
    Thanks
    439
    Thanked 708 Times in 294 Posts
    Digital = Arranged Pixels (coding) ... Oils = Arranged Moleculs....

    The questions is: When we have fully developed nano-technology and can replicate the Mona Lisa atom for atom (as if it were code) , then what is real?

    :hmm:

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Bulgaria
    Posts
    1,823
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 30 Times in 18 Posts
    sure, it exists, but is it collectible?
    I solved that with my first post.

    **PRINT A HARD COPY**

    Es fließt durch meine Venen, Es schläft in meinen Tränen
    Es läuft mir aus den Ohren, Herz und Nieren sind Motoren


  11. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    435
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    beautiful prose. very philphiisophical.

    yeah, print a hard copy. f both the painting and your post.
    i am removed

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Kitimat, BC, Canada
    Posts
    899
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
    I solved that with my first post.

    **PRINT A HARD COPY**
    that kinda works.....but it's more collectible like a comic book.....a reproduction isn't as valueable.

    Sammy's post makes me wonder though, if we could develop a technology for printing that could replicate the strokes and effects with traditional materials.......that'd be awesome....a greater sense of permanence for the artwork.

    -Rob

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Bulgaria
    Posts
    1,823
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 30 Times in 18 Posts
    Well, its obvious that you can't collect digital art like you can collect real paintings. Anything that can be copied perfectly with a right-click-copy-and-paste action that takes seconds is not going to have the same value as a one of a kind oil painting. But you can still collect it and its still real.

    Sammy brought this issue up with his molecular duplication thing.

    In the end the collection thing is all about availability. If you could make it so that only one person could see your work, then you would have the same value as a traditional painting. Not likely though.

    Es fließt durch meine Venen, Es schläft in meinen Tränen
    Es läuft mir aus den Ohren, Herz und Nieren sind Motoren


  14. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    412
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts

    THE ANSWER

    It is not the answer but the problem that drives us. It is the journey, the quest, and the question that compels us. Can you see it... of course you can't there is no dilemma at least not to me, but I've said that already. This has become more about fears. My fears as an artist my search for truth, but then I realize the more I look for truth out side of myself the further it gets. Yes my painting exist but not because someone told me it does. It exist because I will it to be. It is that "be" our recognition of itself that gives it its existence, or am I just perpetuating a falsehood, an illusion, a simulation that really gives it its existence. The lie only exist once we know its is a lie until then it is TRUTH. That's why there is no real distinction between Illusion and reality, true and false, real and fake. They are all subject. Subject to change and subject to our own perceptions of the world. As long as the illusion is not recognized as false, its value is exactly the same as reality. It is real. But once the illusion is recognized as such, it no longer is one. It becomes the concept of illusion itself, and that alone. Its the transformation from perceived reality or truth, to illusion or the lie, to concept. That is the real illusion. You can not escape it so why answer it? Answer what? The question. What question? That's the question...

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    HAIKU, HI
    Posts
    206
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Is anything real? Considering our brain is a computer and our perception of reality is also just 1s and 0s (+ and - neural charges).

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Posts
    3,169
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 140 Times in 70 Posts
    WAKE UP...NEO



    KNOCK, KNOCK

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts
    1,133
    Thanks
    11
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    dfacto...

    I think it's a bit naive to qualify something as naive that has been one of the important questions for philosophers since Plato.

    I would be challenged to come up with a more practical definition of 'real' than 'that what can be touched'.
    Power is nothing without intelligence.

    Sketchbook!

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney, AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    170
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    It is just another level of abstraction. When someone paints a 3D space on a 2D surface, they use tricks / abstractions that we recognise as something else. Much like words. What are they? Just because they are not tangible, does that make them worthless?

    At the end of the day, 'digital' is just another medium used to express an idea .... what is the idea that you are trying to express is what has value.

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Savannah, Georgia
    Posts
    248
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
    You can't touch, feel, taste or see gamma rays, but they exist. You can't see nitrogen in the atmosphere or touch it, yet it exist. You certianly can't touch or see gravity. The way to understand something untangible is by viewing the way it affects things around it. The idea of rebellion can't be physically seen or touched, but revolutions occur nonetheless. Naive is to deny the obvious nature of things around us. We can't know everything.
    "They were born, they grew up in the gutters, they went to work at twelve, they passed through a brief blossoming period of beauty and sexual desire, they married at twenty, they were middle-aged at thirty, they died, for the most part, at sixty. Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer, and, above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their minds."

    Sketchbook
    Alex Jones

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    986
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I kind of take back what I said before. I think it is important if a art piece is real or not (non digital or digital). For some reason I enjoy art done by real life media. Its more personal I think. In my mind, if the piece of art isn't personal its just a image with no actual meaning. Which is kinda boring. Heh, sorry if this doesn't make any sense, it was kinda hard to put it into words.

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts
    1,133
    Thanks
    11
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    I said 'practical' -- i.e. usable for everyday life.

    I agree with what you say devilock138 -- though i find that in everyday life these ideas are difficult for the human mind to work with. It must be convinced that there are in fact things existing that cannot be touched.

    And remember the mind can touch more than the body...

    The reason i commented is that i think that to qualify any stance on this as naive is to deny the fundamental impossibility to prove anything is real - the distinction in more and less real things or real and unreal things based on touch is just as valid as any other distinction.

    Remember that gamma rays are a theory - maybe they are proved scientifically but the image you have in your mind for them certainly is not. And even science is based in the world of ideas.

    But let's stay practical.
    Power is nothing without intelligence.

    Sketchbook!

  22. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    412
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
    Yes Erik, the fundamental impossibiity to prove anything as real. Even though I believe this myself, its just a theory. I know I exist but I can not prove it without the validation of another human being. I can not prove it myself.

    Devilock138 also has a very interesting argument. As for the obvious nature of things around us, thats the last thing it is. "obvious" The nature of things, the world, even truth is ever fluctuating Of course gamma rays and the like are proven to exist but how long will it take for the same truths to be proven to be something else. To put this simply a few hundred years ago the world was flat. It was not a theory or an idea it was flat. Until one day some one decided to think for himself and now we know it to be round. Just like the universe is infinite. Until that day comes when it is "proven" to be round.

  23. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Bulgaria
    Posts
    1,823
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 30 Times in 18 Posts
    posted by Erik

    dfacto...

    I think it's a bit naive to qualify something as naive that has been one of the important questions for philosophers since Plato.

    I would be challenged to come up with a more practical definition of 'real' than 'that what can be touched'.
    The philosophical question is immensly interesting, but ultimately moot. Ask me if my reality is real and I will say yes. Ask a raving lunatic living in a dream world the same thing and he will say yes as well. I'm right and so is he because it is all about perception. Ultimately the world is all in our head. Because of this, you just have to take it for granted that things are real, because if you don't, your reality begins to unravel and you can't be sure of anything.

    And "real" is not "that which can be touched" I can't touch emotions, but they are still real. Perhaps they are not concretely manifested in the world, but they are still there, manifested in a a different manner in my body through neural connections and chemical reactions.

    And imagine a blind man, who cannot feel sensations in his hand, touching a rock. Is it real to him? Is he aware of his existence? As far as he is concerned, the rock doesn't exist. To me, it clearly does. So once again, its all in our heads.

    Es fließt durch meine Venen, Es schläft in meinen Tränen
    Es läuft mir aus den Ohren, Herz und Nieren sind Motoren


  24. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Savannah, Georgia
    Posts
    248
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
    A blind man, a deaf man and a cynic see a rock on the ground.

    The blind man asks, "What does it look like?"
    The deaf man asks, "What does it sound like?"
    The cynic says, "I don't believe in rocks."

    The rock doesn't give a shit what these men think. The rock is there. Our opinions, our perspectives, our views and our egos don't change that. That's all everything around us is. It all exist, for certian. Each of us finds our own way to view it, but our view doesn't stop it from existing.

    Does that make any sense?
    "They were born, they grew up in the gutters, they went to work at twelve, they passed through a brief blossoming period of beauty and sexual desire, they married at twenty, they were middle-aged at thirty, they died, for the most part, at sixty. Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer, and, above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their minds."

    Sketchbook
    Alex Jones

  25. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Bulgaria
    Posts
    1,823
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 30 Times in 18 Posts
    That's true, but there are two realities. What is, and what we percieve. But the only one we truly know is the second one. Because its all in our heads, we can never be sure, so why even bother thinking about it. That's why I said that the philosophical aspect is moot.

    Es fließt durch meine Venen, Es schläft in meinen Tränen
    Es läuft mir aus den Ohren, Herz und Nieren sind Motoren


  26. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    412
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
    Thats true but its also a missconception. the notion of two realities begs for the comparison to daoism and the duality of the universe but thats also an illustion. The answer is infinite. There are countless hiding places, and only one truth, but the possibilities of truth are again as many as the hiding places.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 9
    Last Post: May 14th, 2012, 08:46 PM
  2. Digital Painting Process: Water Color Painting Simulation
    By bluefooted in forum ART TUTORIALS, ART TIPS & ART TRICKS - ARCHIVE
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: November 18th, 2009, 11:32 AM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: October 29th, 2008, 08:20 AM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: October 15th, 2008, 10:07 AM
  5. Replies: 10
    Last Post: December 21st, 2005, 06:38 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Designed by The Coldest Water, we build the coldest best water bottles, ice packs and best pillows.