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Thread: Fair or not

  1. #14
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    Teachers are not always right... and students are not always stupid and misbehaving.

    I realize there is a mystical "teachers can do no wrong" feeling when it comes to education, but there are many many many many cases of them stepping out of line (I have had a few too, who lowered my grade for their mistakes, such as actually losing my work after I had turned it in).

    Teachers are human too. There can be good and bad.

    This is the same attitude that allowed priests to molest kids for so long unquestioned... bleh. Just because they are in a position of authority or are older, doesn't mean they are incapable of acting in wrong ways.
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  3. #15
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    It's cool. I hate print making, too.

    And when I was in 10th grade, I didn't do any of the assignments in art class. I failed Art 10 twice (the same course, two semesters). So I had to do art 10 and 20 in grade 11. And I had less credits than I could've.

    What if you're working as an illustrator in ten years, and whoever you're working for gives you an assignment you don't like? Are you going to do whatever you want, instead, and then come post on conceptart because your boss was yelling at you?

    I don't think so.





    I was, however, sent to the office for making fun of my art teacher for playing Gears of War. That was stupid. :/
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  4. #16
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    He threatened you with an F?

    You're lucky. I would have tossed your ass out my fifth floor class window to see if you could fly...not to sound too hard on you or anything...

    (The Dean discovered that 11.7% of my students could fly. I taught at a very freaky school, apparently...)
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  6. #17
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    Part of growing up is learning to deal with difficult people that have authority over you.

    This is only the beginning.
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  8. #18
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    You need that teacher for a recommendation for Art cxc. That is where you shot yourself in the foot.

    tbh, I spend most of my time in school doing studies as well.
    But that's because my grades are fine and I don't depend on my teachers for anything, and I'm polite about it. If they ask me, I'll gladly explain my priorities, and most of them understand.
    Once they know that I'm not doing this as a "FUCK you-I'm-an-angsty-teen" attitude, then they just leave me be.

    Sure, I won't get that A, but I didn't care about it in the first place.
    Last edited by Vatsel; October 31st, 2009 at 05:06 AM.
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    Dude, no offense, but you're really presenting yourself as a classic sophomoric fifteen-year-old. You're saying all these things that don't make any sense, yet they still make sense to you... Your teacher is not conspiring against you. He's got enough other students and concerns that he couldn't be bothered with your whining. He just wants you to stop complaining, do some work, and God forbid learn something.

    I've done a couple years of printmaking - dry point, etching, aquatint, color etching, etc. I'm no master but I do know you don't need any one particular book to make a print. Why is that book so important? What's in it? A picture you wanted to copy? Or trace from? You don't need to trace to make a print, and you don't need a book for an image, when you've got internet access. Find an image off the net! If you need the book just for instruction, then why not just ask the teacher? Or a classmate - they all seem to know how to do it.

    As for getting the shoe image. You act like your teacher is tricking you, when your classmates just chose a ball? Guess what, a shoe's not much harder, and if you ever want to be an artist, you'd better learn how to draw shoes, and feet, and hands. Otherwise forums like this will make so much fun of you. Who's that comics artist who always hides hands and feet, often cropping them out of the frame? The guy with the pouches? Oh, yeah, and he traces other artists a lot too. Kid you do not want to grow up to be this guy.

    Do your assignments to the best of your ability, and complete them on time. Put time and care into them. Just because you chose a shoe, doesn't mean you have to make it photorealistic. Just do the best you can and try. And, for the love of God! Don't let this one teacher, who very well may be a prick, keep you from loving printmaking!!!! There are so many incredible printmakers in history! Rembrandt, Durer, Otto Dix, Mucha... Don't let one man ruin it for you. That's the most important lesson to remember as a young student.
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  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pigeonkill View Post
    My teacher would mutter “asshole.” I thought it was just me hearing things. Over the course of a few days he would say it louder and louder to the point people outside the elevator would turn heads.
    I found out he was a bit insecure because he hasn’t touched his anatomy studies for a long time. It was cool though, we learned together.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaekae
    You're lucky. I would have tossed your ass out my fifth floor class window to see if you could fly...
    Sorry, sorry, back up. Just so's I have it straight in my head. Are these nuggets of wisdom meant to make us sympathetic to the plight of art teachers?
    ...which is only my opinion.
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  12. #21
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    Ilaekae's posts always mix humor with truth. One of my professors went to Columbia as a student. He had an art professor who tore students' works from the wall and stomped on them, sometimes even throwing them out the window, whenever the work didn't show the lesson he wanted learned. It's a bit theatrical really, and could get a professor in trouble these days, especially if not tenured, but there's a point to it. This professor didn't get off on hurting or upsetting people. He was emphasizing the importance of art - it has to be important to you, or you're not worthy of pursuing it, and you have to know the fundamentals. He did all the ranting and raving to make it clear what these fundamentals are. My professor was glad for the experience he'd had. I probably wouldn't be ready for it as a teen, but now I'd welcome the opportunity.
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  13. #22
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    After reading this again, I think you also need to learn a little more about flexibility. Whenever you're doing an art project-- doesn't matter what media or type of project-- there will always be SOMETHING that happens that you didn't expect. You forget supplies, or your cat knocks the paint water all over your piece, your computer crashes the night you need to finish a project... there's a million things that could go wrong. You have to be able to adapt.

    Last year at a competition I brought all my watercolors... and then realized I forgot my palette. So I used the metal lid of my colored pencil box and borrowed a cup for water. I've used the back of several drawing pads taped together as a drawing board because I didn't have my own. Sometimes you just have to make do.

    Point being, while it was worthy for you to try and do something if you couldn't do the project... you don't seem to have made an effort to find a workaround for the project first. You needed the book? Why? Just to copy an image? Go find a reference elsewhere. As mentioned, when you have internet access there's really no excuse for not finding reference.

    Printmaking especially has a lot of steps that can all go wrong. You've sometimes got to find a way to fix things so that the project turns out ok, even if you don't have everything to hand.
    "The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the one doing it."

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  14. #23
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    Viridis I’m not sure. I was bummed out during the time when it happened and I can laugh about it now. If I was pitched out of window, I probably wouldn’t be happy about it…haha. Maybe it was his way to drive students out, but the big picture is if I lost my cool or didn't have self control. I wouldn't have received my extra anatomy lessons. Does that excuse the teacher's lack of professionalism, not at all. I feel it's better to make friends than enemies.

    TASmith gave some good advice. Maybe next time instead of a shoe you could have created a foot or a hand as your image in the printmaking. Adapt what you like into the assignment too, compromise.

    It is up to you Sukizan what you think is best. In the class if you don’t do your projects you get an “F,” if you do the same with your clients you get fired.
    Last edited by Pigeonkill; November 16th, 2009 at 04:14 PM.
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  15. #24
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    Woaaa, throwing papers out of the window? Yelling at students??

    When did it become "ok" again to treat students like that? If any of my teachers so much as spoke to me in a way I thought was disrespectful, i would be at the deans office in a heartbeat (maybe even during class, I would just walk out!) and give him a lecture on expectations for teachers behaviour (actually, I would probably lecture the teacher first if it was a minor issue, and then go to the dean if they didn't get their act together). I have actually done this a few times to teachers who stepped out of line (and the higher management sides with me).

    Had a class for typing and I wouldn't do the homework during the time the teacher had set aside for us to work. It was homework and simple, I felt it was up to me to decide when I wanted to do it as long as she had it by the due date. She started to get very angry at me and eventually it became too much (she started to threaten my grade, docking points beyond the grading of the assignment or class point distribution). So, I went to the dean and told him to handle the sittuation with the teacher. He agreed with me and had a talk with the teacher, my problems ended and the rest of the term was fine (I last minuted the homework at home when I felt like doing it).

    Just because you are there to learn doesn't mean you need to surrender self respect and the right to be treated like a human being. Maybe I am just sensitive about these things, but if I am giving the teacher a certain level of respect, I expect at least the same. I don't tolerate yelling or any other non-professional behavior. You start yelling or something as a manager in the real world, well, you get fired.

    I look at school like a business. There is no need to bring drama into the mix. If I don't do the work, mark down whatever grade you feel is correct and move on (if i disagree with the grade, I will say so and if it is a big difference and the teacher is unmovable, we take it to the dean and find mediation to re-grade the work *did this a few times also*). It's business, nothing personal, there is always someone in a higher position you can go to if you are having personality issues with someone directly over you.

    Actually, that is what they teach you that you SHOULD do if you are in the working world and you have an issue with your manager.

    First, take it to the manager. Try to talk to them about it. Always stay calm and act professionally.

    Second, if the problem is not resolved. Take it to the next level (whoever is over the manager or the human resources department. Also acceptable to take it to a higher level when the issue is something you can't speak to the manager about, but that is for more extreme issues of crossing the line, such as physical contact).

    Note: it is important to keep track of everythng and the steps you are taking to try and resolve the issue

    3rd. If the 2nd level does not correct the issue or ignores it and it continues, move up again. Show them what you have tried so far and the non-action by your manager and the level above them (both of them will get in trouble for not resolving the issue btw, it is their job). Normally you don't need to go higher than this, because this 3rd level is pretty objective and removed from the other 2 people (and they are normally in "conflict solving mode" where they only want to get the problem over with in a way that makes both parties happy).

    If no one does anything still. Well, there are higher levels you can go to (school boards, councils, founder of the school if it is a different structure). If the behaviour of the teacher is unacceptable, someone will eventually agree and take care of it.

    No one needs to put up with any type of abuse. No matter how small your job is or how little pay you get and how many hours they give you... you are never so low that it allows people to treat you in unprofessional ways. As long as you act in acceptable ways, you are always right and they are always wrong when they step outside of "ok behaviour".

    Being a student is the same. No where do you sign away your rights to be treated with respect. A lot of people will allow the abuse to continue because they simply don't realize that they have the right to say something. Students won't take complaints to the higher levels because they feel they are "just students" and the teachers are allowed to do whatever they like.... this is very very very wrong (and it translates into the working world too).

    I guess some people are just used to being walked over... and have so little self respect that they feel the teachers behaviour is justified. *shrug*
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  16. #25
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    Ivory_Oasis- While I understand you're point completely, I think given previous examples of your dealings with educators,you show a complete lack of respect for academics, especially those teaching you. Why even matriculate? You seem completely self-ensured about all your judgements, why put a teacher through hell? Just do it on your own. In my entire collegiate career, I never once had an issue with a professor. I've had some difficult ones, but it was never anything that I couldn't work through.

    Maybe it's just because I live in Texas and we're a bit old school, but, had I gone to make a complaint against a professor because I WOULDN'T do the work he/she allotted me in the time he/she designated and was, consequently, being treated rudely, I would have been laughed out of the office.

    Being a prick because you can doesn't translate into showing self-respect, it comes off as a complete lack of respect for your educator and all your peers.

    Once you undermine an educator's ability to steer his/her class, the lesson has ended.
    Last edited by {CKL}; October 31st, 2009 at 12:44 PM.
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  18. #26
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    Normally school has been more of just something I had to do... I just move faster than other students and wanted to be left alone. It's not that I have no respect for teachers (I always give them respect and act well) it's just they weren't teaching me anything.

    I have had countless run-ins with teachers who tried to "force" me to take notes. I refuse to, I don't learn as much when I take them...I just need to hear them say it in lecture, and read the chapter once, then I am ok. (I have only needed to take notes in 1 class my entire college career, just because the teacher didn't use a book and would give all information through lecture). Was I causing trouble by not needing / not wanting to take notes? or were the teachers digging for trouble by telling me how I "should" learn?

    These things aren't out of lack of respect.. even though the teacher is telling me to do one thing, I am doing another (because I am only interested in getting the grade I want...I realize the teachers are trying to help, but their attention is misplaced).

    That pretty much is the reason for most my conflicts with teachers. It's not my fault that I don't need the same things as other students, trying to stuff me into the pre-decided role that the average student needs is like trying to fit a square peg through a circle opening. The more the teachers try to work me through that hole, the more conflict arises.

    So, it has been "give me the assignment, give me the book, tell me when the tests are...and leave me to do it". Then everyone is happy and I do the work, the teachers give the grades, and everyone treats eachother with respect. Some teachers get it, and we get along great. Other teachers feel it is their duty to "turn me into a student" ... and... well...friction happens then heh.
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