Loomis + Vilppu + Mattesi: Difficulty combining figure/gesture drawing methods
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Thread: Loomis + Vilppu + Mattesi: Difficulty combining figure/gesture drawing methods

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    Question Loomis + Vilppu + Mattesi: Difficulty combining figure/gesture drawing methods

    Hi,

    Sorry if this isn't the right section of the forum for this sort of question.

    I'm going to refer a lot to Loomis, Vilppu and Mattesi, so if you haven't seen what those guys have drawn you might want to save your time and skip my thread here. It'd hard enough to understand me even if you know them!

    This gets really rambly since I'm confused about the whole thing, so I'd like to say first that I know I'm not understanding the essence of Mattesi's approach properly. So, when I say stuff that sounds like I'm complaining or criticizing, I'm not. I'm just trying to explain how it's malformed in my comprehension so that you can get an idea of how I screwed up and help me correct it.


    In trying to teach myself an approach to drawing the human figure, most of what I've learnt has come from books by Vilppu and Loomis. While I could see I had a long way to go, I thought that I had a pretty good understanding of how good figure drawing was generally done.

    But recently I picked up Mattesi's books and videos, which teach a method that I really dig but can't quite understand how it relates to what Vilppu and Loomis do in a way that I could incorporate both into my own personal process of drawing.

    With Loomis and Vilppu, it seems like the essential thing is to get a basic guideline for the gesture down, and then build volumes around it. But with Mattesi, it appears to me that the method consists of conceiving of shapes which express the gesture, and producing them in an illustrative, linear fashion, kind of like calligraphy where every line is final, fixed and intentional. Like a minimalistic Aubrey Beardsley drawing but with more gestural "oomph" and more anatomical detail and less eight-foot-phalluses.

    Am I right in seeing the distinction between the two as the former (L. and V.) being more akin to traditional fine art and the latter as being more a method of illustration?

    In any case, the trouble is for me that while Mattesi spends the first part of the book on perspective, I don't really get how to implement his methods in a way that results in a dimensional artwork. My attempts turn out totally flat, at least in comparison to when I'm working with the Loomis/Vilppu method. Of course one look at Mattesi's drawings shows that, given enough time, he doesn't have that problem at all.

    I know that the way I'm describing all of this makes very little sense, and I'm sorry for that since you've been nice enough to read my thread. It's just that it all makes little sense to me in the first place.

    If I had to try to summarize the problem, it's that I love both methods, but their premises seem incompatible: in the V/P way, it feels like you're sculpting, but in the Mattesi way, it feels like you're doing something more like ink drawing, where the lines are the focus.

    I love the volume and depth and solidity of the Loomis/Vilppu method, and I love equally the dynamism and rhythm of Mattesi's. But it seems like the two approaches rely upon completely different processes. When I draw a Loomis/Vilppu drawing, I start with light gesture guidelines, then proceed to build up big volumes, then add on little ones. And when I draw a Mattesi drawing, I feel more like I'm just planting down pretty lines that need to follow rules of how they relate to other pretty lines. It feels a lot more abstract, and much more difficult, sort of like I'm skipping a few steps ahead in how drawings are made. It comes out looking a little Art Nouveau and a lot bad (my fault, not Art Nouveau's or Mattesi's.)

    I just can't figure out how to make the two meet up and play together. Can they?

    The only thing I can think of, unless someone can help me to understand a more fundamental way in which they can connect, is that an artist could use Mattesi's approach to design a silhouette, and then build volumes within it. Kind of using Mattesi's whole program just as a way of rendering the guide for the gesture that one needs in the Loomis/Vilppu method. But he obviously doesn't work that way, and he gets awesome results. And while I do think that some of his drawings read as "flat" in comparison to Vilppu/Loomis drawings, he's also made plenty that possess just as much dimensionality as theirs, so I guess it's not due to anything inherent to his process.

    Or is Mattesi's way a lot more complex than I perceive, and it's based on comprehending these crazy shapes as volumes? So I should really be "seeing" in my mind's eye these amorphous tear-drops and lemon wedges and water-balloons of forceful-form in perfect perspective?

    Sorry for the dumb questions and the rambling way in which I've asked them.
    It's as tough for me to make sense of the concepts as it is for you to make sense of me, I bet.

    Thanks so much for your help!

    bye i love you

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    tldr

    You focus to much on method and not on practice.

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    double post dmnt

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    I appreciate that you take the time to reply. Thanks.
    I don't see the two as contending as if in a dualistic antagonism. One practices methods. I've been practicing one method, and now I'm practicing another, and I'd like to practice both at once if it's possible.

    Is my question really that weird? I know I'm not an artist proper yet, but if it's so at odds with the mindset of an artist that it's impossible to answer, I'd be really curious and grateful to learn exactly how.

    edit: i didn't know what "tldr" meant until I looked it up. now i know you have no idea what my question was. i retract my gratitude (in this specific instance only) but i still love you.

    Last edited by Nomnom De Guerre; October 14th, 2009 at 09:34 PM.
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    I'm familiar with Loomis, Vilppu, and Mattesi is new to me. (Off the bat looking at his cover, I assume he has a cartoonist/animation approach.

    I admire your enthusiasm, but if you haven't be artistically cross-training or just starting out on anatomy. Three books might be a bit much too chew at once. Digest the ones that feel most natural approach to you. You can absorb those the quickest and it will serve as your foundation. If it takes you two years to really tap into what the author has to say along with tons of practice, that's normal.

    You'll train your eye, hands, mind and going back to those guides to get a new perspective.(On what worked for them, but it might not do so for you)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nomnom De Guerre View Post
    "I just can't figure out how to make the two meet up and play together. Can they?"
    Eventually you will create your own style, apply methods that work for you and cut out what seems unnecessary. Some methods will feel like oil and water when mixed, because they are different approaches. Not everybody see's the same shade of red.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nomnom De Guerre View Post
    In any case, the trouble is for me that while Mattesi spends the first part of the book on perspective, I don't really get how to implement his methods in a way that results in a dimensional artwork.
    I'm going to assume his intention. (Though I haven't seen the book) He wants you to have a firm understanding of perspective before tossing you concepts of constructing body parts out of shapes. Because if someone says. Draw a cube...there would be 360 degrees and angles to draw it from and you need to be comfortable drawing that shape at any given angle before applying it to more heavy duty concepts such as anatomy. Vipplu covers that a bit of that in meshing two shapes together like a pillow.

    I think you are on the right track. You have good observation skills. Organize and practice away the methods that click for you.

    Last edited by Pigeonkill; October 14th, 2009 at 11:14 PM.
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    Hi Pigeonkill. Thanks for your response.

    I suppose you're right htat it would be best to concentrate on Loomis and Vilppu first, since they make a little more sense to me at this time.

    Like I said, I know I don't understand Mattesi properly, but I don't think he's saying what you describe in your final paragraph. I don't get why he spends so much time on perspective but then goes immediately into talking about abstract and stylistic shapes instead of 3D forms. Loomis and Vilppu are more like those who suggest you construct out of volumes, and Mattesi's method is called "forceful form," where you draw a straight against a curve for each segment of the body. I don't get how you are supposed to do that in a volumetric fashion instead of a linear fashion. I guess I'll try registering on his forum and asking him there, if it doesn't cost too much to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomnom De Guerre View Post
    I appreciate that you take the time to reply. Thanks.
    I don't see the two as contending as if in a dualistic antagonism. One practices methods. I've been practicing one method, and now I'm practicing another, and I'd like to practice both at once if it's possible.

    Is my question really that weird? I know I'm not an artist proper yet, but if it's so at odds with the mindset of an artist that it's impossible to answer, I'd be really curious and grateful to learn exactly how.

    edit: i didn't know what "tldr" meant until I looked it up. now i know you have no idea what my question was. i retract my gratitude (in this specific instance only) but i still love you.
    I skimmed, but honestly your the guy who posted about not be able to draw an egg. I think its pretty safe bet to guess you talk more about drawing then you actually draw. Your just starting there isn't anything wrong with that, but you be better off simply sitting down and drawing 30 pages of shit then trying to rip out vilppu or loomis.

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    I've checked the Mattesi book out of the library a few times:

    1. There's something disingenuous about, essentially, calling "gesture" "force" and writing a whole book about it without giving proper credit to Kimon Nicolaides.

    2. If it's so great for animators, why doesn't Mattesi actually show you how to do traditional animated sequences, like Preston Blair? (The book's more about doing figure drawing with what Nicolaides would call "extended gesture studies.")

    3. Why doesn't he show you how to actually finish a drawing?

    4. Why does "force" always seem to be drifting to a Christofer Hart style of cartoon appearance?

    5. Finally, most of what Mattesi has to say about perspective is: a. superficial and b. wrong. (In the real world the 4th dimension is time. Simulated "barrel distortion" doesn't put you into the 4th dimension. I just can't square any of that stuff with standard academic works on perspective!)

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    Kamber and Kev: You raise some very good points. Thank you very much. So you don't think that there's anything methodological to the distinctive character of Mattesi's drawings? It's simply a matter of making the gestures themselves more abstract to begin with?
    Especially illuminating was point #2 from Kamber: I have the Preston Blair book also (this is why I was asking about eggs!) and what strikes me about Mattesi's method is that it seems it would be a nightmare to animate a character with! How could you keep anything consistent, if it's all just amorphous forms? It seems like the methods detailed by Vilppu and Loomis would be much more sensible in the field of animation - perhaps even essential, if your style of animation is of the Disney/WB/Bluth variety. And yet it seems that many animators try to implement his style, and much artwork from schools like CalArts seems to be influenced by a similar approach. In fact it seems like you can't get accepted to schools like that unless you draw very well in that sort of style.
    It's all terribly confusing to me. I think I'll just stick to Vilppu, Loomis, Blair and Nicolaides for now, and trust that with foresight I can compose more visually rythmic gestures than I have previously.

    DeadlyFreeze: I appreciate your eagerness to help me. I think that I've given you an inaccurate impression of what I'm trying to learn and how I'm learning it, but I don't know how to correct that. None of the books that I have told me how you draw an egg in perspective, though they told me how to do the same with many other forms. I just wanted to know how. I'm not trying to copy Vilppu and Loomis exactly, but to learn their methods. I haven't gone beyond the exercises with cubes and spheres. I want to take each step slowly to learn it properly. I'm having difficulties and committing many stupidities, I'm sure, but one thing that I cannot be doing is rushing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomnom De Guerre View Post
    I'm not trying to copy Vilppu and Loomis exactly, but to learn their methods. I haven't gone beyond the exercises with cubes and spheres. I want to take each step slowly to learn it properly. I'm having difficulties and committing many stupidities, I'm sure, but one thing that I cannot be doing is rushing.
    Are you working from a model at all? Because most of what Mattisi says, as well as big chunks of Vilpuu and Loomis, isn't going to make any sense until you apply it to drawing a real live person.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamber Parrk View Post
    I've checked the Mattesi book out of the library a few times:

    1. There's something disingenuous about, essentially, calling "gesture" "force" and writing a whole book about it without giving proper credit to Kimon Nicolaides.

    2. If it's so great for animators, why doesn't Mattesi actually show you how to do traditional animated sequences, like Preston Blair? (The book's more about doing figure drawing with what Nicolaides would call "extended gesture studies.")

    3. Why doesn't he show you how to actually finish a drawing?

    4. Why does "force" always seem to be drifting to a Christofer Hart style of cartoon appearance?

    5. Finally, most of what Mattesi has to say about perspective is: a. superficial and b. wrong. (In the real world the 4th dimension is time. Simulated "barrel distortion" doesn't put you into the 4th dimension. I just can't square any of that stuff with standard academic works on perspective!)
    Is there a reason he needs to? Does every drawing book need to mention the great masters? Many don't.

    Force is more about Character Design, and pushing the body for action, which *can*(and actually is) be used for animation principles. If you want a book on how to animate, there's nothing wrong with checking out another book.

    This is not "THE" drawing book, this is an addition to a concept that isn't covered (much) in other books as they are primarily focused on basic anatomy.

    I don't see any relation of his work to Christopher Hart? He's an actual instructor for one. Some of his students are actually on this site btw.

    I don't use every part of his book verbatim, but there are concepts he mentions that help. Pushing distortion of the body for action or force, is a bit more tricky on how to exaggerate the form and to still get it recognizable. He has his students do this in a grease pencil and newsprint.

    If you don't like the book, that's perfectly fine. However, I do want to clear up some of the points you're making because it can also be misleading.

    To the OP. Please just draw. Keep drawing. Go to life drawing classes and draw the figure. Elwell is right. You're basically coming here asking questions about "how to drive" without being behind the wheel. Without one key part, you can read as many books as you want but there's a difference between reading about learning to draw and drawing to learn.

    Last edited by Arshes Nei; October 15th, 2009 at 10:32 AM.
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    No life classes here. I draw photographs. The only instructional option I've found that my car can make it to is to pay $500 to go draw wax fruit.

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    Do observational drawing then. Drawing from photos is fine to an extent, but practicing drawing people from life (in cafes, on trains etc) will help you get a better understanding. It can be a bitch when starting out (Im still pretty crap at it myself) because obviously people won't stay still for long, but you won't regret it.

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    I love Mike Mattesi's book. The rhythm and shapes in his drawings are great. I have no idea why owes anything to Niccolaides...

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    Eggs

    Nomnom,

    In Cartoon Animation, Preston Blair stresses the importance of "sketching." In working with a sequence of drawings, he demonstrates that working the "primitives"-- ovoids, pears, etc. into gear is not necessarily a "clean" process. [This is illustrated with a gator and a Micky Mouse figure on p. 128. The dancing hippo on p. 158 is also a good example.]

    It seems that Nicolaides' "gesture drawing" is a form of "sketching" that animators value for accomplishing the "sketching" that Blair indicates is necessary to work a character through a series of movements that can then be dealt with by a "clean up artist."

    My criticism of Mattesi? He does not ground his "system" in the fundamental gesture drawing skills/exercises developed by Nicolaides-- a writer to whom he is clearly indebted. [Other than incorporating various Disney principles of design along the way, I don't see where there's any difference between the concept of "force" and the concept of "gesture."] The disservice to the reader? Mattesi just sort of flings the reader into the middle of gesture drawing without establishing an elementary foundation.

    Further, he does not show the reader [U]how to apply[U] his system to animation-- despite his book's title! Hence, some of your confusion!

    Arshes Nei,

    I have no desire to beat up on one of your favorite authors! As well, I'm not totally dismissive of Matessi. Rather, I've found this to be one of the odder books out there for the reasons I've discussed and the points that Nomnom has made.

    But, perhaps some of the Matessi-ites here on CA can explain to me how "force" and "gesture" are different animals! (Other than that he mixes some "squash and stretch" into his gestures).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamber Parrk View Post
    But, perhaps some of the Matessi-ites here on CA can explain to me how "force" and "gesture" are different animals! (Other than that he mixes some "squash and stretch" into his gestures).
    It's not really a favorite author, but rather I found Mattesi filled in some gaps that isn't taught as much.

    Gesture is getting the overall feeling, and while it doesn't have to be accurate it's something to capture of the moment. Force is exactly that - it's forcing or pushing the design to an exaggerated limit. So a forceful gesture is an exaggerated one.

    Basically the feeling I get from your argument is somewhat similar to Burne Hogarth fans vs detractors. The main argument being is that Hogarth is bad for learning regular anatomy. That's a very valid point. However, Hogarth is good (if it clicks with you) for learning other principles with anatomy to push a design.

    That's why it's ok to use a combination of regular anatomy to study, then once you get proportions and how to see things, you use force to apply those principles in a dynamic fashion.

    I just wouldn't recommend Mattesi's book first. I honestly don't think this is a beginner's book. I think this is a book for more intermediate artists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    * * *Basically the feeling I get from your argument is somewhat similar to Burne Hogarth fans vs detractors. * * *
    Pretty much!

    All in all, I think it's good that we can have a spirited discussion about all of these books and authors that we are all trying to make some sense out of.

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    Force vs gesture

    I love the "spirited" discussion that is occurring here. I just joined the site and am pleased to see these types of debates. I thought I would clear up the gesture/force discussion. Most gesture classes discuss how to sketch the figure in a quick manner hoping to obtain the movement of the figure, The FORCE books describe a clear process of how energy moves through the body in a specific manner that is founded in anatomy which has been designed by gravity. I also illustrate what I have found to be the best type of line to evoke the feeling of force to the artist's experience while they are drawing. FORCE does not have to exaggerate but it can be used to do so.

    In my first book, I describe how to use the concept of force to define form and shape. This alludes to what I think makes a strong draftsman, someone who can see silhouette and fill it with mass. All of this needs to occur while staying aware of the function of the object you are drawing.

    In my own growth as an artist, I have obviously read and utilized the theories found in other drawing books and how found that they lack the quintessential rule of form following function. Most drawing books discuss form and most rarely describe function or how to even think about it. Nomnom started this thread with a pertinent question. How do you use all of the different methods that are described out in the world of art education? In a way that has been already answered here. Draw often and do your best to draw from reality, not photos. Try many methods of drawing and find what works for you. For me personally, I draw in a few different manners depending on what I am drawing and what my thought process is while I am drawing. When drawing anything organic, it is hard for me to ignore the forces found in nature. I can't help but see the power found in the human figure. Without the concept of force, we are just drawing anatomy with no sense of function or the beauty of how we as humans use our bodies.

    BTW, my book is not about animating, it is about figure drawing for animators because animation is about the abstraction of force and movement. Perhaps someday I will write a book about animation but right now I am in the middle of my third book.

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    Hey Michael, thanks for posting here and welcome to the boards.

    I found your book very usefull for searching the gravity and forces working when the model is posing, especially in akward poses. Thinking about the why helps to understanding the pose beter. Also the Lemon slice is very usefull. Vilppu teaches the same stuff with straight vs curves, its very helpfull when drawing from the model or from the imagination.

    In fact Kevin Chen also uses the Lemon Slice alot in his classes and he got it from your book, so you can use this information for any style you want.

    People need to look further then just the images in these instruction books, reading and understanding is far more important. Its up to you what you do with the information basicly.

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    Agreed Jonas and thank you for the welcome. Books are great IF you use them. I know students who buy books but only read them and do not use the info found within them. Then there are those who only use the info in the books but do not research real life. The ultimate scenario for me when I instruct is to have a class of eager students who have my books and who are in a class with me and a real figure model.

    One of the main differences between reading my books and being present in a class of mine is seeing me draw (which I am trying to fix with my site.) The reason I say this is because the physical act of drawing directly represents the way any artist thinks and feels while creating art.

    Most drawing instructors teach students that the act of learning how to draw is the reason to draw. When I teach a drawing class, I teach students to draw as a vehicle to experience the forces and life of the model. That is the carrot. When I ran my school, what was most disconcerting was listening to students that came to me expressing their lack of desire to draw because they were bored and tired of copying the model...and quite frankly I don't blame them. A live human being is not there to copy, in my humble opinion, but to empathize with which is why I teach LIFE drawing from a LIVE model. If you are going to copy something, use a plaster cast. Don't waste the model's time while they are exerting all of their energy revealing to us their humanity. This humanity is what allows us to feel and understand what is happening to the model...this is what I try to teach. All of the technical info is there to assist is making this experience possible, not to just learn the techniques of drawing.

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  39. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Are you working from a model at all? Because most of what Mattisi says, as well as big chunks of Vilpuu and Loomis, isn't going to make any sense until you apply it to drawing a real live person.
    This!

    I was doing Hogarth copies, Loomis and Hultgren and my sketches were horribly stiff. This was even after attending a few non-instructed $5 life drawing sessions at night. But, seeing someone (my prof) actually do a demo and watch her posture, how she held the charcoal, the process from a gesture to a more modeled figure was sooo much more useful and helped me get more out of Brigman, Loomis, and even Muybridge plates.

    If you're REALLY interested in theory, which it seems you are. You might want to look into Stanchfield's books. Just get the first one, and I think it'll sink in why Matessi stresses the humanity of a character.

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    Best Thread Necro Ever!

    Mr. Mattesi,

    I'm in the process of acquiring your book (again) from the King Co. Library system.

    Your responses epitomize what I'm really growing to appreciate about CA!

    In reviewing this thread, I hope you don't see my postings as an overly harsh "in your face," disrespectful form of commentary-- I'm in the habit of quietly bitching about gaps, leaps, and omissions in the works of authors such as Bridgman and Hogarth who are quite dead and immune from questions!

    In the next day or so, I'm going to try to get back to you with some constructive questions that other might find interesting as well.

    Cheers,

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    Ugh, seems I posted on the wrong thread.

    Last edited by moot.xk; January 5th, 2010 at 11:29 AM.
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    From back of "Force" book:

    "Prepare to experience a brand new thought process on the drawing of life and the expression of energy."

    "Michael's groundbreaking theory"


    From "The natural way to draw":
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    From Brigman's "Life drawing", chapter "Balance":

    "In a drawing there must be a sense of security, of a balance between the opposite or counteracting forces, regardless of where the center line may fall... In a way, the pendulum of a clock... start the pendulum swinging. It describes an arc, moving back and forth, but always about a fixed center of gravity... This feeling or sense of balance which must be recorded in the flow or sweep of a drawing is continuity and rhythm."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_Beauty
    It goes back before Hogarth, I just can't conveniently find the quotes I need.

    Leonardo:
    " A good painter has two chief objects to paint, man and the intention of his soul; the former is easy, the latter hard, because he has to represent it by the attitudes and movements of the limbs."

    Analysis of "forces":
    Name:  flow.jpg
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    Diagram of muscular tension and movement as it actually appears to viewer:
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    "Force" is a fragment of the total meaning of gesture.

    Last edited by armando; January 5th, 2010 at 01:04 AM. Reason: adjusted diagrams
    Sketchbook

    "Beliefs are rules for action"
    "Knowledge is proven in action."
    "It's use is it's meaning."
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    Arshes Nei's Avatar
    Arshes Nei is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
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    I removed the abusive tags. Guys, if you want to tag the threads do so accurately and remove your prejudices. If you want to discuss things with the author go ahead and do so, but at the same time it may be also wise to make another thread on it.

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  45. #27
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    OmenSpirits is offline Commercial-Illustrator in-training, NOT an artist. Level 13 Gladiator: Retiarius
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Mattesi View Post
    I love the "spirited" discussion that is occurring here. I just joined the site and am pleased to see these types of debates. I thought I would clear up the gesture/force discussion. Most gesture classes discuss how to sketch the figure in a quick manner hoping to obtain the movement of the figure, The FORCE books describe a clear process of how energy moves through the body in a specific manner that is founded in anatomy which has been designed by gravity. I also illustrate what I have found to be the best type of line to evoke the feeling of force to the artist's experience while they are drawing. FORCE does not have to exaggerate but it can be used to do so.

    In my first book, I describe how to use the concept of force to define form and shape. This alludes to what I think makes a strong draftsman, someone who can see silhouette and fill it with mass. All of this needs to occur while staying aware of the function of the object you are drawing.

    In my own growth as an artist, I have obviously read and utilized the theories found in other drawing books and how found that they lack the quintessential rule of form following function. Most drawing books discuss form and most rarely describe function or how to even think about it. Nomnom started this thread with a pertinent question. How do you use all of the different methods that are described out in the world of art education? In a way that has been already answered here. Draw often and do your best to draw from reality, not photos. Try many methods of drawing and find what works for you. For me personally, I draw in a few different manners depending on what I am drawing and what my thought process is while I am drawing. When drawing anything organic, it is hard for me to ignore the forces found in nature. I can't help but see the power found in the human figure. Without the concept of force, we are just drawing anatomy with no sense of function or the beauty of how we as humans use our bodies.

    BTW, my book is not about animating, it is about figure drawing for animators because animation is about the abstraction of force and movement. Perhaps someday I will write a book about animation but right now I am in the middle of my third book.
    I LOVE YOUR BOOK!

    Force: Dynamic Life Drawing for Animators, Second Edition

    http://www.amazon.com/Force-Dynamic-...2660096&sr=8-1

    After filling half a sketchbook and reading the text I was able to make my illustrations feel more nature in movement.

    I applied the dynamics of animation to life drawing.

    Thank you!

    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
    -John Huston, Director
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    A dreaded Vilppu cliche': There's no rules only tools

    The tools he's referring to is aspects or minni mental programs you use or differant interpretations you need to look at or choose to use when you analyse or draw something. Some tools are vital or essential some are optional or just to enrich.

    Personal style will determine what you overuse or underuse but then again those two words are invalid with the statement anyway.

    All of them used rythm and force to a degree, Mattesi just likes to really push that stuff though because he likes to express himself that way. That is not to say that he does not have some of the other tools running automatically in the back in the brain to help him make drawing descisions still, it just might be that he takes for granted that the viewer don't need them or that everyone should have them by now. It also doesn't mean that he won't be able to draw like loomis or Vilppu.

    With studies or the way Vilppu teach however it's important or helps as a learning strategy in general to granulate your tools and master them in their singled out simple way so that they can integrate to your hearts content into whatever you do in your matrix. So spending some time drawing like a Mattesi freak won't hurt. Unless that style is like a virus that eats away on your drawing untill everything you draw looks whacked. Mwahahahahahahaha!!

    I would say I need a Matessi period to "loosen up" or to learn just how loose this goose can be. His style would be effective because it's basically all loose. I have realised a little contour line/wireframe dimention that I really need to push at the moment because I am ready to do that. And noticing yet again how those little vague character blobs of basic volume is the way to go to start and develop that Luck Dragon I wish to draw. There's programs for everything.

    Every art teacher takes atleast something for granted in themselves because of their own personal conditions. Sometimes you have to look around for missing links.

    But as I have learnt after obtaining a minni library already is that you only get so many instances where you looked at some explanation or drawing and magic happened without lifting a pencil. The majority of what makes artists good is getting a set of tools or meta programs for drawing(Buy now) and mastering each and that means drawing and drawing etc. Desighning or finding your personal next step is a key I think and if you are not in school or being paid finding inspiration and motivation, time and the right energy to recieve the next step is also a challenge, one that might take months untill you get it. But I don't have pressure and find my way back here just because I love it so it's no use complaining.

    Last edited by George Abraham; January 5th, 2010 at 07:50 AM.
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    Scetchbook: View the exhibitionist's stuff.
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    thank you to those of you who are using the Force books and applying the concepts found within. I love hearing about how it is inspiring and helping artists. To Armando, rhythm as an idea has been around for hundreds of years. I have learning about it from my mentors and some of the books you have mentioned. Not sure if you have read my books but they are the only ones of their kind that bring the principles CLEARLY described within them together which is what makes the books so unique and revolutionary. If you find some other book is of greater assistance to you, then you are free to use those.

    Force is not a fragment of gesture but its foundation.

    I also attached the image of FORCES on the arm to rectify how it works.

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  49. #30
    kev ferrara is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
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    The surety with which you express your opinion makes it very difficult to disagree respectfully.

    So I'll just say I disagree with your assertions, both verbal and visual.

    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=101106

    My "Smilechild" Music. Plus a medley of Commercial Music Cues and a Folksy Jingle!:
    http://www.myspace.com/kevferrara
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