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Thread: Looking for advice crits and maybe some friends?!?!!

  1. #31
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    Hey mate,

    Thanks for stopping by my sketchbook. Couple of things. The Barque needs to be brought up as one. You have laid it in but the shading in the shoulder is getting way ahead of yourself. Draw the shape of each shadow and fill it very lightly. Correct as necessary. Also, if this is your first one go easy on yourself and do a simpler drawing, I sure as hell did. That ones a complicated one to say the least. I admire your enthusiasm though.

    I bought a book called 'Anatomy Lessons from the masters' and copied a mess of drawings out of it. Did wonders for my drawing technique, I highly suggest you take a peek.

    Best of luck.

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    The Bargue study is looking good. Like ConCrete said, it is a big step, but you seem to be doing well with it thus far.

    Keep up the good work!

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    I see you've jumped into a Bargue drawing! I'm sure you will learn a lot in the process of doing it. Seems like it would hone your observational skills.

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    Marian Hey thanx for the links found them very useful! I have been trying to track that book down for a while now but i cant seem to find one that does not require me remortgaging the house i shall keep hunting and probably end up selling my mum to own a copy but hey needs must! I think i may have picked a plate a bit above my talent too and as concrete said in here i am not going about it in the right way either thus me needing to read the text within the book too sorry mum but you gotta go on e-bay!! Thanx for the continued support

    ConCrete Hey concrete thanx for looking and thanx for the advice on the bargue as i have just explained to marian up there i dont own the book yet so i was kinda winging it think i will go back to that one when ready as for the book thanx for the heads up its on order as we speak

    purplegoat I have learned that they are well hard and that my observational skills need a right good dusting off thanx for stopping by

    Ok not got too much for now as i seem to be reading and surfing more than drawing naughty me.

    1 Old guy from photo ref on black card done in charcoal pencil really enjoyed using those too
    2 Bought a book called "Rendering in pen and ink" by Arthur Guptil found it in my local oxfam for £2.99 now thats a bargain the book is pretty darn good and i started to make some marks with my ink pen and voila some inky mess

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    Hey! Thanks for visiting my SB. You're showing SO MUCH progress! Really great stuff - and in such a short time too. Very cool

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    Hey latigid! Thanks for commenting on my SB, it's really appreciated!
    I've watched you progressing here with a quite interesting studies. I followed Betty Edward's books too, but i've never heard of Bargue and it seems interesting. Do you have any further info like sites or the likes regarding that bargue (i prefer online infos, though. i kinda broke at the moment )?
    Anyway keep up the study. That daily self portrait idea is good.

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    A lot of good work going on here.

    Kudos especially on the master studies and the Bargues. I think you should continue those, as well as work on some Bridgman for understanding. Understanding is what you need to truly improve.

    I see that you're going down some paths that I've been down that led nowhere, though. First one is Betty Edwards.

    Don't get me wrong; if you're into it, I would finish it. But it does two significant things wrong: 1) It does not teach understanding 2) It makes you do blind contour drawing, which is one of the biggest wastes of time you will ever do when drawing.

    That's not coming from me; that's coming from master art instructor Myron Barnstone; a guy who's run his own school of classical drawing since '77. He says it's worthless, so I'm inclined to agree with him.

    The reason it's worthless is two fold: It offers no understanding of form... and you're drawing contour... which makes a drawing FLAT.


    One thing Betty's book does do is prove to any amateur that they have the ability inside them to draw freakishly well. But, since it offers no real understanding, I see no value in the book beyond that.

    Another thing is the use of photos for reference. Don't. Mentler (a poster on this board, and a master of drawing in his own right) says not to do it, because the camera only has one eye... unlike humans. This means a camera image introduces distortion that is always present when people copy from photos. If he works from photos, he forces himself to draw the image BACKWARDS, which makes his mind have to engage his knowledge of form and anatomy, which then makes the photo ref O.K.

    Try to draw from life. I bought a life-size skull (plastic model) from an art store, and plan to use that when I can't do life drawings from the nude (I'm going to two sessions a week).

    Just thought I'd save you some significant time-wasting, and help you progress faster.

    But certainly do master studies. They all saw in stereo, unlike a camera

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  9. #38
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    kittymeow84 Thank you for the kind words

    witcrack Hey thanx for the visit regarding the Bargue stuff i found a fair amount of info just by googling "Charles Bargue" the actual book of the drawing course is rather expensive and not available on the net i'm afraid although there are some plates out there that you might want to copy hope this helps

    p sage Thanx! Reagarding the Betty Edwards book i think i understand what you are saying but i do find what she is saying about the right and left hemispheres of the brain dealing with the different aspects of how we see. From what i have read so far i think her book is more of an aid to get your brain thinking and seeing in the "artists way" And something you said it does make me realise that actually i might be able to draw given time and practice. Regarding the photo ref i know its not good practice but sometimes i just wanna draw something that i like the look of and as photos are readily available i think i use them for ease i loved doing the master studies and will definitely be doing some more of those in the near future. At the moment i am trying my hand at some still life stuff which is making me realise that i need to start to "see" in the right way. Thank you for dropping by and taking the time to offer some sound advice!

    Ok onto my measly updates been trying to do some still life studies just simple stuff to start which i am actually not finding too simple!

    1 First attempt with a rolled up ball of sculpey a little wooden ornament thingy and a block of wood tried to tone my paper first and it did not turn out well!!
    2 That lump of sculpey again and the block of wood plus a little terracotta amphora thing this one went a bit better seemed to "see" it more clearly
    3 Tried a small vase thing but i have a window behind the setup and the light here i realised is bloody awful the weather is going from dark to bright sunlight constantly and confusing the hell out of me i think i might attempt this again at night with a spot light setup

    Anyways thanx for looking

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    Hey Glenn glad to see you've been hard at it. I think the old guy drawing is good and I like the different approach you've taken. I did wonder however, is it a bit of a self portrait of how you think you look and feel after all your hard work studying!

    Jealous you found a bargain book especially about pen and inking as that is one of my favourites. I can't wait to see what you do based on what you've already shown. Its great you've started to do still life studies as well. I understand what you mean about the light changing all the time. Makes it very difficult for us rookies. Hopefully I can help you by telling you about North light. If you have a window in your house that faces north trying setting up an object there. Keep stopping and looking at it at different times of day and you'll find the light stays kinda consistent. Its quite amazing really. I did my still life of my garlic bulbs like this over a period of days. If you can try it out.

    Also do I hear and see the mention of sculpey. Do you like modelling? It is something else I've always wanted to do. Had my first go last Christmas which was how I ended up on CA.org If you have done any models I would love to see. That said keep up the good work you are progressing and learning all the time and it is showing.

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    RE: "Seeing" right....

    I can understand your perspective on that, because I went through the Betty Edwards stuff a few years back, too.

    The best you can get out of that (IMO) is just the ability to focus on an object and not let your eyes glaze over when you're trying to put down your marks.

    Replacing the symbols you see with forms (symbol of an eye for the actual thing), etc, I understand what you're getting at.

    But in reality, if you understand from the inside out what it is you're putting on paper, then that stuff doesn't matter IMO. In other words, if you understand the bones, it contributes to your understanding of the muscles. If you understand the muscles, it gives you a good understanding of the large masses in the body. If you understand those, you understand the body. If you understand the body, you can draw it in any pose imaginable--and you won't be relying on the crutch of reference.

    Reference is good when you're learning, but it can become a crutch. If you ever want to draw from imagination, learning how to draw things "from the inside out" is what you should pursue (IMO).

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    Hey, thanks for stopping by my SB. I see you have progressed and are improving. Nice work on the portraits. I know from experience that portraits are definitely a difficult subject. yeah those davinci studies were pretty fun to draw and they helped me quite a bit.

    Keep up the drawing, i'll pop back in here later to see your updates. Always like to see new stuff. adding you to my friends too.

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    Marian Rowling Hey Marian had to laugh at your reply that is definitely how i feel sometimes when things are just not going right! I have read about the north light set up somewhere but im afraid the only north facing windows in the house are Olivers and the kitchen so looks like i might be drawing whilst cooking the dinner! As for the sculpey i used to attempt some modelling years ago but when i moved in my present house i looked at all my models and thought nah dont need them and subsequently threw them all away! Thanx for the continued support ill be checking up on you later so hope there are some updates

    p sage I understand totally what you are saying about understanding your subject from the inside out i think this works for everything you look at really at the moment most of the time i dont really "see" in that artistic way so i am desperately trying to get the hang of it. I have always loved portrait work so i think i may have to start learning the basics of the head. As for the Betty Edwards book i have finished it now so any recommendations for new reading material would be greatly recieved.

    danlucas Hey Dan thanx for dropping by i appreciate your words as i really like your stuff i delved into a little Da Vinci i love his sketching style

    Ok coupla things
    1 I-Pod on black paper turned out real naff
    2 Coupla portraits top one on the page is from a William Whitaker painting (how talented is that guy?) bottom one was from a Sargent that i studied then attempted to recreate without looking at it which shows!
    3 Another William Whitaker trying to sort out my rendering skills on paper this one looks quite nice to me but i have had to wangle the levels loads to be able to see most of this(for instance there is some quite subtle shading round the nose area which just doesnt show on the scan? maybe i just need to press harder with me pencils)
    Anyhows i am rabbiting on now too much coffee i think

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    Hey dude, thanks for checking out my SB!
    Your showing some really good progress yourself.

    One thing thou, I think you need to be even more careful when you do the Bargue plates. I can already see angles that are off. Ive never done em myself, but everyone says that its of highest importance to get it perfect from the start.
    Id like to try a Bargue myself someday, just need to find the time..

    Keep it up!

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    Hi there,
    These are looking quite good, but I noticed that perspective seems to be kind of a issue in some of those still lifes and the ipod. You have to work on these basics now, before you get into too much detail with other stuff. Perspective anatomy studies from real life if possible and a lot of sketching are probably the way to go for now. Keep it up though, the last portrait looks really nice, and I'd love to see it finished with some more knowledge on facial planes etc.

    Cheers

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    Man, you are improving a lot! Keep up the great work.

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    I agree with what Janos said. Perspective is important to get right when drawing from a still life image. If you don't have perspective right, the drawing will always look off. Good effort on the iPod though, the shading is good.

    I myself am going back to the basics, sketching and practicing body form and movement. I try to do a still life everyday though because that sharpens your visual ability, and hand eye coordination.

    Nice work on the Bargue studies. It would be nice to see the planes a little clearer, but for the overall you did a nice job.

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    Hey Glenn how's it going. Nice update. Your last William Whitaker study is...WooHoo .....really good. I guess you can't go wrong picking a living master to study. You really have done well and I think you should carry on with it and others. The second Whitaker study has good rendering and the Sargent from imagination looks like the features are in the right place. I think you captured the beveled edge of the ipod with is good. Well done.

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    I see some good studies in here. I like the Bargue study and the still life pieces (even though the perspective in some of them are a bit off as Jason pointed out). But I can clearly see improvement here, that's great.

    I would like to see some more anatomy studies. I suggest you should try to get Bridgman's Constructive Anatomy if you haven't already. Really good book (but sometimes quite hard to understand if you ask me ). And also, have you tried the 30 sec figure drawing at www.posemaniacs.com ? If not, check it out!

    Thanks for stopping by my sketchbook btw, appreciate that.

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    Really GREAT studies, latigid! I like your pourtrait drawings...nice.... And to your perspective studies I recommend DVDs of Scott Robertson from Gnomon Workshop, they are contain all that you need to know about perspective and shading...
    All the best!!!

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    great works in here i like that you're not afraid to try different mediums & your studies show a lot of improvement the old man looks great, his ear's a little high & big as well, and the latest studies look really good, i think the jaw is a bit long on your side profiles, just watch out for those

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    The old man's eyes are too close together and be very careful when using chalk...it's very powerful, especially against that black background. Keep up the life studies and try using mediums other than just pencil. Charcoal and conte will help big time. They require patience and control. There seems to be a fair amount of line variation in the application of your lines, this is very good since you don't want a thing to simply have the a line around the whole thing that is of the same thickness.

    Rock on!!!!!

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    Have only known about Whitaker for a little while, but that guy is a genuine modern day master... so good call on the study. I think those studies will really help you.

    As far as other books, two words. Bridge Mang

    Well, not really two words. Three words. George B. Bridgman.

    Constructive Anatomy is supposed to be his best. I'm finding I'm improving faster studying his stuff than any other book to date. Highly recommended.

    Keep drawing from life, too.

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    Nice work so far, just keep it going!

    I do not see a lot of construction lines in your drawing, maybe you erase them ? I think it is really important to start from the general stuffs and go more into details after. This way nothing will be off and your drawing will be consistent.

    Do you know the Sheldon approach to figure drawing ?
    1) Gesture (Rythm)
    2) Construction (Cubes, spheres, cylinders)
    3) Anatomy (Details)
    4) Technique (Ink,watercolor, ...)

    Hope this helps in someway...

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    Smile

    Hey Glenn just popping in to check up on you. I hope all is well with you and that the lack of posts is due to a lack of time, which is due to the amount of drawing you've been doing. I know it can be hard work keeping up with it all. Try to post something soon so we know you're still there!

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    wow great gallery i like the classic (like classisim) feeling on them with those faceexrepssions that look like michelangelos sculpute-work.

    i have a quick question. the study of Bargue's Piccy youre doing there. i googled it but i couldnt find that picture do you scanned it from a book or something ? i really would like to try the same thing as you do. looks very promising to learn how to archive "likeness" for example for portrait drawing of mastercopies.

    i wish i could give you a advice, but your stuff is just great am im too bad^^ so maybe you could give me one or 2 advices on my stuff

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    krel Janos Enydimon danlucas Spaggen NewmanD miycko Peetaer p sage DiR3Kt Qikalain Marian Rowling Thank you all for the kind words and advice sorry for not replying til now had the whole family ill in succession so either been ill or been taking care of the ill! If snot was an art medium i would be selling it worldwide now! Oh and thanx Marian for popping in and checking up on me means alot as you know.

    Ok found it really hard to pick up the pencil again for some reason so im just UL what i have done to try and get my head back into the swing some heads from memory to see if any info is sinking in and some studies in there from Loomis because i realised its not sinking in.

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    Hey Glenn I'm glad to hear you and your family are feeling better. It's good to have you back and well done for drawing even though you're not feeling like it. It's hard enough at the moment to keep it up without being ill so it shows great strength. Hoping to see more soon. Take care.

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    Hey mate I'm in the same boat with you I'm 27 and have a daughter and somehow with the chaos within my life I try to become a concept artist
    the road is long and hard but the goal at the end of it is reachable.
    your progress is great seems like you got all the right books for studies, bridgeman, Andrew Loomis, Hogarth. keep it up!
    see you soon

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    Was wondering where you went. That sounds pretty crappy.

    But now that you're back, keep studying! You're getting better.

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    hey latigid nice sb. im looking forward to see where u take this but ur sketching is very tonal and u have a sensitive line.. i believe in u

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