Darrel Tank's method

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    Thumbs up Darrel Tank's method

    Not sure if anyone has heard of him, but visit his portraits here: http://www.fivepencilmethod.com/port...-portrait.html

    And his students' portraits here:
    http://www.fivepencilmethod.com/student-work

    Look at how realistic his shading / rendering is.
    You would have thought he uses blending with his fingers or some tortillon but he didn't (according to his vids).

    Is this some sort of normal blending, only that it's done skillfully?

    You would think it's digital art if nobody tells you it's done by pencil alone. I know Rembrandt would be shocked if he sees this.

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    I don't see any personality in there. There are works of seven students but all look the same. You could run a photoshop filter on some bad black&white portrait photo, put in that gallery and nobody would notice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farvus View Post
    I don't see any personality in there. There are works of seven students but all look the same. You could run a photoshop filter on some bad black&white portrait photo, put in that gallery and nobody would notice.
    Wet blanket, sir?

    Aaaaanyway, back on topic, my guess would be a base tone rubbed in with a towl or brush, and then worked upon with different pencils and different erasers to get the exact tones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farvus View Post
    I don't see any personality in there. There are works of seven students but all look the same. You could run a photoshop filter on some bad black&white portrait photo, put in that gallery and nobody would notice.
    LOL, yeah, but the thing here is the wonder of this shading that makes the drawing so realistic (without using, er-hem, Photoshop).
    Imagine what someone who can already draw well (like most members here) can do is they know how to incorporate this shading technique into their arsenal.

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    It's photorealistic yes.. but totally not interesting or appealing.
    Check out some Norman Rockwell drawings or paintings and see the difference...

    I'm not disrespecting the artist here but there is far better stuff out there to learn from.

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    xeon - You might want to check out http://www.jdhillberry.com/ if you're interested in the technicalities of this. He has a book out that should serve as a nice introduction:

    http://www.amazon.ca/Drawing-Realist.../dp/0891348689

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeon_OND
    Look at how realistic his shading / rendering is.
    "Realistic" is a relative term, not an absolute one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeon_OND
    You would have thought he uses blending with his fingers or some tortillon but he didn't (according to his vids).

    Is this some sort of normal blending, only that it's done skillfully?
    Yes, just plain old pencil rendering. No secret besides practice, patience, and time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeon_OND
    You would think it's digital art if nobody tells you it's done by pencil alone.
    No, I wouldn't. It looks like exactly what it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeon_OND
    I know Rembrandt would be shocked if he sees this.
    How do you know that, exactly?
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeon_OND
    Imagine what someone who can already draw well (like most members here) can do is they know how to incorporate this shading technique into their arsenal.
    You presuppose that most would if they could. But many can and choose not to.


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    I would say more so than his "blending technique" the thing that makes his pencil renderings stand out as impressively realistic is his articulation of textures. If you focus to much on blending, and ESPECIALLY if you use a stump or a cloth to smooth blends you'll destroy any indication of surface texture, and everything except smooth plastic needs some kind of indication of surface texture to be read correctly. In fact 90% of the time I think people over use stumps and chamois, it's just a matter of taste I guess but one of the big beginner pitfalls is to assume that every blend needs to be a flawlessly smooth gradient. Practice drawing gradients just using the varied pressure of your hand holding the pencil. It's harder, but that skill will take you farther than using stumps or blenders ever will. On top of that it helps train a sensitivity in the holding and wielding of the pencil.

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    The graphite portrait of children has a good range of proper values, which to me is a stronger indication of skill than the meticulous rendering. The student work, is far weaker in that regard.

    The problem is the rendering is all that props up the drawings. Strong rendering is great, but a tedious to produce gimmick is still a gimmick. Most artists put detail in the areas that are meant to draw the most focus. It helps to lead the eye, and give the viewer a bit of a visual rest so they don't get overwhelmed with too much visual clutter (in this case not a problem as they are fairly simple with no backgrounds). In the case of the example given, the viewer is left wondering "why is so much attention being given to the sweaters?" and the answer is nothing more than the artist saying "look what I can do!" I find the result is I'm looking at the sweaters as much as the faces. Not in a secondary, "oh, I just noticed this little extra detail" kind of way, but in a more obtrusive distracting way.

    Does this mean I'm tearing down the artist in question? Not really. There's obviously a lot of skill and craftsmanship there, and it's enjoyable enough. It's just shallow. Surface glitter that you enjoy for a moment, then move along. I think it would hold my attention longer if used more sparingly.

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    I think this guy tears himself down in his first video by explaining that his photo replica drawing is more engaging than a sculpture, simply because the children are staring directly at the viewer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeon_OND View Post
    You would have thought he uses blending with his fingers or some tortillon but he didn't (according to his vids).
    I wouldn't think this. It's just a matter of carefully building up layers of graphite until you get the effect you want. If you have a very light hand and a TON of patience you can get very smooth shading without any blending at all.

    Most people don't bother with it because it's tedious as all hell. I have a magazine with a feature on pencil-crayon artists and one guy's artwork took something six months of steady work to do. You can get something looking awfully good if you're careful and have six months to spend on it!

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    First of all, thanks to everyone who reply to this thread, for the insight and points of views which I would otherwise have not even thought of.

    Pardon my late reply as I was kinda busy drawing recently.

    Also, thanks to SquidMonk for the JD Hillberry link! Now, that's the kinda shit I hope to learn one day! Maybe such realistic rendering isn't impressive to fellow artists, but if you're, say, drawing a portrait of some friend or some chick, you can surely impress the skirt / pants / fuck out of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    How do you know that, exactly?
    Because I had a dream some weeks ago about Rembrandt saying to me how ultra-realistic such shading is. He says his works pale in comparison to folks like Darrel and that he would teach me his lighting techniques if I could give him Darrel Tank's URL and e-mail.
    I did, and now I know how to shade and render like Rembrandt.


    Just kidding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeon_OND View Post
    Maybe such realistic rendering isn't impressive to fellow artists, but if you're, say, drawing a portrait of some friend or some chick, you can surely impress the skirt / pants / fuck out of them.
    I think you should strive to make the best work you can, not just make work that's good enough to impress other people but doesn't hold up when put under further scrutiny. That's just my opinion though.

    Darrel Tank doesn't really impress me that much. He does have great rendering skills, but the portraits don't hold my interest at all. Rather than capturing their emotion or the person, like all the great portrait painters, he just draws what's on the surface without much feeling. It comes off looking bland. I don't mean to put him down though, he is skillful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeon_OND View Post
    Maybe such realistic rendering isn't impressive to fellow artists, but if you're, say, drawing a portrait of some friend or some chick, you can surely impress the skirt / pants / fuck out of them.
    The only problem with this reasoning is that you'll be spending more time with the drawing board than you will be with the girl. But try it out for yourself. Only you can say whether the time spent is worth it to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vineris View Post
    The only problem with this reasoning is that you'll be spending more time with the drawing board than you will be with the girl. But try it out for yourself. Only you can say whether the time spent is worth it to you.
    LOL, thanks for replying, but if you could create a super-realistic portrait and frame it in your house, then u can look at it for as long as you want, whenever and wherever.

    Seriously, though, Darrel's DVDs are out and I'm gonna give it a try since it's still pretty affordable, but I won't get it so soon, though. Maybe in the future.

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    Rembrandt would facepalm at this.



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    (not really)

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    You might get more out of other books before going into something like that.

    Then again I personally liked Ryder's book http://www.tonyryder.com/

    I just think you should explore accuracy for different reasons....

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    'daddy when I grow up I want to be a camera!'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crass View Post
    Rembrandt would facepalm at this.
    Darrel Tank's method

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    You should concentrate on planes and values instead I think. The artist you linked makes works that are flat as a runway. They're grey blobs. Once you understand planes and values more and more, your appreciation for the artist you linked will go down and your appreciation for other artists will go up.

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    Just curious, how much cash do these organic cameras make for themselves?

    I mean their only use is to teach other people to be organic cameras too! the art isn't provocative enough to be fineart that sells well, and it doesn't have any creative merit so there goes the commercial industries idea!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crass View Post
    Rembrandt would facepalm at this.
    Of course he wouldn't. The old masters were all humble folks and always willing to keep an open mind. Maybe Rembrandt would be more than happy to invite Darrel for tea and exchange techniques. LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    You might get more out of other books before going into something like that.Then again I personally liked Ryder's book http://www.tonyryder.com/
    Fuck that, I say! Thanks for the holy link! Ryder's drawings and paintings on his website is really realistic and two notches above Darrel's! Maybe it's due to the facial expressions on his drawings that makes it come alive. I must check out this book in the far future once I've gotten past struggling with the basics (accuracy, like you said) Oh yeah......self portraits = fucking shit

    Quote Originally Posted by drd View Post
    Darrel Tank's method
    I chocked with laughter when I saw this LOL. I never knew they have "face-palms" gesture in those olden days. I thought face-palm is a modern gesture made popular by American media.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaycy is tanning
    You should concentrate on planes and values instead I think. The artist you linked makes works that are flat as a runway. They're grey blobs. Once you understand planes and values more and more, your appreciation for the artist you linked will go down and your appreciation for other artists will go up.
    At my level, the only type of drawing I can appreciate now is photo-realistic drawings. I know it sounds very amateurish, but I just get so "WHOA!!!" by those. I don't find the old masters' works photo-realistic, so I've never give a darn to those. I hope one day I'll be able to appreciate them!

    Maybe I'm too obsessed with photo-realistic stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muz View Post
    'daddy when I grow up I want to be a camera!' Just curious, how much cash do these organic cameras make for themselves?
    I think it's good business, and I know a lot of people like me would pay $$$ just to go to listen to him talk. But after reading opinions here, well.....

    I mean their only use is to teach other people to be organic cameras too! the art isn't provocative enough to be fineart that sells well, and it doesn't have any creative merit so there goes the commercial industries idea!
    I remember there's a famous quote around here by Elwell, which goes "You're an artist, not a meat camera".

    The position is different for beginners. My motto is : If you draw from life and cannot produce an accurate (or even, exact) copy, then you did the drawing wrongly.

    It's after one has mastered drawing and painting, then only can one change his motto to "You're an artist, not a meat camera".

    A novice who deliberately do not draw exactly what he sees, and instead add in his own "creativity", is just making excuses because he can't produce an accurate copy.

    Umm......that's what I feel, don't get offended.

    Last edited by Xeon_OND; October 11th, 2009 at 11:13 AM.
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    Maybe I'm too obsessed with photo-realistic stuff.
    yep

    Copying photos is easy.... you think your self portraits are bad, try drawing a face from imagination.

    When i was first starting out i NEVER had the urge to be able to copy drawings photo realisticly. It's a really strange goal....

    Its like wanting to be the fastest guitar player in the world? Who gives a crap if all it sounds like is a bee buzzing because you can strum so fast. The art is in the idea displayed by technique, not the technique itself.

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  41. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muz View Post
    Copying photos is easy....
    You're confusing easy with simple. They're not the same thing. For instance, tightrope walking is incredibly simple: you just put one foot in front of the other and make sure you don't fall off. I don't think anybody would describe it as easy, though. Drawing an exact copy of anything, be it from life, a photo, or another drawing, is also very simple: try to put down lines/values/colors that exactly match what you are seeing, and correct any that don't. But obviously, that doesn't make it easy, or everyone would be able to do it with minimal instruction. Whether it's a worthwhile or desirable objective is an other question entirely.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Muz View Post
    yep

    Copying photos is easy.... you think your self portraits are bad, try drawing a face from imagination.

    When i was first starting out i NEVER had the urge to be able to copy drawings photo realisticly. It's a really strange goal...
    Actually, I'm quite surprised you said that. For me, I get worried and panicky if my drawing doesn't turn out to be accurate as the subject itself. It's an urge for me indeed.

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    Ahh Elwell, you laid it out man, good job, read that shit people.

    You say he doesn't blend, but in his hair tutorial, he uses a brush, which is just a cleaner finger...which leads me on to my next thing.

    Everything from the link posted is low res crap. These pictures would look a lot different in real life. You would see the pencil work. The thing is, these compressed videos and small ass compressed pictures are giving you the illusion that they have been blended a lot more than they actually have.

    We are on the internet....

    that is all I can say for now...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shatterdome View Post
    Everything from the link posted is low res crap. These pictures would look a lot different in real life. You would see the pencil work. The thing is, these compressed videos and small ass compressed pictures are giving you the illus
    Why didn't I think of that?! Shit you, you really shattered my bubbles.
    Now I gotta get down to earth and return to drawing. Thanks.

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    Allow me to post another vid that will impress the skirts off you guys:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/eclectic...t?blend=1&ob=4

    Look at how he draws that Michaelangelo huge painting with chalk. Making such kinda shit is hard as hell, and making a huge version of it is near god-level. Your eyes gotta be very good to constantly see whether the proportion is correct.

    This guy also has good vids that shows tips for beginners.

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    Well, he's good at what he does. It still doesn't mean he can actually draw though.

    I've seen painters who can paint very realistic from life. Put them in a dark room and they're lost since you took away their reference. They never learned the ability to put down on paper what's in their mind.

    He is good at what he does however, I'm not going to deny that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeon_OND View Post
    Allow me to post another vid that will impress the skirts off you guys:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/eclectic...t?blend=1&ob=4

    Look at how he draws that Michaelangelo huge painting with chalk. Making such kinda shit is hard as hell, and making a huge version of it is near god-level. Your eyes gotta be very good to constantly see whether the proportion is correct.

    This guy also has good vids that shows tips for beginners.
    Yea he's good at doing chalk drawings, you're right.

    Would you please stop telling us what's going to impress us though? I think we know what will or will not impress us.

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