UPDATED 09/24- important question for all current & upcoming art students - Page 7

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View Poll Results: Would you take a program like described in the thread instead of private art school?

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  • yes, absolutely

    262 40.18%
  • no way jose

    12 1.84%
  • yes if there was a degree

    73 11.20%
  • yes if there was a way to study in person with instructors during the program

    98 15.03%
  • yes if there was a way I could study at the conceptart.org atelier at the same time and get financial aid for both

    98 15.03%
  • no, i prefer to continue with going to a private school to get 30 percent of my art education at full price

    9 1.38%
  • Yes, but only if I could earn a scholarship

    100 15.34%
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  1. #181
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    Didn't really read any posts but just my 2c.

    I don't really care if the bulk of my studies are from online or books/dvds, but I think that at least an in-person portfolio review or end of class review would be great. It would be ideal to have a course or two that run simultaneously on site, and I don't care about the living situation, as long as I can interact with instructors and students.

    Incoming ridiculous analogy: It's like poker. Yeah online poker is pretty much the same thing, but being in the poker room at a casino with real folks, cards in hand, and a change of scenery makes ALL the difference. The reason why I don't mind some classes being online is because if they are with top industry folks its like playing online poker with Doyle Brunson, Phil Ivey, etc... - but still there's something about being there in person for the experience that is very hard to replicate with online stuff. I think it at least needs to play a small role even if it's just a 2 or 3 week semester with a few classes on site.

    Money is unfortunately the #1 issue, FA & scholarships would be nice.

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  3. #182
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    I'm not actually an art student but I found this really interesting. I assume you're targeting this at people who already have the tools, assets, time, and training--if not the skill--to compete for the scholarships. The financial aid also sounds really nice, given the apocryphal starving artist.

    If you mean this to replace another form of art education, a degree is a must. You do give your students the opportunity to become known through your "famous European city" gallery, but those who don't immediately shine would want the guarantee of a degree, as well as the record of having gotten it from something attached to such a great fucking community of professionals.

    The on-site component is nothing but a plus.

    I think, however, this won't replace primary art education, but serve as a supplement or something really ambitious artists graduate into. I'm 17 years old, and I can baldly state that even with the financial aid, I will not be able to use your program to my benefit in a way that will exceed traditional education--if I'm a new art student. For all the old hands and semi-professionals, what you're creating, educationally, is a great thing.

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  5. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTown View Post
    Online education is the key to the future education as illustrated by MIT putting all their class information online FOR FREE.
    I think this is misleading. MIT is technical, pure science. Basically, just read read read & memorize. Art instruction & technique is a whole different thing altogether. Face to face contact is a must.

    Now if MB wants to teach an ART History course, then I would say online is the way to go. But for the rest, no.

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  6. #184
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    Jason,

    I am currently attending Academy of Art (in san francisco) online, and though I think I have somewhat of an uncommon situation, it may be something to consider.

    Working for Sikorsky places me under the umbrella of United Technologies Corporation, which offers an excellent 100% paid tuition program. This is contigent on the grades I maintain, the school being Regionally Accredited, and a degree bearing class (though, FINISHING the degree program is not required, just class by class). I know that many other companies offer similar programs, just UTC alone with it's subsidiaries covers an incredible amount of employees, many of whom take atvantage of the program.

    All that being said, the degree is the catcher. Not because it's a golden ticket, but because it's the contigency upon which an employer reimburses tuition.

    As far as the program, from the little you have described it as, it sounds great. Especially workshop tuition with travel and lodging included in the tuition. This simplifies the process significantly and provides a much more accessible opportunity for online students to attend key live classes.

    The industry exposure also sounds great, but the advertisement as instant fame is absurd. I'd also be interested in having the 30% comment quantified. What particularly is taught that the majority of private schools do not teach? I am sure that many art schools leave graduates ill-prepared for the industry, but thus far I have been impressed with my school's material and instructors.

    My biggest frustration with my school is their ineptitude in the administrative department. If I am paying $2k per class, why have I found substantial financial and degree related discrepancies every semester? (one administrative error which actually had me blocked from my classes) I say this, because despite the great instructors and course material, the mismanagement of finances and degree bearing information has me looking at other options; and I would hate to see an excellent program like the one you are suggesting hit the same snags and lose interest because it simply did not support the students logistically.

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  7. #185
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    One of the benefitials of MB having a cheaper art-class could be doing work for the industry that the students could do.
    I have no idea how this works with the Atelier right now, and of course it would be completely dependant on the level of skill the students had, but part of the "cut in tuition-costs" could be covered by having the Students do work for MB/CA/school.

    As an example-
    company A wishes to get conceptuals for characters of game X they are proposing.
    They also wish to get pitch-illustrations for named game X.

    As part of the later part of the education (such as finals, and/or final year project) the students does this job for Company A.
    MB/CA/School get cash from Company A and the Tuition could get pinned down somewhat...


    It would still not solve my own financial problem but these sort of things could be worth trying out as an option Jason.

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  8. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by GriNGo View Post
    I think this is misleading. MIT is technical, pure science. Basically, just read read read & memorize. Art instruction & technique is a whole different thing altogether. Face to face contact is a must.

    Now if MB wants to teach an ART History course, then I would say online is the way to go. But for the rest, no.
    sorry mate, MIT is definitely not read read & memorize. even engineering graduates are heading management post and taking up entrepreneurial endeavor and have better business sense than a lot of social science and arts graduates including MBA courses.

    same course offered by different institution could vary tremendously, depends a lot on the people who are running the course. i was an architecture student in uk for 8 years, had a german course mate who had been trained in the same degree in germany but under apprenticeship and when she join in the programme, she had to start from scratch (year 1), no credit transfer cos her pass training was considered an entirely different vocation!!

    and when i applied for post-graduate in the US (that's supposedly very different from the uk programmes), harvard's graduate school of design recognized half of their master's taught course's credit being covered by my second bachelor degree (and strong recommendation letter from my dean helps too). so the moral of the story is that, there's no fix rule on what course should take what form of training or education model, granted, different teaching methods or teacher will yield different results but most of what people are getting from their degree or certificate/ diplomas depend a lot on what the individual student wants (weather consciously or not)!

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  9. #187
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    As dope as it sounds ... I still voted no on account of not enough face-to-face interaction. For me, interaction with my teachers and fellow students is a big reason to go to school. Also, having an actual physical place to come every day, is important to me.
    Furthermore ... universities are free of charge where I live, so it can't really compete in that respect either.

    I mean, it sounds like a dream. But ... more of a dream than a realistic option at this point.

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  10. #188
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    Yes please. We need more educational options that are designed specifically for actually preparing us in the best way possible to reach our potential. Too many systems and schools fall short.

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  11. #189
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    I just wanted some clarification on the 30% of my education. Yeah they maybe teach me the techniques and provide the information I need to grow, but that other 70 % is me busting my ass to actually learn what I was taught.

    So if you're going to give me a full 1:1 education to money your instructors are going to assign work for me to do that I should be doing for myself.

    I'm all for it, I wouldn't get in with the skills I have now, but down the line I would love to, 10-12,000 per year would be rad, and if you were going to throw in a workshop that would be killer.

    A degree is just a fancy piece of paper.

    For financial aid as long as you're able to accept CalGrants, BOG waivers or the Stanford Loans I'd be down.

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  12. #190
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    MIT is a multi-billion dollar institution. Putting up their classes for free is great. For those that think we should do that, please forward me a check for six billion dollars and we can put out all education we do for free from now until the year 2256.

    That being said, We are currently planning the largest scholarship program of any art school out there. It is my hope anyway...will see how it goes as time goes on...but those who are of the highest skill and biggest need should have a way. Merit is key. So are life circumstances.

    Best,


    Jason



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  14. #191
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    Yes, I was in SF. Yes that was me. And that "dood" is one of the leading facebook and social game developers on earth.

    Anyway...carry on. Please.

    We will have some more info soon. For now this discussion has been really enlightening and we will be sure to address questions when we do the full roll out of the program. Much of the issues being raised are already solved. Like when people said I couldn't stop the piracy on ca and told them it was solved. That's done. Now this is being solved. Looking forward to seeing what the future brings.


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  16. #192
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    Do you plan on doing smaller courses? Imaginism Studios online school, Schoolism.com, does 9 weeks courses, each week with one assignment and after each assignment, the teacher draws or paints on top of the work done, explaining to the students where they went wrong and where they went right.

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  17. #193
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  18. #194
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    After going to one of the colleges listed in that private schools sentence for going on four years, I have to say, things like this and Animation Mentor look like better and better ideas in hindsight. Not that I don't feel like going to a traditional school is a bad idea. You are getting that big "I went to ______" sticker to put on your resume. And the social aspect of going to college is something I believe to be incredibly important, especially if you're straight out of high school. But for someone who can't get enough financial aid to go to a private school, or just doesn't feel like being up to $160,000 in debt when they graduate, this sounds like a godsend.

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  19. #195
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    instead of an art school? no. ive learned more in my first three weeks than i have in three years of my life, and i dont think that anything can really substitute an in person experience. its not just about what youre being taught (and, as ive said, ive learned a lot) but its also about the interaction between people, seeing what others are doing in real time and learning from it. i *love* being on campus and talking to people because everyone has a completely different perspective but is absolutely devoted to what they are doing. part of it is that i do want a little piece of paper that says "hey, this chick here has a degree from an art school"

    in addition to art school? yes. i dont think you can ever finish learning, and im sure that i would learn things here that i would not learn in school. the internet thing is iffy though, i really would need more info about how its run before i commit to anything.

    if i had voted (which i did not) i would vote "no. i prefer to get '30%' of the education at 'full' price" however, i would seriously consider taking it in addition to school - especially if it had real classes during the summer, gave me a real degree, and offered scholarships/financial aid.

    [edit] im at MICA btw. so far i have had none of the problems traditionally associated with art schools (preference in style, etc.)

    Last edited by lady nerevar; September 24th, 2009 at 05:35 PM.
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  20. #196
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    the options and the chance to work with and be taught by some of the best is probably something that no student can not want or it least not dream of having. my only query is im currently studying and i think that the most beneficial part of being on a campus is that interaction with other peers studying the same etc, to compete with an share ideas, not that this isnt possible online, but you could easily become trapped in your house working online and failing to make a social life, which as far as im learning is big part of getting jobs, as the saying goes "its not what you know, but who you know" the international oppertunities this would open up would be immense but would be no good if you couldnt actually socialise or talk to clients etc. video classrooms would be interesting.

    i think really its a great idea to help the growth of artists across the world, my only concern is the human interaction part, i think it is needed at least to some point.

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  21. #197
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    Wow, I was looking for something like this when I was looking for schools lol. Now, I'm working toward my art degree over at a community college here in town so that I can transfer over to UT in the next year or so. Although if you guys can pull it off, then go for it! The only drawback, as the person before me mentioned, would be the lack of human interaction that is common with online schooling.

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  22. #198
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    I've had this account for years and regularly read the conceptart.org newsletter/emails but never post here or anything... this place looks really nice though, I think I'll hang around here more often.

    On topic, I'm a painting student at a private atelier in Mexico. I think this is the best option for me at the moment. I chose to not go to art school because, at least here, art schools don't really teach figurative painting or composition. Instead they write essays about Warhol and discuss hermeneutics. And at my atelier I'm learning exactly what I want to learn, realism with an impressionist palette (think Sorolla, Zorn, Sargent and the like). And I feel I really need to learn from my teacher as much as possible, he's old and will probably stop teaching soon. And he was a student of a student of Sorolla.

    But if I could complement my education taking courses online and go on a painting trip for a month, for a reasonable price or with the help of an scholarship then yes I'd be all over this. Especially if we're talking about an entire month of painting all day every day with a teacher behind my back saying "you're wrong do it again!" every 20 minutes.

    I don't personally care at all about the degree, but it might be necessary due to paperwork or something. I don't know. I have a friend doing a similar thing in London, she went to study for a month, and I dont think she had any trouble doing paperwork (they dont offer any kind of degree either). But I'd need to ask her.

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  23. #199
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    Offcourse yeah!!

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  24. #200
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    Being able to use FAFSA would be the only factor. That would really effect the decision as far as I'd be concerned.

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  25. #201
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    I'm sorry, but I couldn't find the "FUCK YEAH!!!!!!!" button so I went with the 'yes, Absolutely'

    Honestly I wouldn't be able to afford it as soon as it probably will be coming around but I would be definately hunting for every (legal) opportunity to getting some savings up for this, perhaps take out a loan or something. And of course working my ass off in my free time to perhaps earn my way otherwise. I'd really like to see what kind of class setup (mainly the subject matter and synopsis) there would be and possible instructor lists really... But I'm gonna have to be patient about it.

    I'm gonna have to be serious though, I'm running out of chair's edge to sit on.

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  26. #202
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    If you could attend an online program with direct access to the top professionals from a variety of fields (depending on the area of focus...Fine Art, Animation, Concept Art, Illustration etc...), with each class taught by the very best in that area of expertise and it included opportunities for jobs, ability to expose your work to the top companies, galleries, art directors and the like...as well as had financial aid. If it was half the cost of a private art school like Ringling or Art Center or SCAD, would you do it?

    Online access to such a course would be great, but the f2f mentoring is worth so much more. There is a different feeling that comes across when you are talking directly to a mentor/instructor than through vchat, email, or IM. Regarding tuition: I am currently in debt with student loans from my time at the Art Institute of Pittsburgh. I do not feel that my education was worth the money spent, primarily because the instructors were (at the time) not familiar with the state of the video game and entertainment industry. We were taught programs, which artists can do on their own time.

    Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?

    I have a degree and it looks nice. A portfolio should look nicer.

    Would the degree matter if you had considerable scholarships to compete for?

    The competition is ultimately for a job, not a scholarship.

    If that program online had a month long, real world component, where you had the additional option to study during the summers with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you?

    I’d rather study full time with such instructors.

    Would it having access to a real, world class, art gallery in a major European city sway you?

    Sounds great.

    Would having exclusive real world workshops like this http://afriendofyours.com/dallas_2_web.mov also help sway you if your workshop tuition, flight, and hotel was included in the total tuition price each year?

    Reverie was life changing for me. Every time I start to lose focus, even in the slightest bit, I remember what I felt at that workshop and I drive on. If it were included, I’d be on it.

    Would having direct access to major companies and art directors help sway you?

    For sure.

    What if you were a top student and made industry famous overnight when you began your career? Would that help sway you?

    Does that happen? The thought of that is appealing. I have a lot more leveling up to do before I can realistically think about that.

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  28. #203
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    Yes,

    +financial aid, double yes

    +scholarship opportunities, when does it start?

    --------------

    I'm in the middle of my first semester of art school at one of the most highly ranked schools in the country and I am beginning to believe that there is a better way for me (personally) to pursue my art.

    I agree that the personal contact element of learning is incredibly important, so I am excited about the idea of face-to-face workshops as part of the program.

    Jason, we patiently (not) await more info!

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  29. #204
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    My biggest concern over the whole thing would just be what you wind up getting for your money. As it is now, with a traditional school you get a degree, but even then you are not assured any sort of job based on that.

    A "normal" school costs a lot every year, and at least gives you the chance to continue a formal education. Paying half of that without a degree to build on later seems expensive. Which really only leaves the direct access to the top dogs, you normally wouldn't have, which leads me to my next point.

    Lets assume the classes are successful. How much direct exposure are you actually going to be able to provide, when hundreds of other people are taking the same course, looking for the same exposure?

    Like I said, the real power of formal school is that you get a piece of paper that you can build on. Not that it teaches you everything you will ever need to know about art. And without a degree to back it up, I just can't see justifying even half the price. Since this would just be a side note on your resume.

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  30. #205
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    First off, I want to address this comment as it is based on a perspective that has little to do with success in the world of art...almost nothing to do with succcess in the world of art.

    The degree means nothing in all but a few instances, and that does not say that we are not going to seek accreditation because we are right now since some want that, however you could have a degree from each of Harvard, MIT, Princeton, and Yale and still have a portfolio full of uneducated work. Thus, failure. No art career. The document that you hang on a wall to impress gramma or your parents is going to get you very little, if anything in this field.

    Second, we would never put out any program that does not get results. The whole point here is to have a program that yields better results, faster, with higher quality instructors, and far more successful students.

    Given the success of our small concept art atelier already (there is not a better place to learn digital painting anywhere), I think once you all hear what we are doing you will feel like any such concerns are addressed. We are changing the way art is taught for the better and creating opportunity to learn where there was less. If we did not believe we could do that, we would not be doing it.

    Actions speak louder than words right? Well in the case of art school, the portfolio of the students speaks louder than anything else. The degree doesn't mean a thing to 99.99 percent of the people working and dealing with artists or hiring them. It is all about the results.

    More info to come. Plz discuss.



    Jason

    Quote Originally Posted by newbies13 View Post
    My biggest concern over the whole thing would just be what you wind up getting for your money. As it is now, with a traditional school you get a degree, but even then you are not assured any sort of job based on that.

    A "normal" school costs a lot every year, and at least gives you the chance to continue a formal education. Paying half of that without a degree to build on later seems expensive. Which really only leaves the direct access to the top dogs, you normally wouldn't have, which leads me to my next point.

    Lets assume the classes are successful. How much direct exposure are you actually going to be able to provide, when hundreds of other people are taking the same course, looking for the same exposure?

    Like I said, the real power of formal school is that you get a piece of paper that you can build on. Not that it teaches you everything you will ever need to know about art. And without a degree to back it up, I just can't see justifying even half the price. Since this would just be a side note on your resume.


    Last edited by Jason Manley; September 27th, 2009 at 03:19 AM.
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  31. #206
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    Hopefully the information comes quickly because I am currently planning my life around a school that doesn't even exist yet.

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  32. #207
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    1. We are going to have a very considerable scholarship program. Perhaps one of the largest of any school in the field. We are going to have full ride, half, and partial tuition scholarships based on MERIT.

    2. There are multiple real world components being designed around the entire program. This program is being designed by the best of the best. People I idolized when I was learning art, as well as our esteemed peers in the professional world.

    3. It will be a go at your own pace program. You will have to pass very intensive criteria to move forward. We are not going to be churning out students who do not get the information. If you don't get the information, you stay where you are until you do. Some students will graduate early. Others later.

    4. We are including options for transfer students who qualify by portfolio. We do not care if someone got an A from their design class if their portfolio does not show that they know the information in the program. As much as 25 percent of the program can be bypassed if the students already know the info being presented in the first year.

    5. Everyone will get ample time with the instructors. This is not a farm for artists to shell out cash and not get the info they need to succeed. This is the real deal.

    6. We do this because we believe that the art programs around the world are lacking entirely. I can't even hire 99 percent of the instructors teaching the stuff that we do here at MB, from those universities. As the painter Ives Gammel once said, "A teacher can only teach up to the point of their own failure as an artist". We take that line of thought to heart. Only instructors with mastery of a given area of expertise will be teaching those courses.

    7. As liberal Arts and traditional education are respected here, we will have a list of courses that can be taken locally at the community college level (no sense in taking business math/accounting, or english 101 at an expensive art school or university). For those wanting to grow in areas outside of art, we will have plenty of things for you to pursue outside the program as well. There will be required reading (literature) and personal studies as we encourage students to not rely just on us for information. The world is at your fingertips. We will be pointing directions and helping in all areas.

    8. The starting programs are Foundations, Entertainment Design, Representational Painting (traditional and digital), and Illustration. Our foundations program will be the most comprehensive foundations program out there. Once you have such literacy, you can go any direction you choose, whether that be Fine Art, Illustration, Film, Games, Toys, Comics, or any other direction. We believe in creating independent minds, and giving the tools to artists so they can develop their own perspectives, their own visions, and be successful in the field of their choice.


    So thats some info...plz discuss.



    Jason

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  34. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by kvanzant View Post
    Hopefully the information comes quickly because I am currently planning my life around a school that doesn't even exist yet.
    Hang in there. I expect we will begin the program in early summer with a host of things happening before that to prep the students who will be attending.

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  36. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by GriNGo View Post
    I think this is misleading. MIT is technical, pure science. Basically, just read read read & memorize. Art instruction & technique is a whole different thing altogether. Face to face contact is a must.

    Now if MB wants to teach an ART History course, then I would say online is the way to go. But for the rest, no.

    Patience young jedi. I know it is tough to afford education stuff where you live, but you have a chance to have a full ride if you prepare an awesome portfolio. Face to face is important and we have designed the program to help with that matter. I did six years of art school. I am a person who learns by having an instructor show me things...not just by listening. I know many others are the same.

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  38. #210
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    Wow, that was fast!! Thanks Jason. Have you guys put any thought into the GI BILL?

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