UPDATED 09/24- important question for all current & upcoming art students - Page 2

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View Poll Results: Would you take a program like described in the thread instead of private art school?

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  • yes, absolutely

    262 40.18%
  • no way jose

    12 1.84%
  • yes if there was a degree

    73 11.20%
  • yes if there was a way to study in person with instructors during the program

    98 15.03%
  • yes if there was a way I could study at the conceptart.org atelier at the same time and get financial aid for both

    98 15.03%
  • no, i prefer to continue with going to a private school to get 30 percent of my art education at full price

    9 1.38%
  • Yes, but only if I could earn a scholarship

    100 15.34%
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  1. #31
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    YES!!! I am just waiting for the thing to start up. I don't feel a degree would matter as long as we are given the tools and knowledge to succeed. Which I have no doubt we would if the classes are anything like some of your presentations. Financial Aid and GI Bill are big. If you could get these two incorporated that would help the schools success tremendously. Also the part about having a sort of "summer school" with the costs of travel incorporated into the tuition is pure genius.

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  3. #32
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    I've never been so psyched for school.

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  4. #33
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    In a second, a school designed to help me build the foundations i need to actually get a career going and not JUST a degree would be infinitely more valuable.

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  5. #34
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    I voted Yes, but only if I could earn a scholarship.

    I already have a Fine Arts degree from a Liberal Arts school, but what you're describing, Jason, is very enticing. I'm barely scraping by on freelance work at the moment, though, so financial aid would be necessary before I could even consider joining such a program.

    For me, physical contact with instructors is not necessary, as I own a house and have dogs, and can't go running off all the time.

    I guess my ideal set-up for this would be to take one or two classes a semester (or year, depending on how things were structured), assuming I were able to get financial aid. Of course, if you guys are going to be setting this up like a university program, I assume there would be a minimum number of credit hours to be considered a full-time student and be eligible for financial aid?

    Thanks for all the hard work.

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  7. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Manley View Post
    If you could attend an online program with direct access to the top professionals from a variety of fields (depending on the area of focus...Fine Art, Animation, Concept Art, Illustration etc...), with each class taught by the very best in that area of expertise and it included opportunities for jobs, ability to expose your work to the top companies, galleries, art directors and the like...as well as had financial aid. If it was half the cost of a private art school, would you do it?
    yes , "how much you will learn" from any class is the first question when u want to pick up a class

    Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?
    no , degree does not matter to me anyway as for an artist , his portfolio should qualify him for a particular job not a degree .

    Would the degree matter if you had considerable scholarships to compete for?
    a scholarship would actually be the only way i personally could afford any class ( otherwise there is always self learning , internet etc. )

    If that program online had a month long, real world component, where you had the additional option to study during the summers with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you?
    that would be a dream , specially when it will be combined with a scholarship . meeting those crazy pros would be a dream !!

    Would it having access to a real, world class, art gallery in a major European city sway you?
    most definitely

    Would having exclusive real world workshops like this http://afriendofyours.com/dallas_2_web.mov also help sway you if your workshop tuition, flight, and hotel was included in the total tuition price each year?
    that right there would be crazy and the point where i started realizing that you might be messing with our head

    Would having direct access to major companies and art directors help sway you?
    hell yeah , screw the degree

    What if you were a top student and made industry famous overnight when you began your career? Would that help sway you?
    as if one reason was not enough

    if i was to compare between such a course and another private course , the first question would be where would i learn more ?? (this workshop )

    second which one is more affordable (if affordable at all ) ? (this workshop probably only with a scholarship i guess, my country has really much cheaper rates compared to europe , and i cant even afford our rates for now , one of the reasons why i still havent been to any of those workshops before )

    third where do i make better contacts and opportunities ?
    im pretty sure ,here

    these are just honest answers , others may not agree .
    cheers !!

    Last edited by vibhas_virwani; September 22nd, 2009 at 01:49 PM.
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  8. #36
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    I don't care about a degree, but I'm not sure about a purely online programme either.

    What type of programme would this be, focused more on drawing/painting fundamentals or would that already be assumed and the classes would be more about concept design and working in the industry etc? Would it be open to any skill level or would there be a portfolio review?

    I just finished my first term at school (LAAFA) and a few problems I see with this personally are;

    - there wouldn't be any life drawing from a model (something I've found immensely helpful, lots of life drawing was actually one of my main reasons for deciding to go to school in the first place)

    - You wouldn't be able to see the instructors draw. I'm sure the classes will all be high quality videos, either live or recorded, but that isn't quite the same, to me anyway, as being there with the instructor seeing them putting pencil to paper. With video there's always the problem of camera distortion and the fact that you aren't seeing the drawing full size etc. Even without that though, seeing a drawing on a screen and on paper just isn't the same to me.

    - Related to the last one, the instructors wouldn't be able to see your original works as they actually are, nor would they be able to draw on top of them in whatever they were drawn with. Construction problems could be drawn over in photoshop with redline I guess, but rendering/value problems are a little harder. You could always paint over digitally, but it wouldn't teach you how to better use the materials. Seeing the instructors fix my drawings using the same tool as I was is something that really helped me.

    Those last 2 things aren't as important if the classes are going to be purely digital (are they?), but I really feel model time is important.

    This are just my personal opinions after spending a term at school anyway, I hope they help in some way

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  9. #37
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    yes yes, and some more yes!
    Do I smell something hot cooking on conceptart.org?

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  10. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crush View Post
    - there wouldn't be any life drawing from a model (something I've found immensely helpful, lots of life drawing was actually one of my main reasons for deciding to go to school in the first place)
    I think there should be some kind of entry portfolio showing that the student has already done life drawing/painting, and understands it well. That way instructors can rest assured that their students already have some of that out of the way, so other things can be focused on.

    Perhaps "homework" could also be given for people to find a place nearby that give open figure sessions or classes. Yeah, I know there are some people who live away from places like that, but the majority of students probably have some access to something like that.

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  11. #39
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    Do tell about the European placement Jason
    (That will definitely win me over)

    Maybe try London *hint* *hint*?

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  12. #40
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    I would love to join, but fear it would be very expensive... I have looked into online art programs before, all of them were too pricey for me to afford, and often I imagined how cool it would be if ca.org had an online program but my budget is rather small so I doubt I'll be able to sign up.

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  13. #41
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    The private atelier art school I attend is around the same price in tuition as the ConceptArt.org Atelier. In fact, most ateliers are in that price range. Are we talking half that price, or half the price of accredited private art colleges?

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    Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?
    -No. I've been in the business long enough to realize it's the skills you have (the portfolio) not the piece of paper that will get you the job.

    Would the degree matter if you had considerable scholarships to compete for?
    -No...I would like to see assistance based on financial need.

    If that program online had a month long, real world component, where you had the additional option to study during the summers with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you?
    -It would be an added bonus, but I'd like to see this as a separate, optional workshop.


    Would it having access to a real, world class, art gallery in a major European city sway you?
    -Yes.


    Would having exclusive real world workshops like this http://afriendofyours.com/dallas_2_web.mov also help sway you if your workshop tuition, flight, and hotel was included in the total tuition price each year?
    - Sounds expensive, regardless

    Would having direct access to major companies and art directors help sway you?
    Most definitely!

    What if you were a top student and made industry famous overnight when you began your career? Would that help sway you?
    Hehe - umm no? Of course!


    I would love to see the school operate in the same manner as Animation Mentor. I think they have a good setup that could work for conceptart.org.

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  15. #43
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    Ooooh, I would do it, most definitely! I probably CAN'T do it right now because I probably wouldn't even have a proper method of payment...or money to pay with. I'd totally go for the financial aid, as long as the process wasn't a hassle, too. >_< I wouldn't care about a degree, because if someone in a big company actually LIKED what I made, and saw potential and wanted to hire me, that would make me work even harder. ^____^

    Oh yeah, and if it were to be far away, I'd want to be assured that I would be accommodated, and assisted if need be. I get nervous, and can't pretend my visual impairment doesn't concern me sometimes. Heh.

    But even with the long pondering paragraphs, I certainly would go for that! Yeah! I think that "30% of what I'm paying now" thing would work, too. @_@

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  16. #44
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Manley View Post
    If you could attend an online program with direct access to the top professionals from a variety of fields (depending on the area of focus...Fine Art, Animation, Concept Art, Illustration etc...), with each class taught by the very best in that area of expertise and it included opportunities for jobs, ability to expose your work to the top companies, galleries, art directors and the like...as well as had financial aid. If it was half the cost of a private art school, would you do it?
    Yes, most definitely

    Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?
    Yes

    Would the degree matter if you had considerable scholarships to compete for?
    Yes

    If that program online had a month long, real world component, where you had the additional option to study during the summers with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you?
    Sign me up!

    Would it having access to a real, world class, art gallery in a major European city sway you?
    Already sold on this at this point ^_^

    Would having exclusive real world workshops like this http://afriendofyours.com/dallas_2_web.mov also help sway you if your workshop tuition, flight, and hotel was included in the total tuition price each year?
    A million times yes. So awesome, let me count the ways!

    Would having direct access to major companies and art directors help sway you?
    Of course, yes.

    What if you were a top student and made industry famous overnight when you began your career? Would that help sway you?
    Yes, and yes!


    Please vote and discuss. If you have time I would be curious to your thoughts.
    The answer to all is YES, I would most definitely want to participate in something like this--with tears of joy, happiness and thankfulness pouring out of me.
    I can't wait for this to be up and running! Thanks MB & CA!

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  17. #45
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    As someone halfway through traditional art school, I highly doubt I'm going to be able to get the money for something like this anytime soon, but I would personally love to see this happen. The thought of being able to attend more art classes further down the road is a very attractive idea, and if this does happen here at ConceptArt I would love to take some classes when I get the chance to. I know that Bobby Chiu and his gang over at Imaginism have their own online classes and it seems like a lot of people are interested in them and DO take the classes. I really would love to see this happen, it sounds like an amazing opportunity!

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  18. #46
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    I don't really care about accreditation either... I already have a BDes from a four-year program, and now understand just how much having a kick-ass portfolio is more important than my little piece of paper...

    I would totally be down, but I have a similar situation as some others (like Cacodaemonia)... I am married, have a job, house, etc. and therefore an online program would be ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL.. I however wouldn't be able to take part in much of the real world stuff (although workshops might be doable).

    Other commitments would also mean it would be incredibly wonderful to do a part-time course load... again to echo Cacodaemonia, one or two classes per semester would be about my limit, time-wise.

    And, of course, financial aid or scholarships would also be nice, to help pay the bills

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  19. #47
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    ARRGH Double post, my bad

    Last edited by KarylGilbertson; September 22nd, 2009 at 03:18 PM.
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  20. #48
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    thats sound awesome, but it would be really awesome to have the chance of a degree.

    why? because its a requirement if you want to move to another country for job. in reality is just a paper, but its dam important to have one of those for tramits to have the chance
    to work for example in epic games or blizzard.

    but definitly i would gladly take this course i love art and i havent the chance to study in my younghood

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  21. #49
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    I wouldn't be willing to give up the physical community of artists of a traditional art school. Online networking is great and all, but it's not a replacement for the creative cross-pollination of living and working with other artists. The addition of occasional in person meetings, whether in the form of summer classes or briefer workshops would make the program more appealing than other online programs, but wouldn't be sufficient to sell me on the idea.

    Plus I'm already getting instruction from top professionals, and after financial aid, am only paying about half tuition, so I'll stay were I am.

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    I'm from San Francisco, currently developing my painting skills so I can attempt to join the gallery scene and be one of those Juxtapoz artists, haha. No really, it's kind of a goal. At the moment my plan is to attend the Art Center in Pasadena with loans and whatever scholarships, but my basic plan is to just become a better fine art painter.

    If the program you're creating can offer the same quality of teaching as I would get in top art schools at cheaper costs and I'm able to get financial aid for it, then hey, I would love to try it out. Assuming you know, I get all the same benefits, and then some (like whatever perks they offer at those schools). And also be able to make the same amount of connections/contacts as I would at an art school.

    Personally I'm after a mixture of Bouguereau, Caravaggio, Dali, Bosch and Beksinski. And I'm already capable of doing pretty decent studies (or copies) of their work, so if I can learn to fully reach my goal with this program (as in learn to make my own work that would combine all the artists' styles), I wouldn't mind trying it out. Especially if it beats 15k per semester, lol.

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  23. #51
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    Right now this is something I'm dealing with...what do I want to do with me education...should I go into a Atelier...all that sort of stuff

    So lets go through this. First and foremost I pretty much answered absolutely, yes!

    Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?

    I don't even have any degree yet...might maybe by the end of this fall but in all honesty it means nothing to me. A degree is not a free pass into the art industry in anyway shape or form to me...it's just a piece of paper.

    Would the degree matter if you had considerable scholarships to compete for?

    scholarships are nice but they should be given based more on the work you do and how much effort you put into the program. There always has to be a certain criteria that has to be met to get the scholarships.

    If that program online had a month long, real world component, where you had the additional option to study during the summers with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you?


    HELL YES!


    Here is the thing, I had the chance to take some of the earlier classes here that Jason was teaching, color theory, composition, etc...

    Those were the first online classes I really ever took and they were great! Till then I was sorta skeptical on how it would be. However nothing to me beats interacting with people in person. Having that instructor look over your shoulder and speaking face to face. I liked those online classes I really did...but there is still a disconnect and interaction missing there that you can only get in a real classroom...not a virtual classroom. If you provided that option of also the summer program at something like the MB Atelier...you got me hook, line, and sinker!!!!!!! If the atelier was somehow connected also to the online study that would be a win-win. Personally I consider the Atelier still the best option right now. $7,000 per year...that's nothing considering your getting some of the best training from some of the best artists in the industry!

    Would it having access to a real, world class, art gallery in a major European city sway you?

    Ummmmm...how about another HELL YES!

    Would having exclusive real world workshops like this http://afriendofyours.com/dallas_2_web.mov also help sway you if your workshop tuition, flight, and hotel was included in the total tuition price each year?

    0_O.....*faints*

    It sounds great but maybe have that as a option for the students. Unless you could get a awesome discount I could see that hiking up the tuition maybe a bit too much for some that just want to take the classes.

    Would having direct access to major companies and art directors help sway you?

    I think that's a given.

    What if you were a top student and made industry famous overnight when you began your career? Would that help sway you?

    Totally!

    I'm gonna ramble here for a sec, but when it comes most art schools especially here in Tucson I have a deep-seeded hatred for them (I'm looking at you art institute of Tucson!).
    You see it everywhere, people dropping hundreds of thousands of dollars and in the end getting a piece of paper and a truly terrible portfolio and practically no real training in the arts. Last person I talked to that went to that institute, and I mention this all the time, said he was $60,000 in debt from the classes...oh and he was married...and with two kids. Nice huh? I still have no clue why the hell he went there and keep thinking I made one of the best choices just going to the community college here and just going for the associates while taking some spare classes that I knew would help me in the long run.

    I pretty much concluded I will only continue toward my BA if I get a full-pass to Ringling or a couple of the other college but to be fully honest I would still prefer the atelier training. Any of those college are a crop-shoot. I might only get two instructors out of ten that might be good. So that's why I've been seriously eyeballing the ateliers again.

    The training and the education is the most important thing I believe you need besides of course be dedicated to what you do and be persistent. Learning from people who know what they talking about is crucial. There is a huge swamp out there of teachers, especially art teachers that are horrid. Pretty much every Atelier I look at has rock-solid instructors but the MB Atelier is still one of the most unique ones because it offers the training in old masters techniques and also goes into the digital realm, it's a perfect balance and that's why I lean more toward that. What I know is the folks here are serious. If you get this up and running it would be great either way. I say the bigger you go the more exciting it gets as long as you take the right steps in making it a reality.

    my two cents

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    Where can I sign up.

    I'm actually looking into some extra education at an art school and I'm just about to apply.

    I'd rather go through ca.org/massive black online. Since I already have an animation degree I don't need another degree, the actual experience is what I want.

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    It's too bad that I've already got my degree! I would've gone for this in a second. Just so CA.org knows, I paid my tertiary provider for CA.org to teach me and that's BS. If there was a way I could have got a degree through CA I would've been sold. Hope it all goes well!!! The standard of art is gonna go through the roof if you can pull this off

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  26. #54
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    I dont think theres anything wrong with trying to study on a degree course, infact i have nothing against them, even though i myself didnt go for a degree course but instead done a HND art course which is supose to be more geared towards education thats aimed at creating skills and projects that will be benificial towards a particuler chosen career at the end. the only problem however is that the majority of students who do take the effort to actually complete their chosen degree subject whether its art or anything else dont actualy end up following the same career path, infact a lot of students dont even want to, for some reason its been drilled into their minds from a young age that just by getting any kind of degree will be benificial and almost necesary in gaining a great career later, even if its a career that got nothing to do with the chosen degree. Personally i think anyone whos actualy concidering doing any kind of degree course should first take a year or 2 out of education, becouse that time out can realy make a person grow up and help an individual to have a much better idea who they are and what they realy would like to do with their lives.

    So a course of study like this i actualy believe can be a much better idea, on the simple fact that a standard degree education cant often introduce a student to certain business opitunities and friends in the industry which such a program could create, which is sometimes more important than any piece of paper. basicly word of mouth and first hand contacts with certain individuals can often make or break an artist in this industry.

    On the other hand, going to university, moving away from home, and basicly experiencing the whole university way of life can be such a growing experience, which simply can't be achieved any other way, other than living the life. so i think both tuition styles have their pros and cons, so i guess the best way therefore would to do both, first the standard tradition of going to university to basicly enroll a person into the career, where they can experience all kinds of influences both educational and life in general, then later follow the other course of study which would basicly aim towards a career at the end, plus the fact that by the time they have started on the second part of the education experience the student would already know the basics, so the learning experience should actualy be much easier and more benificial.

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  27. #55
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    I've been looking for online accredited programs, which are really hard to find (good quality ones).

    I answered yes with a degree--but financial aid and scholarships is key like everyone said already.


    Would this be an accelerated program? Lots of online schools are "accelerated", you complete the degree in two years time, no 3 month summer breaks, only national and religious holidays.

    Would there be a requirement to come in physically at some point? Quite a few online art programs require coming in at the end of the semester, which makes it quite difficult if you live somewhere else.

    Would there be an acceptance rate, or is it apply and enroll--no portfolio review or etc?

    I think MB/CA has such a massive fan following, thousands would flock to such a program.

    I would love to go to an online school like the one you are proposing :< i wish i wasn't already half way through my degree.

    The perks and benefits far out weigh other alternatives--even without a degree the name would probably carry a reputation itself just for having access to so many vital outlets in the industry.

    "Be either full-assed or no-assed. There is no half assed."

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  28. #56
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    1.- If you could attend an online program with direct access to the top professionals from a variety of fields (depending on the area of focus...Fine Art, Animation, Concept Art, Illustration etc...), with each class taught by the very best in that area of expertise and it included opportunities for jobs, ability to expose your work to the top companies, galleries, art directors and the like...as well as had financial aid. If it was half the cost of a private art school, would you do it?

    Maybe. Because of the online part. I believe in the power and efficiency of face to face training and interaction. The internet still has a lot way to go for this. Also, face to face helps keep the distractions at a minimum, helps organize your time, and personal contact (to make friends/relationships) is harder through the internet. Also, not to mention the possible technical problems that could arise (slow connection speeds, etc).

    2.- Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?

    Yes, because, I'd like to get some sort of written proof (apart from the actual work that is), of how much I rock. And still, for a lot of people, including potential employers, degrees are important.

    3.- Would the degree matter if you had considerable scholarships to compete for?
    Yes, see question #2.

    4.- If that program online had a month long, real world component, where you had the additional option to study during the summers with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you?
    This is interesting, it sounds like the Illustration Academy. So yes, it would be a plus. But where would it be? How much would it cost? (airplane tickets and such). Additional expenses, specially, if has degree-related costs, are troublesome (not mentioning visas and such, which are hard to get by (depending on where this will be located) to third worlders).

    5.- Would it having access to a real, world class, art gallery in a major European city sway you?
    This would be another plus, but most schools already do that (graduation expos, at least in major cities). So this was more of an pre-established expectation, than something totally radical or different.

    6.- Would having exclusive real world workshops like this http://afriendofyours.com/dallas_2_web.mov also help sway you if your workshop tuition, flight, and hotel was included in the total tuition price each year?
    Another plus, but still, expenses can be hefty for only a one week (3-4 days) workshop. I would prefer the month long "workshop" mentioned in question #4. So, no, this wouldn't sway me.

    7.- Would having direct access to major companies and art directors help sway you?
    Not really. Because this isn't a guarantee of anything.

    8.- What if you were a top student and made industry famous overnight when you began your career? Would that help sway you?

    With the powers of promotion that ConceptArt.org has, well yes, it is a definite plus. But I feel this a trick question, designed for us to say "Hell Yes!" Not very related to the actual program. Right now, if I were kick ass (like Randis for example) and posted in the finally finished, the admiration will come by itself, even if I'm a total unknown artist.

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  29. #57
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    if theres one thing i've consistently heard and experienced its that in the commercial arts fields a degree is next to meaningless. i think it'd be great of you guys to provide aid and scholarships, but if that means you had to get accredited and drive up the cost, i'd say don't bother and keep the cost as low as possible. you could always tell folks to apply for grants or something.
    but bottom line, i do more learning at the workshops and with the videos and streaming classes than i'd do in ENTIRE SEMESTERS at art school. (i went to CIA) the benefits of a school through you guys FAR AND AWAY out weigh the costs. when you get this up and running i'll be sure to point every youngster i know right here for an education.

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  30. #58
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    I think your voting system is inadequate. You can't simplify choices like that. There are a ton of factors that go into choosing an education, not just a few bubbles... and you have to pick one bubble that probably doesn't even fully satisfy how you really feel about it.

    You'd have been better off with setting up some kind of survey, as far as compiling results in an effective manner. things like "most important to least important 1-10" kind of stuff would be a far more efficient tool for deciding what means to further the development of your school.

    My experience with art schooling so far has been having no money for a real art school, and not being good enough to get any scholarship money. I was rejected from art school because I was horrible, I worked really hard and passion for what I was doing. I stayed at a terrible state school to get a degree for 30k. And being poor gets you awesome financial aid. Everything I learned I attribute to the many contributors of conceptart.org, conceptart.org workshops/sketchmeets, self discovery through hard work.

    So is the online school worth 15k per year [assuming it's a 4 year program]? Right now the conceptart.org atelier is less than half that amount at 600/mo and you are dealing with real people on a daily basis. It seems like it would be an invaluable resource, to have all these professionals at your fingertips...as undoubtedly they could help you exponentially with professional advice and networking...

    who knows...i just think for marketing research a survey would be a lot better.

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  32. #59
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    This sounds like an awesome idea. The cost would be high for sure, but really I think it would end up being cheaper than most universities and private schools. If you could organize financial aid to some that would be excellent. Im sure making this possible would be quite the headache.
    And one more note, aren't artists who go into teaching supposed to be failures in the real world???

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    Yes, I would like to have the opportunity to study art online. I think this will be a great opportunity for members outside the US or those who can not be physically present to study.

    I am not very particular with having a degree after as I agree that skills and creativity count more than degree.

    One major concern though is time zone this courses are offered and most specially the tuition. Being outside the US and paying the tuition in dollars is expensive. Perhaps if concept art could offer these courses in modules that could be taken independently (not compulsory to move to the next) and with a corresponding minimal tuition (instead of paying for the whole year).

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