UPDATED 09/24- important question for all current & upcoming art students
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View Poll Results: Would you take a program like described in the thread instead of private art school?

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  • yes, absolutely

    262 40.18%
  • no way jose

    12 1.84%
  • yes if there was a degree

    73 11.20%
  • yes if there was a way to study in person with instructors during the program

    98 15.03%
  • yes if there was a way I could study at the conceptart.org atelier at the same time and get financial aid for both

    98 15.03%
  • no, i prefer to continue with going to a private school to get 30 percent of my art education at full price

    9 1.38%
  • Yes, but only if I could earn a scholarship

    100 15.34%
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Thread: UPDATED 09/24- important question for all current & upcoming art students

  1. #1
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    UPDATED 09/24- important question for all current & upcoming art students

    If you could attend an online program with direct access to the top professionals from a variety of fields (depending on the area of focus...Fine Art, Animation, Concept Art, Illustration etc...), with each class taught by the very best in that area of expertise and it included opportunities for jobs, ability to expose your work to the top companies, galleries, art directors and the like...as well as had financial aid. If it was half the cost of a private art school like Ringling or Art Center or SCAD, would you do it?

    Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?

    Would the degree matter if you had considerable scholarships to compete for?

    If that program online had a defined and refined real world component, where you had the additional option to study during set times of year with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you? (imagine the conceptart.org workshops for weeks straight )

    Would it having access to a real, world class, art gallery in a major European city sway you?

    Would having exclusive real world workshops like this http://afriendofyours.com/dallas_2_web.mov also help sway you if your workshop tuition, flight, and hotel was included in the total tuition price each year?

    Would having direct access to major companies and art directors help sway you?

    What if you were a top student and made industry famous overnight when you began your career? Would that help sway you?

    Please vote and discuss. If you have time I would be curious to your thoughts.

    Last edited by Jason Manley; October 24th, 2009 at 07:10 AM.
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    financial aid has WIN written all over it..and so does everything else

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    The answer to all of these would be a big fat yes
    I would've voted Yes, absolutely! if it weren't for the degree problem (read below).

    Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?
    Would the degree matter if you had considerable scholarships to compete for?

    I'm from Iceland and over here the student loan requirements are extremely strict; it's extremely difficult to get a loan for a foreign school that doesn't give out degrees (especially art schools for some reason..). They've been known to accept diploma programs though, but there's a lot of paperwork involved and needed from the school in question to be accepted. So to me, the degree (or some sort of accreditation) is a large factor for me and probably many other non-US residents.

    However scholarships are always great, and they always make people push themselves more to be able to get them, resulting in more improvement and better work.

    If that program online had a month long, real world component, where you had the additional option to study during the summers with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you?

    I'm already swayed
    But seriously, as a student who has experienced both onsite and online school environments full time (Academy of Art University - Illustration Major), an onsite option, even just for a month, would be a huge advantage. It's simply the 'connection' to the real world that makes a whole lot of difference. I've had teachers online who simply felt like teacher 'bots' instead of actual human beings, and then I've had online teachers whom I felt were standing right beside me by giving out audio critiques (instead of written), sharing stories from their life, etc.

    I'm rambling, but my point is that having an onsite option makes the school experience more real.

    Also, the chance of getting to experience art in a major European city is a very interesting choice, however I feel that that particular option should be optional to students, such as the summer classes. I've traveled a lot and as someone tight on money I wouldn't want to have to spend the money to go somewhere I've already been and seen before (I hope this makes sense).

    However, if it were a workshop, that's a whole nother deal. I just wonder how you're going to make the flight costs included in the tuition, because I'm guessing that non-US residents will want to apply as well and depending on their location their flights can cost a whole lot more.

    Just my 2c. Thanks again for all your work and effort making this happen, it's really appreciated!

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    all of the yes options basically

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    Bloody Hell, Yes on all fronts.

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    I'm already studying, and if I wish to study further, a program would be much better for me, especially if I have a job at the same time. Personally, I'm more interested in the knowledge I can gain after I have my degree under my belt. So long as it's as rigorous and insightful as any other class, I'd go for it! =D

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    Hell Yes!

    I'd be there in an instant! ESP if financial aid was offered!

    One question I do have is whether or not the degree would hold any standing, such as a BFA, MFA, or Certification. Will companies acknowledge it?

    LOVE the idea!

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    This would be a dream come true for me as this is my last year in highschool. But unfortunately this would surley be too expensive since I live in Sweden and there aren't many opportunities for things like this here.
    I should've probably picked Yes, if I could get a scholarship but I already clicked Yes, absolutely. :]

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    This would be a dream come true for me as this is my last year in highschool. But unfortunately this would surley be too expensive since I live in Sweden and there aren't many opportunities for things like this here.
    I should've probably picked Yes, if I could get a scholarship but I already clicked Yes, absolutely. :]

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    I'm jealous. I wish something like this was available when I was in art school. How would studio classes like life drawing be tackled in this format? Would students have to find figure drawing sessions in their area?

    I'd say the only real benefit to a traditional brick and mortar school is access to life drawing, and the friendships and connections you make with fellow students. There is something very nice about having a group of peers around you each day. Still, with all of the other downsides to traditional schools (including the high cost compared to what you actually get), I'd easily recommend something like this to new students.

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    Jason... you are the Micheal Moore of the Art World! ;p

    I would love to participate, and I voted "yes if there was a way to study in person with instructors over the summer". I don't care about the degree, but that's just because I already have one. Nowadays for thrid world countries, a solid degree is the only way out, so it might be a plus.
    Also keep in mind a lot of potential foreign students might have visa problems if the institute can't issue a student visa, I20 was it?

    thanks for putting in so much hard work, tho

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    if a degree was tied into the financial aid, accreditation [to get additional aid from the local government- damn bahamas] AND a degree [to appease the parental units], i would tell these other colleges to go fuck themselves and i'd apply in a heartbeat.

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    If i could get a good education trough that, and if can pay for it for reasonable price or get financial aid, that would be something i have always dreamt about. As long as my art gets better, degree is not something which is on my priority list. <.<;

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    i care not about the degree. quite a few have built empires without that fancy document. i do care about getting a solid education from apex industry folk and then applying it to my own work. i've been toying with the prospect of moving to the west coast just to go to the CA atelier for some time - but money has been a very very serious obstacle. if financial aid and a few loans can get me out there, i'm all for it.

    as far as online instruction - it would be an added bonus, if it were to supplement the actual school. but i think that having the instructor (especially since the curriculum is of a visual nature) right there next to you telling you what you're doing right and correcting you when you make mistakes is the best part of the learning process.

    thanks for posting this jason.

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    That sounds just beyond dreamy!

    However, since Eva K and I are fellow natives, I also share her problem. I don't see how I could afford this without loans (even with financial aid) and that probably won't happen if there won't be a degree, like she explained.

    I certainly don't care about getting a fancy degree, it'd just make everything a whole lot easier, I'm afraid.

    But everything else sounds right up my alley!

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    Believe me, all those perks would sway me indefinitely. However, it may be problematic for those of us who are highly kinsethetic, tactile learners. We have to be in the presence, to see, do and feel as we go. Having a place specifically for learning without any home distractions is ideal. The immersion of a college campus and classroom is something I feel I sort of need, at least personally.

    However, I still think it would be worth it,even if it were after finishing private college (VA department is a bonus there) or in a supplementary/part time fashion. Learning from the Pros is no joke.

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    Jason, you have just suggested what I have been dreaming of... What you are doing/hosting/organizing is my MAIN REASON for wanting to move away from Europe... I'll be honest on this; I've looked into a lot of US located specialized Art Schools, including Gnomon and other private schools, but I'm a student, I can't afford 10K on my education alone, that doesn't even include a place to stay and traveling costs, and afterwards I would just be flying back home, with a lot more experience but I would still be in Belgium, where concept artists are an unknown term... If something like this would be just a little closer and just a little less expensive, and at a more convenient timing, I'd sign up RIGHT. NOW.


    Keep it coming Jason!

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    What is this Valhalla of learning that you speak of?

    Seriously though.

    I would very seriously consider this if it were a real option, if it was then remotely viable that i could participate, engage and have the opportunity to learn and study there, i would do everything in my power to do just that.

    It does sound like it may be physically located somewhere far from where i live. That could either be a challenging obstacle or an opportunity for greatness.

    This thing sounds like an all win situation so far.

    Last edited by Liam Harvey; September 22nd, 2009 at 01:25 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AsaB View Post
    That sounds just beyond dreamy!

    However, since Eva K and I are fellow natives, I also share her problem. I don't see how I could afford this without loans (even with financial aid) and that probably won't happen if there won't be a degree, like she explained.

    I certainly don't care about getting a fancy degree, it'd just make everything a whole lot easier, I'm afraid.

    But everything else sounds right up my alley!
    Same problem here Iceland equals stupid paperwork and unfair rules.

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    Personally, I couldn't care less about a degree. I already have my BFA from a state university art program which gave me that piece of paper but failed to provide me with any sort of technical training or direction other telling me that I should get my MFA if I really wanted to go anywhere. I would love to receive focused technical training as well as an orientation to real-world and commercial application.

    Money is the biggest problem for me now and cost of going back to school as well as relocating is a huge hurtle. I'm already in debt with student loans as it is. If I had access to scholarships, that would be huge incentive. Additionally, if a program had a decent professional placement rate as you are describing, that would make taking advantage of financial aid much more justifiable.

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    I'm seriously interested in this program.

    Would it definitely be ready by next fall? For a couple different reasons, the opening date of this program matters to me. I would need to know whether or not it would even be available, before I make a commitment to another school this spring. So, at this point in time, can you guarantee the existence of this program, or is it still up in the air?

    Also, based on all the enthusiastic replies, it sounds as though there might be a lot of competition to get into this. How many "slots" will be open for the full program? I'm curious to know the ratio of students who want in compared to those who will get in, though I suppose you can't predict that as of now. Will we have to submit a portfolio in order to get accepted? How many "full" students are you going to accept at once?

    I don't really care that much about the financial aid part, mainly because the school is affordable to begin with. Also, I don't want the quality of the program to be sacrificed for all of us in order for some people to get scholarships. I suspect there will be enough competition between people who want in that you'll find enough people willing to pay full price.

    Finally, the only thing that concerns me about this is that I keep hearing that it will be your fellow students who teach you the most, and provide you with the most career opportunities through being contacts. While I can see this type of program facilitating communication between teacher and students, how can we create good, easy communication between students?

    Maybe a private forum with video chat just for the "full-time" students to share stuff and learn? I'm sure you guys are figuring it out.



    Anyhow, it's currently between this program and Entertainment Design at Art Center, though I would probably prefer this program if I can actually get more information about it. It's so mysterious right now that I've been leaning towards Art Center for the sake of the fact that it's less nebulous!



    Another question: Will it be more lecture-driven (like the live streaming classes) or will it be more assignment & critique-driven?
    Will the homework load be the same as the homework in a BFA program?

    A note about homework: One of the reasons I would prefer this to be degree program is that it would mean that, being accredited, the homework isn't optional. I think worrying about certain due-dates and grades adds a level of extra pressure that will keep many of us from lapsing into just doing the assignments but not really finishing them in time, or to the degree of polish we might if it was graded.

    Yet another question:
    What skill level will this be for?

    While I have nothing against beginners, but I don't want to be in a class full of them. I was hoping that, based on the caliber of the instructors, that this would be an intermediate to very advanced level course. Yes, I know I still have stuff to learn, that's why I want to possibly continue my education with this program. But I don't want to have my teachers taking up a bunch of time in showing someone how to draw a box in 1-point perspective, or what the definition of value is.

    Maybe a different way to phrase the question would be in whether the teaching level will be at around the level of most of the MB downloads, especially the more advanced ones... These are more at the level I'm looking for.

    Last edited by Zirngibism; September 22nd, 2009 at 01:56 PM.
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    I would definitely go for it. That option wasn't available to me when I went to art school. Complete waste of time and money. There are only really two or three great art schools to consider, the rest just want to rob you. I spent four years in a private art school and most of my progress has largely come from self-study and this community. Seriously.

    With the workshops and now these cool weekend streams (and a lot of hard work) a person can achieve success without going to an expensive private school. You guys are so lucky to have conceptart available as another tool. My advice: stay away from private school.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Manley View Post
    If you could attend an online program with direct access to the top professionals from a variety of fields (depending on the area of focus...Fine Art, Animation, Concept Art, Illustration etc...), with each class taught by the very best in that area of expertise and it included opportunities for jobs, ability to expose your work to the top companies, galleries, art directors and the like...as well as had financial aid. If it was half the cost of a private art school, would you do it?
    Absolutely!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Manley View Post
    Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?
    Results matter to me, not degrees. A program that had accreditation would be nice, but not a must.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Manley View Post
    Would the degree matter if you had considerable scholarships to compete for?
    As long as they were scholarships based on performance and not based on financial need, I would be up for it. You don't know how many scholarships I applied for and didn't get because my parent's made "too much money", only a tiny amount of which ever went to my education.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Manley View Post
    If that program online had a month long, real world component, where you had the additional option to study during the summers with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you?
    To be honest, it'd be neither here nor there for me. I'm an online junkie and world traveller, if my tuition covered the cost of such a meeting no matter where in the world I was located, then I'd be up for something like that. As long as the instructor took a vested interest in me and how I was coming along in my art, I don't care whether it's online or in person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Manley View Post
    Would it having access to a real, world class, art gallery in a major European city sway you?
    Yeah, I think I could deal with that Travel expenses included in tuition? Would the gallery include the work from students of this school?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Manley View Post
    Would having exclusive real world workshops like this http://afriendofyours.com/dallas_2_web.mov also help sway you if your workshop tuition, flight, and hotel was included in the total tuition price each year?
    As long as it could cover my costs no matter where in the world I was located, sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Manley View Post
    Would having direct access to major companies and art directors help sway you?
    I don't think I'm needing much more swaying at this point- icing on the already great cake!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Manley View Post
    What if you were a top student and made industry famous overnight when you began your career? Would that help sway you?
    When can I sign up?

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    I voted:

    yes if there was a way I could study at the conceptart.org atelier at the same time and get financial aid for both


    And please let me explain why (Italics wont go away ?):

    I never had the opportunity to get any form of art-education when I was all alone. Now I have children, which means that regardless of what one might think, art WILL come second. Food for my children just plain will come first.
    If I had no children, I could easily live off of scraps (one or two m&m's a day) just to scrape through and save cash to be able to get an education in arts.

    I might add that the scholarship is an equal option for me, however for me there is a difference (mainly because you didn't spell it out there Jason) and that is: An online education without a degree doesn't feel that interesting. An online education linked to MB/the Ateliér without a degree HELL YEAH!.
    The reputation of MB is enough to make the degree irrelevant. People see my (gathered) skills from that education, along with the knowledge of who(m) stand behind it is enough to give me a serious shot at getting a job in the industry, worldwide.

    So being physically in the Atelier is not really a must, but the education being linked to the Atelier or MB is.

    Some form of monetary solution is also a must. Mainly for the purpose of being able to fully focus on learning. To live and breathe art, to shit art and eat it for lunch, supper and breakfast (second breakfast, munchies, afternoon-sies- art, art and art). To sleep art- and still be able to have food on the table for my children.
    Because that little thing there in the end, is what is the biggest problem.
    It is people who are dependant on me for actual survival.

    Ironically enough, putting food on the table is mostly done with income from art made- commissions and pfreelance-stuff. But to be able to get more work, to earn a living off of it, I would need to improve. To improve I need education and support, and to get education (support is great here at CA) I would need cash...but cash is scarce because I need to improve.

    I don't think that I am alone in this spiral hold-back, but I am sincerely hoping that there would possibly be an opening to solve it one day.

    Might I add that I, too, live outside of the US and whereas I imagine there being equally much talent or possible new masters outside of the US, at least in MY country, the art-schools are a joke... analy-retarded "artists" who decide on their whims whom gets to become a student. Rarely based upon anything else then ass-licking and who has the cash or the "breeding" (i.e. class and background) for it.

    So if you can solve the cash-problem I would be the first to sign up, in fact I already signed up before you asked!


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    Yes on all options.
    Have to think about the degree though, it's hard to get a foreign visa in my country if you're not aiming for a higher degree than you're already have (if you already got a BA, they won't give you visa for a, say, Diploma. Their question is "what for"?)
    I agree with the others that schools are best onsite. It's just different. Though online's okay too since it's cheaper...
    When can we see the fee, schedule, and other list?

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    I just finished a 4 year BFA degree at my local University, and I would still jump into this program in a second.

    In fact, i think i'll start saving.

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  32. #29
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    Honestly? Yes -- if the program became well-known, well-thought-of and prestigious. No if there were no entrance requirements and/or anyone emerged out the other end not very good yet clutching a diploma.

    Part of what you pay for is the prestige buff.

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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  33. #30
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    Yes for sure!
    Altough, obviously would depend on the final cost, dates, details, and opportunities, specially for long-distance-far-away-countries viewers and students.
    But i am sure, in general seems to be a great opportunity.

    Looking forward to hear and read more news about it.

    J.C. Andy

    Facebook
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