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Thread: professional cheaters setting the bar too high

  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by riceface View Post
    why dont i just trace every drawing i do then.. who cares about construction..
    So, why don't you? Seriously, if you think that's all it takes.....


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    Quote Originally Posted by alesoun View Post
    So, why don't you? Seriously, if you think that's all it takes.....
    Indeed, go for it.

    Here are 300 million reference photos.
    http://images.google.co.uk/

    Here's a free painting app.
    http://www.gimp.org/

    Oh look, free 3d software
    http://www.blender.org/
    http://wings3d.com/
    http://sketchup.google.com/

    When you've used all these magic cheats to produce work comparable to Bergkvists sketchiest doodles, be sure and share it.

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    I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR SAY'N BUT I THINK ITS TOTALLY OK I DONT DO IT NOW BECAUSE I WANT TO LEARN RIGHT NOW BUT IN THE PRO WORLD (FROM JUST WHAT I SEE) THE END RESULT IS THE FOCUS . IN MOVIES THEY WANT THINGS TO LOOK REAL . IF YOU DONT HAVE THE EXPERIENCE OF STUDY SUCH AS LIGHTING COMP ANATOMY AN ALL THAT IT WONT MATTER IF YOU TRACED OR PAINTED OVER IT WONT COME OUT RIGHT.BUT USE'N A COMBINATION OF THINGS CAN BRING IDEAS AN IMAGINATION TO LIFE
    AN THANKS FER THE LINKS Flake

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    Quote Originally Posted by riceface View Post
    with 3d so available now its tempting to just cheat and trace it..
    If you can sculpt or 3D model a believable posed figure yourself, you should damn well be able to trace it or do a paint-over without being called a cheater.
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    Quote Originally Posted by riceface View Post
    wow thanks, people seem more up to discussing it there, unlike now, yeah shes a fraud who tries come off as a master painter.. yet its alll good with people..
    It's already been talked about to death. So many professionals have been "exposed" to tracing and painting over things and yeah it sucks to know that a person you looked up to is not as "talented," or more importantly, as honest as you thought they were. However, people shouldn't be eager to dwell on something that came to light two years ago.
    Last edited by JJacks; September 21st, 2009 at 01:04 AM.

  9. #19
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    One big thing you all seem to overlook when this is bought up is that there are times when tracing is almost an absolute necessity in the "professional" world, especially in art meant for tight-time deadlines in advertising.

    Yeah, It would be great to do a perfect rendering from scratch of the Great Cathedral at Pooky-Hooky built in the 13th century, including two blocks of historical buildings on either side, but the article appears in five days, and it damn well better be accurate and instantly recognizable by the third-grade dropouts reading the Washington post and Bizarre News from Supermarket.

    Another area that requires at least some tracing is the motion picture and television promotional industry, especially in the last 40 years. Modern stars all look superficially identical, both male and female (sort of explains why so many GOOD character actors are over fifty, don't it?). Same nose, same lips, same silicon tits, same hairdresser, same oh-so-cool-bad-boy stubble, that they are literally impossible to draw accurately AND recognizably under deadline without at least some help from tracing or projection of some sort.

    If you think I'm exaggerating here, take a quick look through the various threads on this forums that have exhibited portraits/sketches of various people we should be able to recognize, famous and otherwise. Are we all that bad, or is it the fact that it is fucking hard to capture a perfect likeness, period, especially under time constraints?

    Historically accurate renderings of city scenes, important buildings, and famous people done for mass consumer publications are almost certainly traced by extremely skilled artists who COULD do it the "politically correct" way if they had another two days/weeks/months. The trick is to make it look good, accurate, and still be an appealing piece of art that gets the point across.

    One caveat here--this is not to give the impression that EVERY artist working does this. Some have a wonderful knack for accuracy/likeness-capture that makes portraiture and historical art just come to life in a way that seems effortless, but it IS a truly rare skill in the field.

    Use common sense. It helps more than anything in any thing you attempt...and this is coming from somebody fired six times in 18 months and married twice.
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    "enayla's painting are at the top of the food chain.. and she cheats.. so what does that tell young eager artist?"

    That a lot of people have bad taste in art. A lot of tracers just want to make stuff look "real". The problem with tracing is that so much of the image is accidental, but that happens when you draw from life too, if you don't have a clear idea in mind you'll go and trace a lot of that irrelevance. Talking about people who trace the majority of the image not just a few props or bits of background, the only decent one I'm aware of is Robert McGinnis. He makes a lot of adjustments, he's a good designer. Tracing is a craft. It's possible to teach someone to be a good tracer faster than to be a good artist: just teach them a few basic ideas on linear and shape design, give them a few generic composition templates( cresent moon and star, balance of the steelyard, etc), give them a few stock poses and they're off. It's like fast food art. That's setting the bar real low. McDonald's food-preperation workers aren't chefs.
    Last edited by armando; September 21st, 2009 at 12:14 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by riceface View Post
    well even tho this is old news, it was new to me.. one of my idols enayla was caught being a cheater.. and paint over photos or whatever she did..
    Uhmmm...Massive Black paints over 3d. You calling them cheaters too?
    so what does that tell young eager artist?
    Some people like to compete with plastic forks while others compete with machine guns.





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  15. #22
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    I think "tracing" like any other tool will only help you if it helps your work reach a level of perfection you couldn`t physically reach any other way... it`s not a way to "get better easier" and stop studying perspective, foreshortening, anatomy and so on, that would be a bad use of the tool because it will put a limitation to your potential, you`re taking the lazy route.

    I personally don`t find the fun in tracing so I just prefer to draw from imagination or reference, but I have great respect on those artists that use that tool to make incredible things with a realism that would be near impossible to make any other way, like Bergkvist, Tim Bradstreet and others.
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    yeah google sketch is really amaizng.... perfect perspective everytime.. those massive black guys get results anyway they can!

    i can't help but wonder what the future of conceptual art will be... with all these moder tools almost every thing is done for u... with illustudio program having manikans of any conceivable body type that u can pose anyway inside the program.. to the new game AION having sliders for face types that can make almost anyone...

    its only a matter of time b4 some type of character creator becomes its own full blown program.. probably will have every animal also...

    in the future we might all just be placing elements where we want.. with all the perspective and lighting, shadows done for us, and we just paint over it..

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    riceface, have you ever noticed how awful things look when elements are just generated, copied, and pasted? Great drawing and "art-making" ability cannot be mimicked by a program or a shortcut. Your idea of the future is highly unlikely.

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  19. #25
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    We're not forcing you to trace.
    (23:41:52) (ArneLurk) I woner of there are people who have hairy penises

  20. #26
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    Those massive black examples are environment and vehicle designs, not photo tracing examples, or tracings of other people's designs. Illustrations that incorporate 3D are more about showing off prop designs than they are about picture making.

    That idea of a program with premodeled characters can be likened to a synth-keyboard: still gotta be a composer, still gotta be a musician.
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