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September 20th, 2009 #16
I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR SAY'N BUT I THINK ITS TOTALLY OK I DONT DO IT NOW BECAUSE I WANT TO LEARN RIGHT NOW BUT IN THE PRO WORLD (FROM JUST WHAT I SEE) THE END RESULT IS THE FOCUS . IN MOVIES THEY WANT THINGS TO LOOK REAL . IF YOU DONT HAVE THE EXPERIENCE OF STUDY SUCH AS LIGHTING COMP ANATOMY AN ALL THAT IT WONT MATTER IF YOU TRACED OR PAINTED OVER IT WONT COME OUT RIGHT.BUT USE'N A COMBINATION OF THINGS CAN BRING IDEAS AN IMAGINATION TO LIFE
AN THANKS FER THE LINKS Flake
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September 20th, 2009 #18
Last edited by JJacks; September 21st, 2009 at 01:04 AM.
September 21st, 2009 #19
One big thing you all seem to overlook when this is bought up is that there are times when tracing is almost an absolute necessity in the "professional" world, especially in art meant for tight-time deadlines in advertising.
Yeah, It would be great to do a perfect rendering from scratch of the Great Cathedral at Pooky-Hooky built in the 13th century, including two blocks of historical buildings on either side, but the article appears in five days, and it damn well better be accurate and instantly recognizable by the third-grade dropouts reading the Washington post and Bizarre News from Supermarket.
Another area that requires at least some tracing is the motion picture and television promotional industry, especially in the last 40 years. Modern stars all look superficially identical, both male and female (sort of explains why so many GOOD character actors are over fifty, don't it?). Same nose, same lips, same silicon tits, same hairdresser, same oh-so-cool-bad-boy stubble, that they are literally impossible to draw accurately AND recognizably under deadline without at least some help from tracing or projection of some sort.
If you think I'm exaggerating here, take a quick look through the various threads on this forums that have exhibited portraits/sketches of various people we should be able to recognize, famous and otherwise. Are we all that bad, or is it the fact that it is fucking hard to capture a perfect likeness, period, especially under time constraints?
Historically accurate renderings of city scenes, important buildings, and famous people done for mass consumer publications are almost certainly traced by extremely skilled artists who COULD do it the "politically correct" way if they had another two days/weeks/months. The trick is to make it look good, accurate, and still be an appealing piece of art that gets the point across.
One caveat here--this is not to give the impression that EVERY artist working does this. Some have a wonderful knack for accuracy/likeness-capture that makes portraiture and historical art just come to life in a way that seems effortless, but it IS a truly rare skill in the field.
Use common sense. It helps more than anything in any thing you attempt...and this is coming from somebody fired six times in 18 months and married twice.No position or belief, whether religious, political or social, is valid if one has to lie to support it.--Alj Mary
Ironically, the concept of SIMPLICITY is most often misunderstood by simple-minded people. --Alj Mary
September 21st, 2009 #20
"enayla's painting are at the top of the food chain.. and she cheats.. so what does that tell young eager artist?"
That a lot of people have bad taste in art. A lot of tracers just want to make stuff look "real". The problem with tracing is that so much of the image is accidental, but that happens when you draw from life too, if you don't have a clear idea in mind you'll go and trace a lot of that irrelevance. Talking about people who trace the majority of the image not just a few props or bits of background, the only decent one I'm aware of is Robert McGinnis. He makes a lot of adjustments, he's a good designer. Tracing is a craft. It's possible to teach someone to be a good tracer faster than to be a good artist: just teach them a few basic ideas on linear and shape design, give them a few generic composition templates( cresent moon and star, balance of the steelyard, etc), give them a few stock poses and they're off. It's like fast food art. That's setting the bar real low. McDonald's food-preperation workers aren't chefs.
Last edited by armando; September 21st, 2009 at 12:14 AM.Sketchbook
"Beliefs are rules for action"
"Knowledge is proven in action."
"It's use is it's meaning."
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September 21st, 2009 #21
September 21st, 2009 #22
I think "tracing" like any other tool will only help you if it helps your work reach a level of perfection you couldn`t physically reach any other way... it`s not a way to "get better easier" and stop studying perspective, foreshortening, anatomy and so on, that would be a bad use of the tool because it will put a limitation to your potential, you`re taking the lazy route.
I personally don`t find the fun in tracing so I just prefer to draw from imagination or reference, but I have great respect on those artists that use that tool to make incredible things with a realism that would be near impossible to make any other way, like Bergkvist, Tim Bradstreet and others.
September 21st, 2009 #23
yeah google sketch is really amaizng.... perfect perspective everytime.. those massive black guys get results anyway they can!
i can't help but wonder what the future of conceptual art will be... with all these moder tools almost every thing is done for u... with illustudio program having manikans of any conceivable body type that u can pose anyway inside the program.. to the new game AION having sliders for face types that can make almost anyone...
its only a matter of time b4 some type of character creator becomes its own full blown program.. probably will have every animal also...
in the future we might all just be placing elements where we want.. with all the perspective and lighting, shadows done for us, and we just paint over it..
September 21st, 2009 #24
riceface, have you ever noticed how awful things look when elements are just generated, copied, and pasted? Great drawing and "art-making" ability cannot be mimicked by a program or a shortcut. Your idea of the future is highly unlikely.
September 21st, 2009 #25
We're not forcing you to trace.(23:41:52) (ArneLurk) I woner of there are people who have hairy penises
September 21st, 2009 #26
Those massive black examples are environment and vehicle designs, not photo tracing examples, or tracings of other people's designs. Illustrations that incorporate 3D are more about showing off prop designs than they are about picture making.
That idea of a program with premodeled characters can be likened to a synth-keyboard: still gotta be a composer, still gotta be a musician.Sketchbook
"Beliefs are rules for action"
"Knowledge is proven in action."
"It's use is it's meaning."
September 21st, 2009 #27
First of all you should not be judging yourself according to what someone else is doing, its not fair to yourself or anyone else. Art is a problem you have to solve in your own way! As the wise Kungu Panda said: "There is no secret ingredient."
Secondly, paintovers might be frowned upon by the general art community, but for good reason. Tracing is alot like using training wheels, you might not fall over but you will never be able to go as fast as you are capable, you are just limiting yourself. In fact sometimes tracing is smarter and more effective, like comic artists (I want to see you freehand hundreds of panels over and over without going insane). Matt painting is literally painting over another picture and was started as a way of saving millions of dollars instead of building sets on a exotic location.
Thirdly, the reason why the community tells you to use reference is because it gives balance between realism and unique art. Reference is smart to use because its a crutch or safety net that you can fall back on if you ever get stuck, that doesnt mean that you have to be permanently crippled or sulking in the net.
Fourthly, tracing or painting over someone elses work and calling it your own is plagiarism and that IS illegal (but an entirely different question).
So if you want to trace...trace! I wouldn't recommend it but there really isn't any law against it, you'll just be putting yourself in a box that you will hit later.
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong in my views.
Last edited by Ian J; September 21st, 2009 at 03:33 AM.
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September 21st, 2009 #28
It think people who only trace can only do limited things, they're not full time concept artists for a company. They make a few artworks here and there and get paid way too much for them.
The point is, you can't trace and produce fast, the two don't go together, I'm sure many people who only trace don't have a clue how to actually draw and wouldn't last as a real concept artist.
Paintovers are so stupid, even though Painter and Photoshop even promotes that their program can do it, it's lame, it usually looks bad and they'll get busted one day.
Last edited by Kaycy is tanning; September 21st, 2009 at 03:35 AM.
September 21st, 2009 #29
Last edited by Kaycy is tanning; September 21st, 2009 at 03:39 AM.
September 21st, 2009 #30
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