Why do you hate Anime and Manga so?
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  1. #1
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    Why do you hate Anime and Manga so?

    I'm a huge fan of this artform but am just wondering why this forum in particular seems to have this stigma about it? Just from reading various posts people round here seem to be dead against it, even though there's loads of artists on here that seem very inspired by it.

    Couldn't find anything relevant in searches so if this has been discussed before, link me up. Cheers!

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    My common sense is tingling.

    I predict flaming and an eventual lock of this thread.

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    I think you should take a closer look at the threads you're reading. Unless it's a few trolls, chances are people are telling newcomers who seem to be drawing only anime (or any heavily stylized style) that they should be drawing realism also, as a way to learn.

    This forum isn't dead set against anime. There are anime pieces in the ff section (Alien usually posts those, and everyone loves it) every so often, and a few of the pros around here are anime inspired.

    The main "problem" I guess that most people have with anime is that if used exclusively, it hampers learning. There's only just so far you can go in that realm, and it seems that one of the only ways to have it look better or distinctive is to inject varying amounts of realism into it. If cell shaded, chances are newbies aren't thinking aboput form at all, arguably one of the most important aspects of representational art. That's a big thing to miss just because you want to draw large eyes.

    Finally, the attitude of a lot of the new anime artists who come here has a small hand in the some of the attitude they receive; more often than not, they want to draw anime, only anime, and expect us to give them "tips and tricks" on how to improve their "shading" without having to do any work. Some just seem lazy about art, and in a forum where learning and hard work is respected it's not surprising that they might receive a few less-than-flattering messages.

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    me loves anime and manga big time.

    But i hate manga tutorials made by foreigners and 13 years old "Otakus" who call themself Manga-ka.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R a n d i s View Post
    But i hate manga tutorials made by foreigners and 13 years old "Otakus" who call themself Manga-ka.
    Remind me of the flood of this how to draw anime book by a certain US guy. Can't remember his name but I can't believe he can keep producing so many of those books every year... (wait just remember his name when about to post. It's Christopher Hart)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Porg View Post
    Couldn't find anything relevant in searches so if this has been discussed before, link me up. Cheers!
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56594
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=110227
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=83119
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=127946
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=131002
    That's a start, should keep you going for a while...


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    I love anime/manga... and there's tons of truly awesome work & artists out there. The problem here though, is that for every one skilled artist that happens to use anime/manga as their vehicle, there are a buttload of noob-art-wannabees who already think they're hot shit and that willful ignorance is the same as "style".

    It's NOT the genre that's the problem here... it's the hangers-on. A good artist wants to learn and realizes that there is a lot of work involved, regardless of whether they choose anime/manga as their field or not.

    What we don't like is an unskilled artist that isn't interested in learning... they seem to think that there are just a few easily-learned rendering tricks that will suddenly make their clunky Naruto fanartz the most awesomest artz evr... or even WORSE, some seem to think that their clunky Naruto fanartz are ALREADY the most awesomest artz evr... and all that anatomy, perspective, proportion, form, value, color, and practice shit just doesn't apply to them.

    Make sense?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Porg View Post
    Why do you hate Anime and Manga so?
    My parents were killed by Manga in a dark alley in 1938.

    At least Icarus tried!


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    Jason Rainville said it best. ConceptArt doesn't hate anime at all. It's just that learning just from anime is not conducive to improvement as an artist.

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    It's not really the quality of artwork that matters because, hey, they're having fun drawing and painting something so why give a damn? I've had my share of Goku and Pokemon fanart.

    It's really the general perception of the community that makes people hate it. There's always these bad eggs who think they're the hottest shit on the planet for being able to paint Naruto half-naked on a beach and backlashing against anyone who has critiques about it. Then there's that stereotype where people think all Anime fans go around mixing Japanese and English in their normal everyday speech. Combine those together and you will have haters.

    People seem to be fair on CA.org, however, so no problems here generally speaking.

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    Because I can't cope with the sight of androgynous girlmen, nor watch a minute long slow-zoom scene of two of them standing side by side, watching dully into the distance with their empty, doll-like gazes.

    On the other hand, I love Jin-Roh. The most expensive DVD I ever bought

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    It's an attitude not exclusive to Anime/manga. We'd give the same response to kids who are only drawing from Marvel comics, or kids who learn exclusively from drawing Disney cartoons. Really any fan art where the artist isn't pushing themselves to learn the greater lessons beyond their chosen style.

    It's a little like a parrot that has learned to talk. There's a mimicking of many of the elements of speech (or art), but there's not enough real understanding behind it to go very far.

    Last edited by J Wilson; September 16th, 2009 at 02:02 PM. Reason: spellz bad
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    I like anime. I just don't like to draw or trying to learn drawing it, as it's too stylized and i prefer more realism (if that can be a legitimate argument by someone heavily into fiction/fantasy )

    And yes. The same problems exist in comics from other parts of the world, such as marvel. Personally though, i'd say that in anime the problems are more prevalent as the extremeties of the "artform" are so much more obvious (large heads, enormous eyes, etc).

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    I like anime.

    Just not when the style is used as a crutch.

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    Wicked, wicked, wicked!

    Okay, now I understand. It seems that it's an easy and attractive artistic starting block but one that you shouldn't take literally.

    Funny reading into it as I was always taught at uni that you should have a style, which I thought was quite limiting as you're always going to improve.

    Anyway, now I can appreciate it safe in the knowledge that it's an accepted genre [or something - ]

    Nice one, cheers.

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    Becase all the faces look the same.

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    hunchback is offline I disagree! PENIS! TACO! CHEWBACCA!
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    I find ive labeled an anime hater by th group of friends im in, purely because i dont like the hot shits who think they will conquer the world because they can draw dragonballz characters.

    My ex girlfriend decided to do this stating its her thing and shes gonna do it allll the time and start her own company. I pointed out to her that even in her own "style" (anime, furries) she wasnt pushing herself, and that to have a bigger view of world she should actually try other approaches to improve. I of course got beat down on facebook by her girlfriends, (wasnt a pm whoops) for not caring about her passion for art. I laughed in my head knowing i wouldnt be able to change her mind. (ps shes trying out for sheridan) O_O

    anywho, i use to draw manga when i was a kid and I watched pokemon and drew it a lot but i feel its becoming a cliche to a lot of kids up here. Your good if you can draw naruto or a furrie. I am not kidding you, this basically describes in a nut shell what my pre animation class is like here at algonquin.

    I love being different : D

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    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    My parents were killed by Manga in a dark alley in 1938.
    Kev's the goddamn batman! I KNEW IT!

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    My problem with manga is that the very best film of the genre was Akira, which was made, when? in 1985? And it's never been surpassed in all this time. I mean, there's Miyazaki, who's an excellent story teller, but those are more for children. Then there's what's his face who directed Millenium Actress. That one had a good story.Ghost in the Shell was a great, one-time hit, and that Ninja Scroll was fun to watch. But so far as a combination of artistry and storytelling, Akira really takes the cake. And I'm not just talkiing about the action, it's the themes - there's the agony of growing up unloved, the corruption of politics, the mad rush of technology without thought of the consequences, fear of nuclear holocaust in the modern age, wonderment at what the future holds, and if there's any hope. That film handles all these questions superbly, all while expertly editing and pacing the story.

    Everytime I watch something new, I have to ask, what the hell happened? Didn't they watch Akira? Didn't that give them a clue as to what the medium could do? Visually, I think Miyazaki's the only one who's brought it back to that level. When's he going to make a story for an adult audience?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hunchback View Post
    I find ive labeled an anime hater by th group of friends im in, purely because i dont like the hot shits who think they will conquer the world because they can draw dragonballz characters.

    My ex girlfriend decided to do this stating its her thing and shes gonna do it allll the time and start her own company. I pointed out to her that even in her own "style" (anime, furries) she wasnt pushing herself, and that to have a bigger view of world she should actually try other approaches to improve. I of course got beat down on facebook by her girlfriends, (wasnt a pm whoops) for not caring about her passion for art. I laughed in my head knowing i wouldnt be able to change her mind. (ps shes trying out for sheridan) O_O

    anywho, i use to draw manga when i was a kid and I watched pokemon and drew it a lot but i feel its becoming a cliche to a lot of kids up here. Your good if you can draw naruto or a furrie. I am not kidding you, this basically describes in a nut shell what my pre animation class is like here at algonquin.

    I love being different : D
    You should tell her that they flat out don't look at portfolios with manga/anime.

    Also the best manga/anime illustrators have a solid foundation in drawing from life. It's just kids who see the end result and think they started from anime and became amazing that way.

    Last edited by RyerOrdStar; September 16th, 2009 at 12:15 PM.
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    I really enjoy movies like 'Sen to Chihiro no Kamikakushi' or 'Gin-iro no Kami no Agito'. So no hate here.
    It's just that learning the basics of drawing/painting from life will benefit people even if they mainly draw manga style. Many of the 'hate' seems to be directed at people who only draw manga style and think that's the best and only way to go. It could lead to errors that would be avoided with a little life study and might even hold someone back later in his/her career.

    When you can draw from life well it's relatively easy to simplify it to manga/anime style but when you can only draw manga/anime style it's hard to learn to draw/paint from life or in any other style without errors.

    At least, that's how I see things.

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    There seems to be little if any desire to do something unique or creative, and rather just copy a style over and over instead of building and working on their own.

    "The problem with scientific power you've used is it didn't require any discipline to attain it. You read what others had done and you took the next step. You didn't earn the knowledge yourselves, so you don't take the responsibility for it. You stood on the shoulders of geniuses to accomplish something as fast as you could, and before you knew what you had, you patented it, packaged it, slapped it on a plastic lunch box, and now you want to sell it."

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    Last edited by Harkins; September 16th, 2009 at 01:11 PM.
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  37. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunchback View Post
    (ps shes trying out for sheridan) O_O

    anywho, i use to draw manga when i was a kid and I watched pokemon and drew it a lot but i feel its becoming a cliche to a lot of kids up here. Your good if you can draw naruto or a furrie. I am not kidding you, this basically describes in a nut shell what my pre animation class is like here at algonquin.

    I love being different : D
    Wow, that's terrible. I don't know if it's because you're in a larger city, or the fact I was in a graphic design course, but in our design basics classes (essentially the "art" classes) in Sudbury we would have looked at someone pretty oddly if they started drawing furry art... less so anime (I admit to drawing it in my first year actually, grew out of it quickly) but skill was generally respected, in whatever style...

    What's the attitude of the instructors? Do they roll their eyes at the "omg naruto best art ever" bunch or do they not care much?

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    A lot of the conflict with manga/anime on this site wasn't caused by the style of art. It was caused by 16 year olds with 100,000+ DA pageviews who think they're some kind of phenomenon, then whine and cry when they come to CA and get a big cockslap into reality.

    DeviantArt and places like Gaia Online have given the anime-drawing group the illusion that copying still screens from Death Note is the way to become a great artist. They gauge their artistic skill on page views. Considering that one of the most "famous" artists on DA earned his status by drawing mostly Powerpuff girl panty shots, I think it's safe to say that this is an extremely ineffective way of judging one's chance of success in the real industry.

    That said, Hiroaki Samura is a badass.

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    jason: im worried its becoming a religion sotr of, because the teachers arent willing to beat it down but are kinda gently telling them that they should applie more to it and become better. I hope they undestand that. No lie man theres a big amount of them up here.( your artsy if you do stuff like that in highschool )

    think jason chan is a great example of what could happen with this mix : D

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    Funny reading into it as I was always taught at uni that you should have a style, which I thought was quite limiting as you're always going to improve.
    The thing is, as you improve you develop a style automatically. At least that's how I see it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by hunchback View Post
    think jason chan is a great example of what could happen with this mix : D
    Yes. This.

    There are plenty of others who have anime influences who are fantastic artists. Hell, Shaun Healey has a very anime style, and I find his art to be pretty incredible ( http://endling.deviantart.com/ ). He actually demo'd at Reverie, but again, he also had a thorough understanding of the rules of anatomy and composition before deciding to bend them to a style.

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    What people commonly refer to as style, isn't how flamboyant your drawing is. Style is the visual language an artist uses to express ideas, represent forms, and many other things. For example, if you look go to the top and click on the galleries you will notice that the line drawings from each artist looks a bit different. While they all are realistic, they still have their own style. Some of them represent a muscle using a solid line, while others use hatch marks. Some draw mechanical bits very organically, some look like a technical drawing. Sit down and a draw a sphere. How you represented that sphere is part of your style. It's just a simple object, but still contains style.

    That's all style is. As you grow as an artist, you pick up little bits and pieces of other artist's visual language and even develop your own. So there really is no need to force a style onto yourself. You like how Anime eyes look? Pick that up. You like how The Hulk's bicep was depicted in issue #485, pick it up. Take what you want, leave what you don't.

    However, it's still important to have a fundamental understanding of structure. You can't really put up wall paper without a wall.

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    I thougt having a "style" was all about staying true to your self and doing what you want. I like to think that the word style has been misused since the invention of marketing gimmics...

    Edit: what buck said. Still getting used to them live threads....

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    I haven't read everyones replies and I can probably guess everything I'll say has been said ... but eh I'll still throw my 2 cents in with my words.....


    I like anime plenty and love the type of animation
    But only when the artist actually shows off what he knows
    When an anime is so simplistic it makes me think.... "Where the hell are his muscles supposed to go?" then I have a problem

    Whats worse is the simpler the anime style
    The more fan-artists who think their all that spawn up
    Because they copy the simplicity they see and then get some 's


    One weird example of this that bugs me is the newer anime Code Geass
    I'm mixed on this anime.... because the mecha animation is damn good
    But the character designs, they piss me off so much
    I look at them and in most screens their stick figures (stick figures with boobs in the case of the girls)
    Their faces look almost disfigured to the point where you also wonder
    ..... "is there supposed to be a skull under there?"


    An example of the opposite of this would be one of my favorite anime's Berserk



    Ok I'm done ranting, like many other people have already done haha

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