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Thread: Why do you hate Anime and Manga so?

  1. #31
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    Well damn, guess I'm screwed, they put in an admin who uses the name of an anime/manga character.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TASmith View Post
    My problem with manga is that the very best film of the genre was Akira, which was made, when? in 1985? And it's never been surpassed in all this time. I mean, there's Miyazaki, who's an excellent story teller, but those are more for children. Then there's what's his face who directed Millenium Actress. That one had a good story.Ghost in the Shell was a great, one-time hit, and that Ninja Scroll was fun to watch. But so far as a combination of artistry and storytelling, Akira really takes the cake. And I'm not just talkiing about the action, it's the themes - there's the agony of growing up unloved, the corruption of politics, the mad rush of technology without thought of the consequences, fear of nuclear holocaust in the modern age, wonderment at what the future holds, and if there's any hope. That film handles all these questions superbly, all while expertly editing and pacing the story.

    Everytime I watch something new, I have to ask, what the hell happened? Didn't they watch Akira? Didn't that give them a clue as to what the medium could do? Visually, I think Miyazaki's the only one who's brought it back to that level. When's he going to make a story for an adult audience?
    what, Citizen Kane, Casablanca, Goodfellas, any of those classic were made when? And largely still not contended with, so same could be said about american films. Any of the Italian Renaissance masters, you wont see quality like that today, is art nowadays worth doing?

    It's all perception anyways, what you think is the interesting, what inspired you. But labeling the best film of a genre as hard fact is ridicukous.

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  5. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Rainville View Post
    Wow, that's terrible. I don't know if it's because you're in a larger city, or the fact I was in a graphic design course, but in our design basics classes (essentially the "art" classes) in Sudbury we would have looked at someone pretty oddly if they started drawing furry art... less so anime (I admit to drawing it in my first year actually, grew out of it quickly) but skill was generally respected, in whatever style...

    What's the attitude of the instructors? Do they roll their eyes at the "omg naruto best art ever" bunch or do they not care much?
    I'm in Design Fundamentals, and somehow, I haven't seen any anime or furry art yet. Did I step in some weird parallel universe?

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    NINJA SCROLL

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    I don't hate either, although I'm afraid to watch anime anymore for getting the "peace speech" just before the climax, the awkwardness that pervades male and female relationships at all levels, and characters flying into the air before striking someone(where there's no assumed "powers" or different physics for the characters) amongst other things.

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    i r loves me animus ほんとう、大好きだよ!

    No seriously, how could you miss a WHOLE thread dedicated to pretty much JUST POSTING ANIMU?! That thread is the only thing that justifies the existence of Lounge.

    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99627

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  11. #37
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    I'm and 80's kid when it comes to anime/manga, and draw it from reading it online when I feel inclined. BUT, I draw, more like doodle, things like Kamen Rider Spirits, Hajime no ippo, Crows, Fist of the Northstar, Bio-booster Guyver, & Bartender, and get some inspiration in the way stories are told the inking style. There are others (but those are off the top of my head).

    Battle angel Alita is one of the best!

    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
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  12. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by TASmith View Post
    Everytime I watch something new, I have to ask, what the hell happened? Didn't they watch Akira? Didn't that give them a clue as to what the medium could do? Visually, I think Miyazaki's the only one who's brought it back to that level. When's he going to make a story for an adult audience?

    Ok, my webmastering experience at Anipike is gonna come in here.

    First off, like cartoons, anime is mostly for kids. Yes, seriously. The majority of anime out there is made for kids. Don't get into the "what about hentai" because even that is considered fringe compared to what anime is made mostly for. The intended audience like cartoons is kids. Now kids can include teens too.

    There are anime that are exception to this, and I think you need to look at Satoshi Kon. That guy is all about storytelling, and feels that animation is just another medium.

    Manga on the other hand, we barely scraped the surface of what Japan has. Manga is for about every age range and demographic. One of the reasons is due to the fact printing in Japan is surprisingly cheaper than how it's done in the US. There are sports manga, cooking manga and even your average salaryman manga.

    Key terms: Manga is comics. Anime is short for Animation.

    Anime is not another term for "color" Manga can be in color too. Manga is predominately black and white due to cheaper printing.

    *takes off webmistress hat* and lets people continue to bring up the same anime titles over and over like Ninja Scroll, Akira, Ghost in the Shell etc.

    I never got why people tell me they hated Wicked City (which he made before Ninja Scroll) over Ninja Scroll because Wicked City had sex. SO DID NINJA SCROLL!!!

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    Interceptor: "what, Citizen Kane, Casablanca, Goodfellas, any of those classic were made when? And largely still not contended with, so same could be said about american films. Any of the Italian Renaissance masters, you wont see quality like that today, is art nowadays worth doing?"

    Every year there are new movies that push the boundaries of what film can do. Inglorious Basterds, No Country for Old Men, and Children of Men, are just a few recent titles that I find at least thought provoking enough to justify continuing the medium. On the art front, I posit that there are probably more masters living today with greater skills than at any other time in history. Michelangelo's probably being surpassed right as we speak, and for the umpteenth time already. So far as drawing and painting goes, I'd say Nathan Fowkes, for example, takes the cake. You could say it's like comparing apples and oranges, but I still think the "oranges of today" are sweeter.

    Arshes, I knew manga is also comics, sorry I didn't clarify. I know little about the comics, but a great deal about the anime that comes to America, having watched far too much of it. Part of the confusion comes from the MANGA Entertainment logo you see before watching most anime films.

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    All I know is the most popular anime always the worst... naruto, bleach, pokemon, derivative poo poo

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    Quote Originally Posted by TASmith View Post
    Visually, I think Miyazaki's the only one who's brought it back to that level. When's he going to make a story for an adult audience?
    I didn't know having an arrow ripping through arms and a head off with blood spewing everywhere is for kids. Princess Mononoke seems pretty adult-ish to me.

    I did read somewhere that Japanese and Korean animators are often paid like crap. Most studios would gladly stick to cute girls and similar content that is known to work for its otaku market than attempt to innovate. This, obviously, results in quality going down the shithole in most cases. Not every studio has the funding to "try" movies like Tekkonkinkreet.

    I'm sure if there were more studios attempting to make original Anime films, more of them will be memorable. Remember that 99% of everything is crap, even for movies done in live action. The only difference is that there are probably a lot more people trying to make live action movies here than Anime films there. I don't have evidence to back it up, though it is my general explanation.

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    "I didn't know having an arrow ripping through arms and a head off with blood spewing everywhere is for kids. Princess Mononoke seems pretty adult-ish to me."

    All his films have an element of violence - and usually the ones who do it are the least intelligent characters in the story. But, even in that film, I feel like the director is talking down to children. You know what the message is, loud and clear. That movie's all about saving the environment, and violence is bad, which are worthy goals, but it's also very simple. And the fairytale setting was, dare I say it? overdone. I think some of his later works, like Spirited Away, Howls Moving Castle, and Ponyo, are all better. Basically, I suppose, the closer the setting gets to the real world, the more applicable it becomes to thinking about solving real world problems. It's not really a gauge for measuring how good a film is, but I think it gives a film more substance.

    But, what's the message in Akira? There are several, and it takes awhile longer, at least for me, to think them out. For example, who's the villain in that movie? Is there one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Chow View Post
    I didn't know having an arrow ripping through arms and a head off with blood spewing everywhere is for kids. Princess Mononoke seems pretty adult-ish to me.

    I did read somewhere that Japanese and Korean animators are often paid like crap. Most studios would gladly stick to cute girls and similar content that is known to work for its otaku market than attempt to innovate. This, obviously, results in quality going down the shithole in most cases. Not every studio has the funding to "try" movies like Tekkonkinkreet.
    Depends on the culture you're brought up on. But the environmental theme is very common in anime. Karas, X, and Mononoke just a few.

    Japanese entry level animators are paid about $500 US equivalent dollars a month, back in Early 200 I have the article still and kept it to give people a dose of reality when the "otaku" wanted to be animators working in Japan cuz anime was so "kawaii".

    Not all animators know how to use their budget wisely either. If I remember correctly, Gainax blew most of its budget early on with Neon Genesis Evangelion and got away with the later episodes calling them "artistic" when it was really "oops f'd up our budget" I'm of the opinion it's a budget blower since it seems the guy keeps remaking his series so many damn times - even though yes, it's a money maker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R a n d i s View Post
    me loves anime and manga big time.

    But i hate manga tutorials made by foreigners and 13 years old "Otakus" who call themself Manga-ka.

    haha
    I agree with u Randis!

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    Quote Originally Posted by R a n d i s View Post
    me loves anime and manga big time.

    But i hate manga tutorials made by foreigners and 13 years old "Otakus" who call themself Manga-ka.
    I remember when a certain person who was the lead character designer for Boondocks the animation complained about Afro Samurai.

    He basically said that Japanese have no business drawing anime using Blacks because they don't understand (Black) culture.

    Needless to say...I believe he's been backpedaling but it truly was one of those

    moments I ever encountered, yes....the delicious IRONING...

    Last edited by Arshes Nei; September 17th, 2009 at 12:54 AM.
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    People have to note that manga/anime has as many genres as live action films.

    Those who hate them generally hate the artistic style. If they hate anything other than that, they don't even know what manga/anime is in the first place.

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    Smith, once again it seems like you're just flapping your jaws and bitching about something you really dont have any knowledge of. I'm guessing you have'nt given any good anime a chance in the last 10 years or so. It's really easy to say you have'nt seen anything good if you have'nt seen anything at all.

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    So dependent on cliche (because Japanese audience doesn't like too innovative ones) and so damn static animation (or lack of it).

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    Anime angers me. Too often I see anime and I look at the chicks and go "damn why don't real girls have figures like that? And why is that 13 year old wearing a D-cup?" then I get mad at myself for getting a boner to cartoons

    Story of my life :/

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    Anime industry nowdays deals with a very small number of dedicated audience (read: smelly otakus and hikikomoris) and they feed on them. It's a very weird market where 5% of population consumes 80% of the merchandise and stuff.

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    Miyazaki's films are as much for adults as children. I kind of think that's fairly obvious. His characters are full of depth and personality, his stories are dense and complex and reflect adult themes through the eyes of children which are often used as cyphers. Watch Nausicaa, or Laputa or Mononoke, there's a reason they appeal to adults. There's a difference between those films and Totoro or Kiki's Delivery Service, yes, but if you can't get anything out of those as an adult then that's a real shame.

    Just out of interest, what is the 'message' in Akira? A great film, indeed, but I didn't get a lot of 'depth' from it. I mainly thought it was adult because it was so violent and complicated!


    Quote Originally Posted by TASmith View Post
    "I didn't know having an arrow ripping through arms and a head off with blood spewing everywhere is for kids. Princess Mononoke seems pretty adult-ish to me."

    All his films have an element of violence - and usually the ones who do it are the least intelligent characters in the story. But, even in that film, I feel like the director is talking down to children. You know what the message is, loud and clear. That movie's all about saving the environment, and violence is bad, which are worthy goals, but it's also very simple. And the fairytale setting was, dare I say it? overdone. I think some of his later works, like Spirited Away, Howls Moving Castle, and Ponyo, are all better. Basically, I suppose, the closer the setting gets to the real world, the more applicable it becomes to thinking about solving real world problems. It's not really a gauge for measuring how good a film is, but I think it gives a film more substance.

    But, what's the message in Akira? There are several, and it takes awhile longer, at least for me, to think them out. For example, who's the villain in that movie? Is there one?


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    I'm reading "Starting Point" right now, much thanks to teohyc's blog, and I get the distinct impression that Miyazaki's work is primarily geared towards offering positive statements and stories to children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogidolim View Post
    So dependent on cliche (because Japanese audience doesn't like too innovative ones) and so damn static animation (or lack of it).

    if all you're seeing is static animation, you need to look harder.






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    Seriously though, one thing about anime has always bugged me, it's something that I've seen in a lot of series and it really should be stopped, I hate how the main characters in a series will give long winded hero speeches about concepts that really don't require explanation. During some showdown between him and the main antagonist of the story (or just of that episode) and usually after he's taken a beating he'll slump up and say something along the lines of "people like you think you can just go through life doing whatever you want and hurting people without worrying about the consequences. But there are always consequences to your actions no matter what and the people you hurt have feelings. You don't have the right to just take what you want from people and etc." and I'm just left yelling "Shut up! I get it! Ok 'don't be a dick' it's the basics of any moral philosophy, it doesn't need a 5 minute explanation, I'm not 5 for christ sake. You think it was that deep or something? Like your logic requires footnotes?"

    Also they have pauses in weird places in their sentences, they'll be like "oh yeah well why don't I show you <short pause> what I've learned since we last fought"

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    That's not something nearly exclusive to anime, Ryan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Edge Ryan View Post
    I hate how the main characters in a series will give long winded hero speeches about concepts that really don't require explanation.
    I think this was addressed in most related genres...(not just anime as Interceptor said)

    As they said in the Increidbles - "You're monologuing"

    I keep rewatching Ergo Proxy, there's so many little themes going on with that show. I just wish someone didn't rape the Wiki article because they had some "key terms" I was looking at that helped explain a lot, and now they're gone.

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    I got something better. This is what happens when you combine anime and tennis .



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    Lets not forget some of the op and ed in anime are quite the show themselves!





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    Since we're posting clips...

    This series have some amazing fight scenes



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    Interceptor:
    “But labeling the best film of a genre as hard fact is ridicukous.“

    I was just stating my opinion. I never asserted it as a hard fact.

    “Smith, once again it seems like you're just flapping your jaws and bitching about something you really dont have any knowledge of. I'm guessing you have'nt given any good anime a chance in the last 10 years or so. It's really easy to say you have'nt seen anything good if you have'nt seen anything at all.“

    We’re all just flapping our jaws, that’s what the lounge is for. It’s better than throwing insults, which, for you, is turning into a habit. As for my knowledge on the subject, I’ll admit I don’t have a masters, but I have watched a fair amount of anime, and I’ve been disappointed much of the time. Lately, I’ve been busy with work and raising my son, but if you have some suggestions for films, I’ll be sure to watch them, including what you’ve just now posted. Considering that nothing I’ve said up to this point was directed at you, I don’t see why you’ve chosen to take it personally.

    Poshspice:
    “Miyazaki's films are as much for adults as children. I kind of think that's fairly obvious. His characters are full of depth and personality, his stories are dense and complex and reflect adult themes through the eyes of children which are often used as cyphers. Watch Nausicaa, or Laputa or Mononoke, there's a reason they appeal to adults. There's a difference between those films and Totoro or Kiki's Delivery Service, yes, but if you can't get anything out of those as an adult then that's a real shame.“

    Of course I get a lot out of them. Miyazaki tells beautiful stories. Once I get my house set up, I’d love to have the complete collection of his Works. I’ve seen Nausicaa and Mononoke, and Porco Rosso, and pretty much every other film he made. He’s a genius, artistically, and as a story teller. It’s just that, in making films for children, he wrestles with children’s problems, such as how to find wonderment in the world, even in the small things in life, how to be happy, how to be true to yourself, etc. He lightly touches on larger problems such as politics, violence, and the environment, but the main purpose of his films is to give children hope. The way our world is headed, though, that’s almost like telling kids that Santa is real...

    „Just out of interest, what is the 'message' in Akira? A great film, indeed, but I didn't get a lot of 'depth' from it. I mainly thought it was adult because it was so violent and complicated!“

    „A great story doesn’t give up all its secrets at once.“ – Stephen King

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