Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 33
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    US
    Posts
    786
    Thanks
    97
    Thanked 153 Times in 137 Posts

    If I get my degree in Art Ed, what other doors will open?

    Alright guys and gals, my mom got me thinking yesterday about something. If I get my degree in Art Ed, obviously I'll be certified to teach, but I don't want to limit myself to teaching.

    I want to do some illustration, I'd love to do some portrait work, maybe do some group work on a cool sculpture. I would also love to work on a comic someday, or maybe even do some work for Marvel. Everyone in my family has or has had a "9-5" job, so it's what I was raised around, and while that's great for job security (sometimes not even that), it's not all I want to do.

    Does a B.A. in Fine Arts say "I know my way around a studio and all the supplies in it" better than a B.A. in Art Education?

    Or would a degree in any field of art open up a lot of doors, but my specialization would be considered teaching? Hence, anyone looking for someone specializing in Illustration would probably pass me over.

    I hope this thread isn't too confusing, and I know we've got a lot of serious pro's on here who've done some great work. Anyone have any input?

    p.s. I hope this thread isn't too confusing!
    Doctors heal you, Artists immortalize you.

    "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach" - bullshit.

    The usual staples for anatomy:
    George Bridgman
    Joseph Sheppard
    Andrew Loomis


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
    1,569
    Thanks
    1,169
    Thanked 1,191 Times in 516 Posts
    If you get a job teaching, you won't make a ton of money. You will make enough to get by though and, holidays included, you'll have 4 months a year off of work to invest in your portfolio. When you do work you'll be home by 4 (as opposed to a second job) and won't be coming off of a day of physical labor. You'll have the best medical in the world and you'll start acruing some retirement at a very early age. You'd also be a candidiate for jobs in every city in the country so you could eventually move to a city near "the action".

    If you don't expect to be a proffesional grade artist by the time you're 22 then I would seriously consider getting the teaching certificate, especially if you're not going to an elite art school.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Bill For This Useful Post:


  5. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Manhattan, NY
    Posts
    737
    Thanks
    347
    Thanked 288 Times in 256 Posts
    From what i have seen from both my my mother who has a degree in art education and my art teacher in high school... you will not improve very much artistically. My mother said most of the classes dealt with child psychology and how to teach art to beginners, while mostly neglecting her own artistic skills. My mom managed to get through university without ever taking a drawing class, only some basic painting. If you do choose to go down that path, the university will not be prepping you to be an artist, it will be prepping you to teach children art. You will have to spend a lot of personal time teaching yourself and taking workshops/outside classes etc.

    I don't know if it has changed since my mother got her degree (sometime in the '80s), but I would be wary if you truly want to pursue illustration full time eventually.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to cdejong For This Useful Post:


  7. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Boise, ID
    Posts
    1,221
    Thanks
    887
    Thanked 1,535 Times in 567 Posts
    Art Ed is a tough road. There seems to be a stigma, deserved or not, attached to art teachers. Very few of the ones I know who go through our program or are out teaching keep up their art careers. Whether it is exhaustion from dealing with students, a demanding schedule (they do get a lot of holiday but spend a lot of it in prep), or the fact that they do not take as many art classes as a BFA student, few seem to take the art part very far. Now of course there are exceptions. Personality would have a lot to do with it. I teach at the university level and much more is demanded from us in the way of professional production, but as we all know there are many abusers of that. Too many profs use tenure to sit on their fat laurels. Getting in to college level teaching is much more competitive. But our teaching education consisted of hard core art making classes and few actual teaching classes. In fact teaching only really came in to the picture if you had an assistantship. Luckily I had those all through my program and lot of adjunct work. Sorry for the rambling but what it comes down to is your own personality. It seems to be very difficult to make the K-12 teaching thing work with a strong art career but of course is not impossible. But most pros I know had to do something else while they built their career.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to bcarman For This Useful Post:


  9. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Slovakia
    Posts
    4,194
    Thanks
    5,141
    Thanked 2,053 Times in 1,109 Posts
    "You'd also be a candidiate for jobs in every city in the country so you could eventually move to a city near "the action"."

    Not exactly. When you get your masters in Art Ed, you get an initial license which lasts 5 years. In that time, you need to keep taking grad classes to qualify for the professional license, which in Massachusetts, at least, you have to keep renewing through more and more "professional development" classes. It's a racket to keep schools getting money from you, especially considering the B.S. that gets fed in many of these courses. You get that license in one state. Depending on your program, you can transfer that to many other states (not all so check which ones). But that can take a long time, and you may need to retake tests. Plus, everytime you change state, you have to restart your pension program.

    I would recommend the idea if you like children. If you don't, and even if you do, it's a high stress job for several reasons:

    1. teaching elementary art is impossible, and that's where the most openings are. You're one teacher with up to 1000 students. You see each one only 45 minute a week, in some cases for only 1/3 of the year. It's not art ed, it's art exposure, and kids know the grades they earn are worthless.

    2. Teaching highschool involves a better opportunity to actually teach skills, but older kids have more issues. There's anti-authoritarians, homophobes, thugs, drug users and pushers, kids with pent up anger and weapons, etc. Add to that, your boss will try to press you into teaching the worst students (who hate art and want an easy A), and also special ed students, often mixing them all together. I remember dealing with these kinds of kids picking on a blind girl who was a bit socially clueless, and liked to sing. She had a good voice. You may or may not get support when you want certain students out of your class.
    3. There's no job security, especially in high school. Art's the first cut, and last rehired. Politicians don't even mention art, when talking about improving schools.

    Having said all that, I went down this road, and it's still my dream (still just a dream, but I'm a special case). I'm currently teaching something I don't enjoy, but there is a special art school near where I live, and I'm hoping for an opening. Teaching art keeps your skills up, because you're constantly demonstrating everything. You still have nights, and all that vacation time. Even with job cuts, teaching's still more stable than working freelance.

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TASmith For This Useful Post:


  11. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    The Frozen North (Canada)
    Posts
    1,180
    Thanks
    382
    Thanked 416 Times in 201 Posts
    I'm not sure what the rules are where you're at, but where I'm at you can teach at a college level with a BFA (minimum requirement).
    MY WEBSITE: PaintedSky.ca
    MY SKETCHBOOK: Ook's Book - Karyl Craves Your Approval

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to KarylGilbertson For This Useful Post:


  13. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Slovakia
    Posts
    4,194
    Thanks
    5,141
    Thanked 2,053 Times in 1,109 Posts
    If you want to teach college level, you need mad skills, and/or mad BS skills with a MFA to go with it.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to TASmith For This Useful Post:


  15. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    The Frozen North (Canada)
    Posts
    1,180
    Thanks
    382
    Thanked 416 Times in 201 Posts
    Well, I'm in Canada. The rules may be different elsewhere, but at the college I attended, teachers were required to have only a BFA and a continuing career in the arts (they have to be practicing in the field in which they teach). MFAs, Education training were encouraged but not required.
    MY WEBSITE: PaintedSky.ca
    MY SKETCHBOOK: Ook's Book - Karyl Craves Your Approval

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to KarylGilbertson For This Useful Post:


  17. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    In my own thoughts.
    Posts
    1,367
    Thanks
    434
    Thanked 559 Times in 255 Posts
    I have a bfa now. It does not open doors. It just wastes your money.
    Save your cash and go to an atelier.

  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Hyskoa For This Useful Post:


  19. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    289
    Thanks
    214
    Thanked 848 Times in 101 Posts
    Degrees in Art Ed focus on the Ed part not the Art part. If your goal is to be an artist, the training you'll receive in an Art Ed program will not be adequate. Also, you don't need a degree in Art Ed to be an art teacher. I think that if you teach at a high school level or lower all you need is a degree of some kind and a teaching certificate from the state you teach in. I could be wrong about that but I think I heard that somewhere.

  20. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Carl Dobsky For This Useful Post:


  21. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    US
    Posts
    786
    Thanks
    97
    Thanked 153 Times in 137 Posts
    Hrm, ok guys, thanks for all the input. I live in PA, and I've been told the degree I'm pursuing is all I need to go out and teach art.

    Bill in response to your post, I'm not aiming to make a ton of money - it'd be nice, but you have to get to a point where people know your name, and have THAT be what they pay for. Sort of like brand name food/clothes - you dont always get much, but all that money is paying for the name (and sometimes quality). Also, the part about being pro by the time I'm 22; I'm 23 already, and I have an Associates - now that doesn't necessarily make me a pro, but I like to think I'm pretty good. If you look at my sketchbook you might wonder, but only the samurai is really a current, up-to-date thing I've drawn. Everything else, as well as the things I've scanned today (and will put up shortly) are all older pieces.

    cdejong teaching art full time is what I think I'd like to do. I already spend a lot of time teaching myself stuff, but full time illustration is not something I really want to do. I just want to do a few now and then maybe for some extra cash. Somehow I get the feeling I'm gonna be very busy when I'm out of school. Your mom must've learned art somewhere else, otherwise how can she teach a subject in which she has no training?

    bcarman yea thats my plan as well - build up a career in art while teaching. I think I can really help people who want to learn.

    TASmith> To be honest, teaching children isn't my dream job. At the moment, I'm not extremely crazy about kids. Children just like to have fun, but when I teach, I'm probably not going to be the type who says "have fun" - I'm in the market to teach real art skills. I'll need real students, with a real desire to learn. I do also think all schools are different - pay varies depending on district, students probably vary even more; it's all where you decide to teach in my opinion.

    ookchk where I am at, a BFA is qualification enough for k-12. College requires a Masters. Which is what I want to get. *it's a personal goal* Education training here IS required. Or at least K-12 it's required.

    Hysoka by open doors, I meant more like teaching at an art league, a public school, or even a private school if I'm lucky. I'd also like the opportunity for some freelancing illustration, maybe help with a comic book someday.. I didn't mean go to hollywood or something.

    carl here is isn't that easy. I've already got formal art training in many mediums, and I'm teaching myself acrylics right now. I've had formal training in Conte, graphite, charcoal (vine and compressed), oils, some acrylics, pen/ink and I can do mat cutting and framing. It's pretty easy actually. If all I needed was a teaching certificate (I haven't actually checked, but I'm getting a teaching certificate with my B.A. in Art Ed anyway, so between the certification, the degree and the rest of my training, that should be more than adequate) I also don't see how one will teach if they don't know how to, and how will they teach any subject in which they haven't got much skill?

    By the way, Bill, I'm single, with no children. With how my life is now, any career that pays even 20k per year would be a great boost for me. Speaking of which, some of the guys here that replied appear to have experience. How would I find out what I can expect for a salary?
    Last edited by hitnrun; August 26th, 2009 at 10:47 PM.
    Doctors heal you, Artists immortalize you.

    "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach" - bullshit.

    The usual staples for anatomy:
    George Bridgman
    Joseph Sheppard
    Andrew Loomis

  22. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Slovakia
    Posts
    4,194
    Thanks
    5,141
    Thanked 2,053 Times in 1,109 Posts
    "Degrees in Art Ed focus on the Ed part not the Art part. If your goal is to be an artist, the training you'll receive in an Art Ed program will not be adequate. Also, you don't need a degree in Art Ed to be an art teacher. I think that if you teach at a high school level or lower all you need is a degree of some kind and a teaching certificate from the state you teach in. I could be wrong about that but I think I heard that somewhere."

    In Massachusetts, with a bachelors, you can earn a preliminary license to teach in any subject for about 4 years, by passing a test. However, getting a job with that can be tough, when competing with teachers who earned their masters and now have either an initial or professional licensure. If you want a long career as an educator, you have to have the masters and certificates.

  23. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
    1,569
    Thanks
    1,169
    Thanked 1,191 Times in 516 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by hitnrun View Post
    How would I find out what I can expect for a salary?
    Salaries.com should have some info for you. I checked when I first posted here and a teacher in Columbus, OH looks to start at just over 38k. For someone who's single, young, no kids, and not much debt that is a Very livable wage in Columbus. If you needed more you could easily pick something up part time in the Summers that'd get you into the 40's.

    Getting an art degree, especially a bad one, especially borrowing money in the process can put a person in a horrible hole. Teaching, in my view, would have been an opportunity to stay on top of bills, survive on 'only' one job, and take night and summer classes at CCAD in the interest of the portfolio.

    That might take a while but you get to have a life in the process, as opposed to working long ass days in unproffesional jobs as you struggle to pay rent and scratch out some progress during solitary weekends and holidays towards skills and portfolio work.

    I just spent 12 horrible years doing that and in hindsight I think my life so far would have been much better had I been teaching. I'm not saying it's the right move for someone with professional grade skills, like Carl, but if you're not professional grade at graduation it'll give you a chance to keep making progress with classes, skills, and portfolio development.

    On the other hand I think there are plenty of English, Art, Music, etc. teachers in their mid fifties who took the teaching job, got complacent or distracted, never met their goals, and lived lives much less interesting and fulfilling than what they had once imagined. It depends on the person.

    Good Luck

  24. The Following User Says Thank You to Bill For This Useful Post:


  25. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    US
    Posts
    786
    Thanks
    97
    Thanked 153 Times in 137 Posts
    I'm wishing I could find Carl's sketchbook because I'm no novice - not by a long shot. But, I think someone's skills being "professional" level is relatively subjective. What one person thinks is pro, someone else might think looks terrible. I've seen many contradictions like that - but it's more about specific areas of a work - someone will like one part and another person will strongly dislike it.
    Doctors heal you, Artists immortalize you.

    "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach" - bullshit.

    The usual staples for anatomy:
    George Bridgman
    Joseph Sheppard
    Andrew Loomis

  26. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
    1,569
    Thanks
    1,169
    Thanked 1,191 Times in 516 Posts
    Last edited by Bill; August 26th, 2009 at 10:58 PM.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Concept Artist-Degree or no degree?
    By sparksfly076 in forum ART DlSCUSSION
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: May 16th, 2012, 10:29 AM
  2. Paint out doors with laptop?
    By Immortal Cintiq in forum ART DlSCUSSION
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: November 9th, 2011, 11:35 PM
  3. IREM Closes its doors.
    By FightingSeraph in forum Artist Lounge
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: July 31st, 2011, 11:28 AM
  4. Replies: 5
    Last Post: July 13th, 2008, 09:43 PM
  5. some doors
    By nox in forum ART CRITIQUE CENTER
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: January 20th, 2005, 12:14 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Developed Actively by vBSocial.com