Sketchbook: One Nice Day - Page 9
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Thread: One Nice Day

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by papervampire View Post
    hey nice stuff so far. When you're copying from a photo, try thinking of it not as an image of something familiar, like "a woman's face," but instead as a series of abstract interlocking shapes. Imagine if you cut out the neck in that last picture with a scissors. the silhouette of the neck would be completely abstract, unrecognizable. Try to draw that unrecognizable shape. Also concentrate on shadows. Lines don't really exist, so it's difficult ascribing lines to a photo. Try focusing on light and shade. Make up your drawing by drawing the abstract shapes of the darkest shadows. You'll find that by drawing the shadow, rather than "hair," or "a nose," your drawings will magically come together into something recognizable.
    Ah yes, I've recently borrowed this book "The Artist's Complete Guide to Drawing the Head", but I freaked out when I saw the author using chiaroscuro to draw portraits. His drawings are very impressive, but I know I'll fail horribly if I even try that. For e.g: in the Kate Winslet photo, I can't quite make out the portions of light and dark. It's like, the entire face is all light with only a portion of the cheeks that's darker, and the bottom of the jaw area which is dark.

    Trying to see light and shadows is even more challenging than trying to accurately judge curves.
    I'll give it a try, though, and post my shit in the coming weeks. be warned, though, because you'll be looking at an ABSTRACT PAINTING. LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamber Parrk View Post
    Hey Xeon,
    Re Kate Winslet: you're "off model" a bit, but that is still a very nice drawing. You're being a little too hard on yourself on that one!
    And your words are so kind and tender that I want to cry after reading your post.

    Quote Originally Posted by cgaddict View Post
    Looking good, your faces seem to be improving quite a bit. Can I ask if you have done any Loomis face studies? If not, I highly recommend them, they really help understand how the face works in various angles. Keep up the good work!
    Haven't done any Loomis head studies since like 7 months ago? It was sometime between August - September 2009, but I gave up after a 1 - 2 miserable weeks cos' I can't figure out how to get the ear line part.

    I'm now drawing by eye to try to train my eye. When school starts, if I'm not wrong, they teach construction for the human head, so maybe then, I could ask the teacher more about the human head etc. Loomis is truly beyond my intellect.

    After drawing faces from photos, I come to realize that the hardest part is not so much of the features, but the structure and shape of the face, especially the area from the cheekbones to the bottom jaw where the curves are just crazy.

    See you all; take care!
    Xeon

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  2. #242
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    lol Whaz uuup! nothing really new I could tell you on the face. I know I still have a tonx3 trouble on faces. Though I don't really do any face. I think I've done two on my own out side of art class. when you say drawing by eye, are you talking about mentally drawing it? I know that that is a good idea, until a little while ago I never even thought of it, But I have been going it during school lol >.< I think you should ( I don't know if you are or not) draw from imagination. It does matter what it is, but as long as you try to do it. From what I have hear that is even if you do all of the studies in the world, if you don't apply them then you are wasting your time. I think blending some of your shading would help you a lot. If you can't get a blending stump then just use a Q-tip It works really well. Or just don't do the shading till you get the basic information down. Have you tryed putting a lot of things together then drawing it so there is more then one thing to draw.


    lol have you ever felt like a hipocrit? I kinda do because I tell people stuff but it normally stuff that I need and should be doing.

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  4. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diarum View Post
    when you say drawing by eye, are you talking about mentally drawing it?
    Nah, when I talk about drawing by eye, I'm refering to the usual "draw what you see" Betty Edwards concept.
    It's just that, in theory, while "draw what you see" sounds perfect, it's not really that perfect in real life. Because if everyone is able to draw exactly what they see, there won't be any art noobs in this world.

    Like, you see a jug and a water bottle on a table and you try to draw exactly as you see. While the result will have some likeness, trying to achieve 100% exact likeness is where the challenge is.

    Same for drawing faces. Drawing exactly what you see can only take you so far and produce drawings better than the average joe who draws symbols, but to be able to produce total likeness of the sitter's face is another challenge.

    E.g: The curve of the face is going 10.91-degrees to the left for this part, then swerve 32.78 degrees to the upper-right before slighting tilting down at 81.97 degrees. While the eye can see how this curve is going, drawing it down on paper and capturing this kind of accuracy by hand is very insanely hard for me; a feat achievable only by real artists.

    I think you should ( I don't know if you are or not) draw from imagination. It does matter what it is, but as long as you try to do it. From what I have hear that is even if you do all of the studies in the world, if you don't apply them then you are wasting your time.
    LOL, I've done hundreds of pages of drawings from observation but less than 1 page is from imagination.
    I think I should try this a bit more.

    lol have you ever felt like a hipocrit? I kinda do because I tell people stuff but it normally stuff that I need and should be doing.
    LOL, then in order not to feel like a hypocrite, you should practice what you preach. Now, that solves all the problems!

    See you,
    Xeon

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  5. #244
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    It's 24 May 2010 at this time of writing - school starts in approx 11 hours. I'm posting some drawings I did during the past 3 days here, so there!




    The photo ref for the drawing below is only 1" by 1", so I had to really peer at it to see the curves etc. I drew it 10+ larger than the original size. The lower part of the face starting from the base of the nose downwards has some likeness, but the eyes are very crappy.


    I think this is a photo of Natalie Imbruglia:



    Nowadays, when drawing faces, I'm focusing all my time and efforts on the curves of the face and not so much on the features. According to one poster on CA, the reason why we are able to recognize our friends from far away in the street is cos' of the shape of the face, and not the "eye lashes" or other details.

    The curvature of the edges of the face (the contours) is the hardest to draw among everything on the head.

    That's all for now,
    Xeon

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  6. #245
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    well you getting closer and closer to likness with ever up date. So that is a good sign. I think one problem you have is with the eyes, the last picture you seem to have left out the #1 defining feature for an asian (The eyes). I think that some of your curves are over exaggerated. lol something that I do too. And I think your adding stuff that isn't there, lol I'll leave you to find out what I am talking about!

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    Hey Xeon,

    It's hard to give you any advice here. Because, I think you're on the right track and you just need to keep doing lots of what you're doing to gradually-- like the way moving water wears away stone-- get ever so slightly more developed.

    You're "in the ballpark"-- it's all just a matter of refinement.

    You may want to consider working from B&W refs produced by artists such as Loomis, Norman Rockwell, and Leyendecker. I think an unnecessary part of your efforts/struggle may be in trying to translate the subtle values of fashion photo refs. Quality refs in "dry media" by good artists might prove a bit easier to copy and study.

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  10. #247
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    Wow, this is Xeon's SB! I've read your comments in many many thread, but this is the first time I stumbled to your SB!

    Nice portrait drawing! Altough they are still rough, but you've captured the likeness, especially on the chinese woman...

    Nowadays, when drawing faces, I'm focusing all my time and efforts on the curves of the face and not so much on the features. According to one poster on CA, the reason why we are able to recognize our friends from far away in the street is cos' of the shape of the face, and not the "eye lashes" or other details.
    Thx for this too. It's the first time I hear it, and I think trying to pay more attention to "the curve of the face" will improve my drawing. Though I love paying attention to the details of the face, because they are beautiful and "feels good" when I tried to draw them hahahaha

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  12. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diarum View Post
    And I think your adding stuff that isn't there, lol I'll leave you to find out what I am talking about!
    Are you refering to the 2nd drawing, the one of Natalie Imbruglia? I removed the sunglasses at the lips because I can't stand that piece of shit blocking her sexy lips which I feel like kissing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamber Parrk View Post
    You may want to consider working from B&W refs produced by artists such as Loomis, Norman Rockwell, and Leyendecker. I think an unnecessary part of your efforts/struggle may be in trying to translate the subtle values of fashion photo refs. Quality refs in "dry media" by good artists might prove a bit easier to copy and study.
    Thanks Kamber! I'll start using B/W refs once I can print those photos using someone else's printer (I'm a terrible cheapskate and don't wanna waste my own printer's precious cartridge which costs $$$)

    Quote Originally Posted by BluezAce View Post
    Thx for this too. It's the first time I hear it, and I think trying to pay more attention to "the curve of the face" will improve my drawing. Though I love paying attention to the details of the face, because they are beautiful and "feels good" when I tried to draw them hahahaha
    Glad that someone else's advice helped you. It's time for me to drop by your SB!

    EDIT: I just visited your SB and you're so many light years ahead! And I always thought you were a beginner until I saw your shit.
    As the Chinese saying goes, "The foolish (me) does not recognize Mountain Tai even when it standing in front of them".

    Good day!
    Xeon

    Last edited by Xeon_OND; May 24th, 2010 at 10:38 AM.
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    The Penicls are looking better and better.
    In the latest ones, there is one thing missing out witch is the darkest darks, like the crevise of the mouth and the eyelashes apply, some more value contrast in the final stage to really make it pop.
    Good work so far, keep it up

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  15. #250
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    Here, I put up some things I think will help. One thing that stands out, you keep snubbing the noses of your portraits.

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  17. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by TASmith View Post
    Here, I put up some things I think will help. One thing that stands out, you keep snubbing the noses of your portraits.
    Well Tas, I truly appreciate that you spend your precious time marking up my drawings! It's among the highest form of valuable advice I can receive!

    I didn't notice the nose part (seems that the noses I drew are too flat, lacking bone) and the lips part. When I draw faces, though, I draw them by eye without the "divide-face-into-thirds". I think I'll try that in my next few drawings.

    And if you want to open an art school, come to Singapore. LOL

    ----------------------------
    UPDATES:

    My drawings from imagination, as part of the class assignment done on sketchbook(when I draw from imagination, I end up with 2-year old doodles). I hate to draw on stupid A5 sketchbooks. Very small and tight:




    Exercises from Michael Hampton's book:



    And some copies of Hampton's gestures (I really LOVE his gesture style):



    When I tried doing his gesture on a photo of a man, I produced Shit:




    And my usual drawings on A3 paper:











    Below, figure drawing from a photo as part of the class's introductory assignment, as the teacher wants to warm us up and find out our drawing abilities at the same time. Everytime I thought that I've drawn an accurate copy of the photo, it turns out haywire when I put both in the computer and compare them side-by-side:


    Below, faster sketch of the same photo. I'm disappointed with the head, which is too gigantic :


    Allan Kraayvanger (author of a few drawing books) mentioned that the human eye isn't trained to copy and draw exactly what the subject looks like, and that we will be disappointed if we compare our works and the photo ref side by side. Well, if people on this world can do it, maybe I can too. If I can't, I will....I will...

    Anyway, I'm currently going into learning how to render tones and values, bit by bit. That will be my next goal, and at the same time, I really hope to improve my observational drawing skills. Drawing from life is VERY HARD. It's a constant challenge, even a painful frustrating struggle at times.

    This week onwards, I believe we will have some actual drawing in class. I'm now waiting for the book "The Figure" (by Walt Reed) to come.

    Lastly, if anyone has comments on my drawings, feel free to do so.

    May Monsieur Ingres bless us all,
    Xeon

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    Lol well I will sat this for the male pose, umm there is no difference between the guys "sack" and his leg its like its connected. Other then that its a much of anatomy problems like your leg shape and there is no knee on the (our) right, so his left. The left side of his chest, there is no shoulder in the first one and the second one is better. The right arm (again our right ) looks wrong, in the first one its to big, 2nd is mis shapen. lol yea that head is huge ( that is something I do all the time, either its to big or to small)

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  20. #253
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    Xeon hey man good to see you're still hard at work. Sorry I haven't been posting much or stopping by your sb much lately. It's summer where I live and I been running around outside, playin on the boat etc. Anyway, the most recent self portraits are really looking great. U are makin a lot of progress there man. Keep cracking away at it. The still life stuff looks as good as ever. The sandals are really impressive especially. Those last two pose studies you did are REALLY good man. U r makin me want to studie more anatomy to catch up! Keep up the good work, it keeps me motivated!

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  22. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diarum View Post
    Lol well I will sat this for the male pose, umm there is no difference between the guys "sack" and his leg its like its connected. Other then that its a much of anatomy problems like your leg shape and there is no knee on the (our) right, so his left. The left side of his chest, there is no shoulder in the first one and the second one is better. The right arm (again our right ) looks wrong, in the first one its to big, 2nd is mis shapen. lol yea that head is huge ( that is something I do all the time, either its to big or to small)
    Great observations and keen eye! I never noticed all these till you mention them. I guess maybe that's when learning anatomy will be good cos' you can do self-checks etc. But I'm leaving anatomy till slightly later.

    Quote Originally Posted by PermaN00b View Post
    Xeon hey man good to see you're still hard at work.
    Remember : as aspiring artists, we don't give up no matter how much our art sucks.

    Sorry I haven't been posting much or stopping by your sb much lately. It's summer where I live and I been running around outside, playin on the boat etc.
    Oh yeah, I wish I was you. You seem to be living a carefree happy life, which is good, compared to me, with school workload burden (which is monstrous) + personal drawing aspirations.

    See you folks!
    Xeon

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    Xeon you're getting so much better!

    One thing I really want to see you do though is FINISH something really polished. Like on your likenesses you give up on the hair. I want to see you finish it. That would make me a happy camper. But you really are improving, I haven't looked in about a month and you've jumped forwards in leaps and bounds. Keep up the work and the effort, you'll get where you want to be.

    I know.. I'm not one to talk I haven't updated my SB in forever. But you're doing great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardescoere View Post
    Xeon you're getting so much better!

    One thing I really want to see you do though is FINISH something really polished. Like on your likenesses you give up on the hair. I want to see you finish it. That would make me a happy camper. But you really are improving, I haven't looked in about a month and you've jumped forwards in leaps and bounds. Keep up the work and the effort, you'll get where you want to be.

    I know.. I'm not one to talk I haven't updated my SB in forever. But you're doing great.
    Thanks Arde! Seems that you're a lurker here sometimes.
    Well, for the hair, I never understood how to draw it, so I always scribble it in. In future I'll get this book on rendering realistic textures, then I'll do the hair.

    Right now, I'm taking the learning of tones and values slowly.
    I hope to be able to achieve photo-realistic renderings someday, then I'll go on to textures rendering.

    See you and take care! Seems that you've taken the initiative to find a new job with less working hours so that you can draw more! If only there are more people like you in this world!

    Good day,
    Xeon

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    1st nude gunman is a very nice study.

    The inherent error in both studies-- the figure's left arm in the first, and the head in the second, illustrates the importance of getting the proportions right in the initial layout before you commit to working out the details.

    I should know-- I do the same thing all the time.

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  28. #258
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    I agree 150% with KP, I do that a lot too, its a bad habit!! IT MUST BE BROKEN!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamber Parrk View Post
    1st nude gunman is a very nice study.
    The inherent error in both studies-- the figure's left arm in the first, and the head in the second, illustrates the importance of getting the proportions right in the initial layout before you commit to working out the details.

    I should know-- I do the same thing all the time.
    LOL, yeah, but it's so hard to spot the error by yourself!
    I guess I jumped in a bit too early to the details, and must delay a bit more (my process is usually : draw abstract-looking rough light shapes ---> refine them to fit the subject's ---> put in the curves and details ---> shading).

    Quote Originally Posted by Diarum View Post
    I agree 150% with KP, I do that a lot too, its a bad habit!! IT MUST BE BROKEN!!!!
    And so it shall! LOL

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    Yo whats up! looks like you are working hard lately
    well.. what i feel is, you should spend more time on the constructional drawings rather than rendering/shading...and when u draw anything...try to feel/see the object as a transparent thing, as if its made of a glass..that way you will be able to understand and draw the proper construction. (ignore it if you are doing that already :/)
    just a suggestion..keep working hard..see you soon

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    Quote Originally Posted by shyamshriram View Post
    Yo whats up! looks like you are working hard lately
    well.. what i feel is, you should spend more time on the constructional drawings rather than rendering/shading...and when u draw anything...try to feel/see the object as a transparent thing, as if its made of a glass..that way you will be able to understand and draw the proper construction. (ignore it if you are doing that already :/)
    just a suggestion..keep working hard..see you soon
    Hi Shyam! Thanks for dropping by!
    Today, I just happen to start taking simple still life objects and trying to draw them transparently and using the 4 geometric solids to draw them.

    You're the only one I know of in this country whose enthusiasm for drawing is as much as, or more than me. Most of the folks I know are more into drawing anime and comics and not so into the draw-from-life thing. School has started, and there's this guy from my class who looks like you, and everytime I see him, I keep thinking "Shyam", though he's not interested in drawing, though.

    Hope to see you soon. I'll probably go to those figure drawing sessions a few months from now once I know what I'm doing.

    See you and take care,
    Xeon

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    At school, I can start to feel homework piling up, but my strategy is to do just enough to pass those subjects which I've no interest in, and direct my efforts and energy into those art / drawing-related modules.

    Our art teacher told us to try to break down the manikin into the basic shapes and draw 30 poses. My attempts:






    Geometric solids rendered using the "scribbling" method (random strokes, figures of 8, C and S). It seems this method can help to achieve the photo-realistic effect, which I lust for all along. The 2 spheres fail:



    Work in progress. I'll refine it and post again next week.
    This is usually what my sketch looks like when I draw faces. And I have ESPECIALLY BIG problems when drawing this kind of long oval faces. Other types of faces are not so bad:


    Objects drawn using the construction method:



    I dunno how to break the complicated subjects below into geometric solids, and will be posting on CA.org for help.




    I'm currently doing a bit of tone/value study in between my learning of constructional drawing. This whole new 3D construction thing is very awkward to me, but it is fun and solid. I'm gonna miss the previous method which I used to draw from life, that is: to let the pencil roam and run freely on the page while you try to copy the contours, refining it, run the pencil, refining etc. Once in a while, I'll go back to drawing that way. Aye. :|

    That's all for this week.

    Good night!
    Xeon

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    Hey there, lots of improvement in here. I'm glad to see you are working hard to become better. Just keep it up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Turcin View Post
    Hey there, lots of improvement in here. I'm glad to see you are working hard to become better. Just keep it up.
    Aye, thanks Ivan! You're too kind!

    -----------------------------------------
    UPDATE:

    Starting this week, I've changed my drawing approach to constructional drawing. As Honorius said on CA.org recently, this world is 3D, and you're not going to be able to learn anything if you draw 2D (the contour-based approach or similar), because when you draw 2D, you are not taking depth into account, in addition to the many benefits of construction drawing.

    I tried it myself, and realized that by drawing structurally, I am able to:

    -connect with the subject / object on a deeper, more "personal" level
    -able to jump right in to draw anywhere, anytime, without having to worry about details
    -the subject gets "engraved" in my mind a lot deeper

    I'm going to draw everything using this approach, except portraits.

    My drawings for last week:

    Hands again! Been a long time since I last drew them. How many days, how many years? Part of my class homework.
    Our teacher wants us to draw them using construction via cubes, but I personally think it's too fast for me. I haven't got used to this construction thing and I need to do this difficult thing!

    I admit I cheated, by using the fast-contour approach to draw the fingers 65% of the time. :twisted: That said, I'm still practicing a bit of this myself daily. It's just overwhelming to suddenly jump to drawing hands this way when I'm having problems constructing some of the more complex still life. I dunno WTH I'm drawing 80% of the time for this hand homework.

    I'm getting Bridgman's Boxed Set tomorrow, which consists of the epic "The book of a Hundred Hands":





    Below paintings are part of my Digital Art module. The Wacom tablet is mind-fucking my brain, my eyes, my hands, my soul and my ego all at the same time. I need a long time to get used to it. Can't even draw a decent ellipse using the pen, not to mention decent lines. I try to squint at the reference photo to see the values but painting them in digitally is another thing:



    Home furniture drawn using purely construction via boxes:



    The F-clamp at the right below is drawn using construction. This is the 1st time it comes out looking decent via this method:


    I wanted to kill myself after finishing rendering the self-portrait below. Before adding in tone, the drawing has a good 75+% likeness.
    After adding in tone, the drawing lost all likeness.
    I dunno what happened! I've studied and mapped the values as best as I can, but my face looks as if it's been covered in soot. Maybe I should avoid 6B in future and stick to my cute HB ("The HB is the most beautiful pencil in the world").


    Screw this:


    Weekly project for The Penvirate!



    The front horizontal line of the table's edge is haywire! Now do I realized it! Also, I always hear people saying "push your darks". I did, and my shadows came out looking TOO BLACK. Crap.


    As usual, I welcome any feedback on my drawings!

    Good day,
    Xeon

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    Hey Xeon,

    I've produced my own share of sooty looking artwork!

    I think your only mistake was stopping too soon.

    Lighten up! Literally! Get your kneaded eraser out and play with the values. Just like you "search for lines" and restate lines, you do the same for values--search for them and restate them.

    Take one of these someday and just work the crap out of it until you either get jump off the page realism or destroy the paper trying.

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    Xeon, you're making progress!

    The figure sketch is pretty good, but do me a favor, run to a mirror, and fold your arm, so your hand is touching your shoulder. Now, just look at your arm for a bit - see how forearm and upper arm are pretty much the same length? Now go back to your figure sketch, and see how you drew the upperarms much too short? Watch out for that.

    There's a good tutorial on proportions by cedarseed over on deviantart. I'll look it up...

    These are more guidelines than rules: http://cedarseed.deviantart.com/art/...-Body-15014442

    Every body is different.

    Your biggest weakness right now is value. You're getting it well with the geometric forms, but not with faces - because you're not seeing the forms yet. Go back to Nathan Fowkes' blog, and do some studies, copying his methods. See if it works better this time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamber Parrk View Post
    Just like you "search for lines" and restate lines, you do the same for values--search for them and restate them. Take one of these someday and just work the crap out of it until you either get jump off the page realism or destroy the paper trying.
    Thanks Kamber! I'll do that next time, and erase the values (if it's too dark) with the kneaded eraser again and again till the paper gets worn thin.

    Quote Originally Posted by TASmith View Post
    These are more guidelines than rules: http://cedarseed.deviantart.com/art/...-Body-15014442 Every body is different.

    Your biggest weakness right now is value. You're getting it well with the geometric forms, but not with faces - because you're not seeing the forms yet. Go back to Nathan Fowkes' blog, and do some studies, copying his methods. See if it works better this time.
    Hello Tas! Well, in school now, we're required to render most of our drawings in tone, so I've no choice but to start learning it now.
    I've always been a firm believer of the "if the base of the drawing sucks, no amount of rendering will save it", so I personally always put 99% emphasis on the drawing itself and 1% for rendering.

    I'm still not too sure about the local value and relativity thing, so currently, I just squint and try to render what I see. Recently, I've noticed that reflected light plays a very important role in making the rendering look realistic!

    In a still life setup, if you've 3 boxes, one dark brown, one red and one yellow, it can be confusing to determine their value relativity, especially the dark brown and the red. Add in the lights and shadows and things gets more confusing.

    Thanks for posting Nathan Fowkes' blog; I never knew it existed!
    Drawing of faces is somehow much more different from still life, and I believe one needs a good knowledge of the human head structure (skull, planes etc.) to draw good heads. I've too much to swallow at this time: values, hands, construction etc., so I'll go step by step at a time.

    Good night, guys! I hope Germany wins the world cup! LOL
    Xeon

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    "I've always been a firm believer of the "if the base of the drawing sucks, no amount of rendering will save it", so I personally always put 99% emphasis on the drawing itself and 1% for rendering."

    Drawing the values in isn't the same as rendering. You can plan them and outline them without going into detail. Planning your values is part of the beginning process of drawing.

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    Some real improvement keep going Oh BTW you said your having trouble drawing with the tablet, are you sure you have the drawing area matching your screen? because if not then when u draw a circle it wont be a circle lol its worth checking to see if the force proportions option is on. but it depends if you have a wide screen monitor or not.

    "The whole point of practice is to do it until you can do it right." - dpaint

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    You self protrait is looking better, but you huge problem is values for sure, its almost the same value through out the whole picture, some of it darker but nothing is lighter. Did you get a tablet or are you using the schools tablet. And if you do what program are you using to do so? I like how the hand are turning out. can really tell that they are better built ( something I need to do cause I suck at hands and feet) I like the poses with the manikins but they look pretty stiff, try and do some poses that a little more loose.

    The digis looks really nice I can see a lot of minor mistakes though. I don't know if you can see them. Over all not bad, I don't know how much experiance you have with the tablet. Other then that keep it up!

    The Penvirates:: Xeon_OND :: PermaN00b:: Kamber Parrk :: Cygear ::Diarum

    "Life itself is your teacher, and you are in a state of constant learning." -Bruce Lee

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