Saracen references?
Join the #1 Art Workshop - LevelUpJoin Premium Art Workshop

Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Saracen references?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Mission District, San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    650
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 27 Times in 26 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Saracen references?

    I think this is the right place to post this... just wondering if anybody had access to good reference material for Medieval Arabic/Saracen costume? Aside from watching Ridley Scott's Kingdom of Heaven and taking the upteenth screen shot, that is... LOL.

    Dore's series on the crusades has a few as well, but I was hoping for colors and what not.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  2. #2
    Straight Edge Ryan's Avatar
    Straight Edge Ryan is offline much less of a douchebag in person, I promise Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    711
    Thanks
    206
    Thanked 709 Times in 207 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I know I've got some reference pics around here somewhere, I'll try to dig them up for you.

    In the mean time, I can tell you that Saracen armor was different from the European armor in many ways. Whereas Europeans tended to favor big heavy suits of armor, the Saracens were more into mobility, wearing little to no armor. Higher ranking soldiers in the Saracen army wore mail suits under flowing silk robes, to give the impression that they weren't wearing armor at all. Much of the armor was cloth, turbins were usually wrapped under helmets and I believe many of the colors were brown and/or tan, but I'll look it up to be sure

    Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die

    My Sketchbook
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Straight Edge Ryan For This Useful Post:


  4. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Mission District, San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    650
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 27 Times in 26 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Hey Ryan, thanks for the reply!

    Yeah, I'm somewhat familar with the armor differences between the East and West; it's very distinctive. It's fascinating to consider how the environmental conditions and resources (iron distribution), among other things, effect the general philosophies behind the armor designs.

    I look forward to seeing what you have!

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    887
    Thanks
    957
    Thanked 492 Times in 226 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jasonwclark For This Useful Post:


  7. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    313
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 40 Times in 28 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    For good armor or weapons references Angus McBride is a good artist to look at, here's some of his pictures from the books he did for Osprey-

    Attached Images Attached Images    
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  8. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to dwilliams For This Useful Post:


  9. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    313
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 40 Times in 28 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Here's a picture from a book I checked out from a library once, it's 19th century clothing so it's not really medieval but you might find it useful anyways-

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  10. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to dwilliams For This Useful Post:


  11. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    2,105
    Thanks
    113
    Thanked 515 Times in 187 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    also check out the 4 disc edition of "kingdom of heaven" great extra material, and you know those guys do their research!

    [url=http://galleryonefone.blogspot.com[/url] This would be my gallery in Sweden

    This would be my Pleine Air blog
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to timpaatkins For This Useful Post:


  13. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    661
    Thanks
    50
    Thanked 103 Times in 34 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    as clux deluxe already mentioned, you should check out the osprey publications.. especially "saracen faris" should be interesting for you, since it contains a lot of info and pictures on the saracen culture and military from the 12th century.


    "How do you know you're good enough?" "You know." "What if you're wrong?" "You find out."

    *** Help a CA artist! Visit the Critique Center! ***

    MY HOMEPAGE
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to VirusArtist For This Useful Post:


  15. #9
    Elwell's Avatar
    Elwell is offline Sticks Like Grim Death Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,212
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,666 Times in 5,020 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Osprey books are great, especially the ones with McBride illustrations.


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Elwell For This Useful Post:


  17. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Mission District, San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    650
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 27 Times in 26 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    You guys rule, thanks! Definitely going to hunt down that Osprey book... McBride all the way!

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  18. #11
    Straight Edge Ryan's Avatar
    Straight Edge Ryan is offline much less of a douchebag in person, I promise Level 6 Gladiator: Provocator
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    711
    Thanks
    206
    Thanked 709 Times in 207 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    ok I got some more somewhere but here's some I found, sorry the quality in some of them is bad, but they're good for getting a general idea







    Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die

    My Sketchbook
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  19. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Straight Edge Ryan For This Useful Post:


  20. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Mission District, San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    650
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 27 Times in 26 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    What's driving me crazy about this reasearch is that the term "Saracen" is a general, all-encompasing term that the Europeans were using to pretty much define everyone in the middle-east at that time. It's tough if you want to design something with regional and historical accuracy as that kind of info. is just hard to come by...

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  21. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    313
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 40 Times in 28 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    what region are you looking for in particular?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  22. The Following User Says Thank You to dwilliams For This Useful Post:


  23. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    661
    Thanks
    50
    Thanked 103 Times in 34 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by jubjubjedi View Post
    What's driving me crazy about this reasearch is that the term "Saracen" is a general, all-encompasing term that the Europeans were using to pretty much define everyone in the middle-east at that time. It's tough if you want to design something with regional and historical accuracy as that kind of info. is just hard to come by...
    wich region and time period do you have in mind? i could have pointed you into the direction of the silk road armoury site, but sadly that site seems to be down. it contained alot of detailed information about armours in the middle east and asia (with additional info about migration and culture). maybe the cache option of google will at least get you to the site contruct.

    since i've been researching and reenacting ancient and miedieval history since my teens i've come up with a very simple way to do costume research on the net. just follow the armours, or specifically the exact names and you'll hit a lot of extra information along the way.

    just do a picture search on the following armours and weapons and chances are, that you'll end up on sites explaining clothing and culture of that time too:

    krug
    yushman
    Bakhterets/ Bekhterets
    Bechter
    lamellar armour
    banded armour
    kolontar
    bazuband
    chahar ai ne/ chahar aina
    kolchuga
    shamshir

    or you could search for the following "tribes" or nations that were active back then, like the mongols, armenians, kurds, byzanthians, turks, seljuks, mamluks, tatars, hasars, persians etc.

    If you wanna do it right, you have to research everything about the time period you want to portray. for instance- the mongol conquest alone influenced lifestyle, fashion, military etc of all middle eastern regions. so did the crusades.

    godspeed,

    Etienne


    "How do you know you're good enough?" "You know." "What if you're wrong?" "You find out."

    *** Help a CA artist! Visit the Critique Center! ***

    MY HOMEPAGE
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  24. The Following User Says Thank You to VirusArtist For This Useful Post:


  25. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Mission District, San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    650
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 27 Times in 26 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Thanks for the reply people! I'll definitely try out your recommendations, VirusArtist.
    Specifically, I am looking for any references to the area around Baghdad, or basically anything of ancient Iraqi ancestry. I'm just trying to figure out if the armor or textile designs from that area had any unique characterestics.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  26. #16
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    3,234
    Thanks
    860
    Thanked 847 Times in 457 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  27. The Following User Says Thank You to Qitsune For This Useful Post:


  28. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    661
    Thanks
    50
    Thanked 103 Times in 34 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    well.. the most commonly found armours of the iraq area during the middle ages consisted either of the maille and plates type (yushman, krug, kolontar) or the lamellar/scale type. brigandines could also have been common, but thats just an assumption. monghols and the warriors of india were quite used to those.

    it is to be believed that the majority of armours back then was made of leather or cloth, since those materials were readily available and armours of those types were easy to produce and maintain. metal was hard to process and especially the production of maille was extremely cost and work extensive (an efficient production method for the wire used for maille wasn't invented until the late 15 century). also when taking military tactics of the saracens into account the armours had to be rather light and allow for freedom of movement.

    so researching the different types of lamellar and scale armours as well as padded armour should yield some good results.

    as for ancient middle eastern armours and clothing: most of the middle east was part of the persian empire, so that might be worth checking out. you'll find that a lot of the armours and weaponry used back then didnt differ too much from the stuff the greeks used. the linothorax for instance was very common in the known world back then.. other keywords that might help: xiphos, akinakes.

    as for clothing of both time periods: all i know is that it was supposed to be very colourful. the persian and saracen empire both were at the hight of wealth and technology and that was relfected in their clothing. records from back then (the few there are) tell of brightly coloured garnments that were traded. noone can say that for sure though, since garnments dont tend to survive the centuries as good as metal or leather.

    some links you might find useful:

    http://www.wojmir9.webd.pl/lamelki.htm
    http://monolith.dnsalias.org/~marsar....html#persians
    http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Military/xud_helmet.htm


    "How do you know you're good enough?" "You know." "What if you're wrong?" "You find out."

    *** Help a CA artist! Visit the Critique Center! ***

    MY HOMEPAGE
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  29. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to VirusArtist For This Useful Post:


  30. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Mission District, San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    650
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 27 Times in 26 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Extremely fascinating... how the heck do you know all that?? I have to assume you have studied this a little bit :

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  31. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    661
    Thanks
    50
    Thanked 103 Times in 34 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    just a little


    "How do you know you're good enough?" "You know." "What if you're wrong?" "You find out."

    *** Help a CA artist! Visit the Critique Center! ***

    MY HOMEPAGE
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  32. The Following User Says Thank You to VirusArtist For This Useful Post:


  33. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Belgium, Antwerp
    Posts
    952
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 36 Times in 20 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Musee de l'armee - Les Invalides - Paris, France
    I shot a lot of medieval stuff mostly european but there were also a couple arabian armours.
    14th century









    Last edited by Uziel; August 19th, 2009 at 10:30 AM.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  34. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Uziel For This Useful Post:


Members who have read this thread: 2

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •