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  1. #27
    ALH's Avatar
    ALH is offline one of those tiny little dogs rich people keep in their vaginas
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    That being said, I know we haven't had time to go to in depth for character development, but I was thinking about the idea of stereotypes and playing on the idea of good and evil. To make it a bit more fun and complex try to give it a nice twist on which of the character portraits is evil and which is good:

    Ex. A dark knight with a heart of gold vs. a religious zealot of a paladin (what is the fine line between good and evil when it comes to intentions)
    While this certainly can be done with an individual character, or with some nods towards it... the idea itself is rather tenative for spreading across 8 portraits, it doesnt rock the boat enough. That is to say, the image of a happy overlord is only different from a regular overlord in his expression, because once you change his armour to flowers and fluff he ceases to be a dark overlord. Do this over 6 characters and that one friendly overlord loses his impact.

    Stereotypes are something to be avoided unless being approached at a wild stylistic angle, if people dont get the joke, the concept fails, and youre left with a stereotype.

    To circumvent stereotype a new ground has to be laid. For example. If all of our characters come from a desert environment, that automatically changes things up. Armour has to be lighter, they may carry water with them at all times, have special shoes for dealing with hot sand etc. This gives our characters a common theme.

    It does mean that the characters theoretically will all come from the same place (or at least be travelling through it with their own ways of solving the problem)- but this helps to keep their visual design flow.

    On top of this we place our good/evil/grey area.

    You have brought up the point that good/evil is an opposing viewpoint not a race however - not every evil character has to come from the pits of mordor - your 'bad paladin' fits this nicely.

    On that- We should not try to define 6 different cultures, thats too much work. A 'good' culture and an 'evil' culture and then the characters via each would work well. Attached are two different images, i was going to do a full moodboard of this, but it may not be nessecary right this moment.

    Exploring the nature of good vs evil-

    One is honeycomb. Its structured, even, stable, fair, predictable, protective, pure, sweet, geometric. It has been lovingly crafted.

    One is nerve cells. They are unstable,unpredictable, constantly growing /losing new connections, tangled, confusing, abstract. They are without rules, its anarchy.

    These two systems are opposing both in their visuals and their structure - one may consider itself good and the other evil.

    The honeycomb could be a utopia where everything is beautiful and nothing bad happens within the city walls, or it could be a big brother hellhole where individualism is snubbed, and everyone is forced to follow the rules or be rejected from the commune.

    The nerves could be a vast empire grabbing new land. Leaders are overthrown on a regular basis, and you never know where your next meal is coming from. Or it could be a vast connected individualist network, where everyone has access to the main hub, where you can do what you want, build your own path without 'permission'.

    A character from honeycomb may be a twat or a saint, but either way he is going to suspect and be afraid of a character from nerve.
    Wether we approach good/evil as a paladin from honeycomb, the same paladin if he was from nerve or a honeycomb paladin who is nice, and the same guy who is out for blood' is the matter at hand- though methinks theres room for both, if one culture can simultaneously be good and evil.

    It would be interesting to see both sides of 'honeycomb' though... think propoganda, the allied version of the nazis vs their own intended image. Theres no denying the nazis were evil bastards, but thats not how they portrayed themselves in order to be voted into power...


    EDIT- CK, i cant seem to add you on skype, it tells me you cannot be found :s

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    Last edited by ALH; August 3rd, 2009 at 06:32 AM.
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  3. #28
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    ALH- Plenty to digest in that comment. More on that later.

    nim- Can't wait to see what you get the ball rolling on.

    Personally, I want to move my sketch into a more baroque or high renaissance look.

    Be sure to pick a class asap, the quicker we start dividing the work the faster we can move.

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  4. #29
    ALH's Avatar
    ALH is offline one of those tiny little dogs rich people keep in their vaginas
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    A collection of geometrics and swirlies. Celt, pictish, delicious honeycomb. My knight is gonna be STYLIN'.

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  5. #30
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    ALH- I completely understand your apprehension on stereotypes, but I do believe cliches and stereotypes are very fertile ground for reinterpretation and new ideas. Don't get me wrong, I am all for creating something absolutely new and different then what has come before, but you are just as dependent on introducing it in a visually compelling way as in playing with stereotypes. I've seen all sorts of imagined stuff that just falls flat, as if the creator just picked the most skewed elements possible and put them together to be "creative". It all tends to get lost in the mass of other "creative" stuff produced by illustrators. Visuals, in the end, are what make or break the idea. By the way, since you started the team, you get first pick of class.

    blackcherry- skype seems to be just like any other messenger, with a few additions, if you download it and make an account let me know.

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  6. #31
    ALH's Avatar
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    Dont get me wrong, im not at all against using the base framework, just a little cautious about trying to be 'ironic' with stereotypes instead of like..actually trying to change them, or thats the impression i got? I've tried that before and its bit me on the ass.

    TBH im struggling like crazy to do a knight here. I really wish i could come at this with a clean slate, but its only been a month since i finished Tweetlord, and i was overworked on it so its still all in my system. Instead of a world of possibilities i just see a bunch of walls, jamming my flow. Its really hard to distance this particular high fantasy from that particular high fantasy even if this is miles apart in terms of style...and im not even that big a fan of high fantasy ;_;.

    I wouldnt have signed on to the CHOW if i knew what the topic was beforehand, but im still up for the challenge and so long as i distance myself from bloody medieval armour things should be ok.

    As first i claim mage/spell caster/potion brewer. Wether s/he will be human or not im not sure, its something ill have to play with, but s/he will hopefully be some degree of crazy and possibly semi nude.

    EDIT- its likely whatever i do will change from base mage btw, i may crossover into something like creature handler/summoner if thats an acceptable variation? Anything to avoid treading over old ground. If anyone can actually think of a relevant class for me which is NOT warrior/thief/ranger/cleric/mage it would help a lot.

    Last edited by ALH; August 3rd, 2009 at 01:52 PM.
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  7. #32
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    Yeah, go crazy on the sub-class. As long as magic/voodoo/mojo is their primary means of support I think you're fine. Just try not to overlap into healer territory to much.

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  8. #33
    ALH's Avatar
    ALH is offline one of those tiny little dogs rich people keep in their vaginas
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    Quote Originally Posted by CKLamb View Post
    Just try not to overlap into healer territory to much.
    Oh dont worry about that, im a fighter not a lover

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  9. #34
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    blackcherry- I think you're next, fighter, thief, or healer?

    BTW-MSN: lambck@yahoo.com

    Last edited by {CKL}; August 3rd, 2009 at 02:42 PM.
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  10. #35
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    On the subject of stereotypes, I donít think we should TOTALLY avoid them as I think including some elements of a stereotype image help to successfully portray messages about the character to the viewer, whether thatís through expression ,colours, clothing, features and other elements.

    Iíve downloaded Skype now. My contact name is: jellybeanleo (yes there was some on my desk at the time!)

    Iíll add everyone now so we can communicate.

    Iíve also started on the knight. Sketched him last night, going to scan my drawing in now and go from there so Iíll post more on that later. Looking forward to seeing everyone's work. I like your CKLamb, its very different to mine. This could be interesting!

    Iím all for making a start on the actual thing soon, as Iím travelling to visit family on Friday and may not have continuous access to a computer for a few days, though I will definitely have my sketchbook and I will be able to keep up contact over them days through the forum but itíll be off a different computer so there probably wonít be msn or Skype.

    I should get the bulk of the drawing done in that time so when Iím back I can get them on here for you guys to comment and go from there.

    Aside from that, any thoughts on a common theme/setting for the characters? On the subjects of characters Iíd be interested in exploring some spell casters, Iím thinking along the lines of wizard Ė Necromancer to start with and... fairies maybe? Depends what sort of overall theme weíre going for I guess.

    Oh yeah, another thing I was wondering about the whole good-evil thing. Is it a good/evil version of the particular character or of the type of character? Does that make sense? This may have already been answered so I will check the brief again also.

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  11. #36
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    I believe it is a light/dark version of the same character. I'm approaching it as if these characters had a defining moment in their lives and the portraits depict the two possible outcomes.

    BTW: Blackcherry is on the healer class.

    Nim- Fighter or Thief?

    ALH- Don't get to high strung on it, you'll get yourself into a creative block. Just do what comes out natural and you can go from there.

    Last edited by {CKL}; August 3rd, 2009 at 03:24 PM.
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  12. #37
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    Fighter please, unless you have a strong preference to that class yourself?

    Ill get my progress posted asap, spent most of the day stuck in traffic trying to get to the airport :/

    My Sketchbook
    Team CHOW 2 ALH, Blackcherry, Nimzicki, CKLamb
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  13. #38
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    Alright, that makes me the stinky thief. Sweet!

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  14. #39
    ALH's Avatar
    ALH is offline one of those tiny little dogs rich people keep in their vaginas
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    No worries, ill bitch and moan til the cows come home but still keep at it, and end up talking myself into having some fun too.

    Rough one, saved it when it was small. I would usually do a bunch of variations, but i've had to get myself over the 'omg not fantasy again' hump today. Actually looking forwards to exploring it again now


    We are the beast knights who say NI!

    Warming to this kind of character, thinking of changing from mage to barbarian version of steve irwin- punches bears out cold, puts a harness on em, rides into battle and uses their babies as a pullover.

    edit. ok. his legs are like..yeah. gonna tweak him, i was going to leave it as crappy since its 'just a warm up' but thats no excuse, it should never be an excuse.

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    Last edited by ALH; August 3rd, 2009 at 04:54 PM.
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