Chow 167 :: Saladin
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  1. #1
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    Chow 167 :: Saladin


    ROUND #167:: Saladin
    DESCRIPTION

    Saladin

    Historical research, boys and girls! Meet Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn - known in the west much more often as "Saladin". Military Commander, Conqueror, and ultimately a Sultan, he trounced the Franks quite a few times during the crusades!

    This weeks round is a historical round, but there's tons of room to take this guy. We don't mind if you fantasy him up a little bit... he's a legend as much as he is a man! Mostly this round is about getting into some non-western history (though they did overlap obviously) and design and creating a compelling design for a man who was quite compelling as it was!

    Keep him at least referenced to his time period, but not strict. (Just like how most people now imagine Richard the Lionheart or Charlemagne a lot differently from how their time period would portray them, Saladin has grown beyond the historical figure).

    However, you're gonna do a bit of research! But we don't require you to provide proof - we'll see it well enough in your design!

    Here's some sites to get you started.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin

    http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...518809/Saladin

    http://historymedren.about.com/libra...lwwsaladin.htm

    There's also a bunch of movies with him in it, most recently 'Kingdom of Heaven' comes to mind, but also apparently an egyptian movie in the 60's named after him. A quick you tube search would help you out!

    Remember, this man was considered a hero on both sides - even those fighting against him respected him and saw him as a very chivalric man!

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    Last edited by Aly Fell; July 21st, 2009 at 05:34 PM.
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  2. #2
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    yaaay! ^.^

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    Really quick...And he's got that asian look in everything
    And so I hope for other deadline extension since I'll be out of town((

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    maaan... stop giving cool historical characters! I have work to do!

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  5. #5
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    I'm in again, I'm going to try and fantasy him up on a horse (gulp) with some kind of huge cape and hopefully still be somewhat historicity accurate, oh and a beard

    May Strength Be Kind and Courage Gentle
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    im gonna give it a try and participate for once, I've been lurking around for to long

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  7. #7
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    Here we go I guess. Pretty simple (no horsey!), shining armor and sh... Any crits would be an instant help since it's being made in a rush.

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  8. #8
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    Volj: My major crit right now would be that he is reeeeeally wide. His shoulders are already twice as broad as they should be for his head, and then he just gets wider the lower you go. :] Focus on the anatomy first, build the armour on top, then the clothes, then the shield and weaponry. I think you're getting lost in the bulk of everything, right now.

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  10. #9
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    Awww, man.

    Wish I could do this one. I'll be in San Diego all week.

    Love the topic, though.

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    This is probably one of those times I should hold my tongue and not say anything...
    As an American directly affected by Muslim terrorist attacks, gonna have to pass on this one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bakadoodle View Post
    This is probably one of those times I should hold my tongue and not say anything...
    As an American directly affected by Muslim terrorist attacks, gonna have to pass on this one.
    Yes, this is probably one of those times.

    Considering that we're dealing with a historical figure that is 800 years removed from the current time period, was very well respected by his 'christian' counterparts, ruled as the legitimate and legal sultan of several countries in the area during a time period where the muslim world was incredibly advanced and cultured, the idea that you would lump him with current-day muslim extremists BAFFLES me. The only connection is that they share a religion, and probably not even the same sect of said religion!

    If studying muslim history is what irks you on this subject, then by all means, do a fantasy version. Though personally I can't understand why people wouldn't want to study cultures beyond their own - *especially* cultures that they find themselves opposed to, since we can't understand anything we don't attempt to. That being said, you'll understand about as much about current day muslims from studying saladin as you would about current day americans by studying Charlemagne or Columbus. You'll get something but only if you know the context!

    If you don't wish to partake, fine, no one has ever claimed that you have to. But I WON'T stand for such glib racist/religious commentary. I wouldn't allow people in Chow to make similar statements about the christian church, and I don't see how Islam is any different, in that respect. There are enough horrible people in the world for the churches to share equally!

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  14. #12
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    Count me in.

    Tremendous respect for Saladin, the man who never broke his word and earned respect amongst people who barely regarded Muslims as human.

    My CA sketchbook thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by bakadoodle View Post
    This is probably one of those times I should hold my tongue and not say anything...
    As an American directly affected by Muslim terrorist attacks, gonna have to pass on this one.
    You are right. You shouldn't have said anything.

    You are judging an entire region, history, and culture by the worst in that culture. I'm sorry for your loss, but your baseless xenophobia absolutely sickens me.

    *edit
    Ugh, sorry for almost getting roped in, Daestwen. Chow shouldn't be the worst of the lounge. I'll participate. Badass topic.

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  17. #14
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    Saladin hmmm, if i can find time I'll give it a try.

    Check out my sketchbook: Draw or Die

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    Quote Originally Posted by bakadoodle View Post
    This is probably one of those times I should hold my tongue and not say anything...
    As an American directly affected by Muslim terrorist attacks, gonna have to pass on this one.
    wow. I should "probably hold my tongue and not say anything", but STFU you racist creep. oops, sorry?

    (edit: I'm so sorry Daestwen I just could not hold it in, if my comment bothers you feel free to delete, I hope I didn't cause you any trouble...)

    Last edited by petitemistress; July 20th, 2009 at 05:40 PM.
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  19. #16
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    OK chaps, lets not derail this thread. This is an art challenge not a mud wrestling match! Play nicely. Saladin is a fantastic historical figure... go draw...

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  20. #17
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    Ahh, ive just spend a few hours reading about this guy.
    GREAT stories... as a historyfreak im wondering how I could have missed out on him

    My first start anywayz

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  21. #18
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    So about that CHOW - because I'm not an idiot, nor a xenophobe, I think this topic is beyond kickass. So tossing me hat in (or at least I will try!)


    Volj - Way to hop in first. Daestwen touched on some of your anatomy issues, but I would also caution you to remember that Saladin was not Asian, he was Middle Eastern (born in Tikrit, Iraq) so make sure you are getting your historical indicators right - your first sketch looked more like a Mongol to me than an Arab. Read the wiki entry Daestwen linked if you are unsure about the character, it is there to help you.

    Some historical reference from Braun and Schneider's History of Costume:
    600(ish) - 1100s Mid-Eastern dress and a somewhat contemporary illumination of Saladin

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    Contemporary Military Tech

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    And some links to art with costume/design reference:
    http://www.geocities.com/anahita_whitehorse/heaven.html
    http://home.earthlink.net/~lilinah/T...Etextiles.html

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  23. #19
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    Okay. I got home early from work, bags are packed. Decided to play around. Couldn't pass up this chow. I won't be able to finish, for CHOW deadline, but I'll probably paint it on my own at some point.

    If I were to go ahead with colors. Definitely last moments of sunset, right before prayer. I'm not familiar with the prayer customs, I know they kneel, but ... just from a color-mood stand-point ... lots of warm oranges, pinks, reds. That sort of thing.

    Edit: I just realized that it looks like he's saluting. Not what I"m going for. More like, he's about to take off his helmet and kneel. If I had more time, I'd think it thru more.

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  24. #20
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    Ah yes, blatant racism, xenophobia and ignorance. The breakfast of champions.
    I'm in, but I have a serious lack of time so I'll probably won't finish.

    Tuner people, not Turner.

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  25. #21
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    Absolutely awesome topic, I'm really looking forward to this one!

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  26. #22
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    Great topic! Here's my initial sketch
    Name:  Saladin.jpg
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    Thumbs up

    I like the tight letters and the hooks in his name thesaint, although it looks like "Yusuf ibn Ayyub" was added later as it doesn't have the same flare. The first half has great character, and it matches his expression well. They both have a nice crisp boldness. I'll admit I got a bit of a thrill when I saw your sketch, I was hoping to see some calligraphy sneak in to these pieces

    You may want to check the spelling - admittedly my Arabic is really rusty but I thought his first name had a harder H. Some of your letters are also missing their diacritical points.

    Still, a nice piece, and that goes for the actual character as well, I look forward to seeing the rest of him!

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  29. #24
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    Thanks Cartogriffi, honestly I have never written anything in Arabic... I just copied the letters, but CHOW is for learning, and I'll try to learn a little of Arabic caligraphy for this one! Thanks for the tips! Soon I'll post the caligraphy again (I'll do a little research this time)

    Here is a sketch of the scene that I'll probably do.
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    I've never fiddled around too much with Historical figures, but this sounds like something I could learn from. soooo...

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    Jason Snair - As a muslim I feel obliged to enlighten You about prayer(salat) positions. I hope it will be helpfull

    also in arabic his name looks like that: صلاح الدين يوسف بن أيوب

    Last edited by sepu; July 21st, 2009 at 05:22 AM.
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  33. #27
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    daestwen
    Many thx! That really helped. Checked with mannequin frame...He's still a bit more than 8heads tall, but not as if it would become trouble...

    JessiBean
    I've found an old illustrated encyclopedia about medieval times, and, well, there seems a lot of similar outfit elements (especially military) even with Turkish ones, not only asian. That is distracting...

    Messy. Trying not to get lost in details...

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    i'm not sure if besides a fantasy aproximation to Saladin is allowed a sci-fi one.
    Anyway here is my first sketch. If not i will try another thing.
    Sorry for my english, as always.

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    I`m in
    really nice topic

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    @Jessibean, Great reference! but like all reference you have to be careful with it. I hate sounding like a know it all beardy but i love history and i love the history of the Crusades and the referance you looks a bit wrong to me the picture on the top left look like 16th or 17th century Ottaman turks wrond period wrong region! The contemporary image of Saladin is wearing 15thC european plate armour, The Templars looks spot on but the Franks are too early, more 1st crusade than 3rd crusade

    Again sorry for being such a beardy tit i can't help it!!

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