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    Hmmm... I am a christian, though not a perfect example of a good christian, hardly the brimstone and fire category...but it just strikes me strange how a lot of westerners like to shit on Christ and christianity but don't have the balls to mock other religions in the same way... could it be because we christians don't have a tendency to declare holy war in this day and age? I mean, if you wanna be cool and show the world how intellectually superior you are and you think religion is a big pile of crap, why pick on only one religion? Why not go all out man?

    As for being a christian and whether or not I'm an idiot for believing..take a look at it from this point of view...If Jesus and Christianity and God is nothing but a fallacy, I would have spent my life believing in something..and you would have been right...
    That's all.
    But if Jesus and God and Christianity turns out to exist and be true...well,
    one of us is screwed eh?

    As for the Jesus painting..it all depends on if you are a believer or not. I like the power it has, the way the details were painted...and the fact that Jesus' hands look damn strong and powerful...much like a seasond carpenters hands would look like.
    Although I do agree that he could have presented it in such a way as to avoid getting that "buttsecks" comment.. Though it is clear that he wanted to present a moment of tender forgiveness...the painter should have known that for some people, any tender moment between men would be seen as gay by some people...

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    Muslims have no humor, buddists are just giggling all the time and who the hell understands Hinduism?

     

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    Most people who think that a tender moment between two men is gay, are infact christians... =p

    Christians get mocked more than other religions, that is true. Perhaps that is because it is harder to mock a religion we know little about, such as Islam or Hinduism? Interesting point though, I say we need to do more research and mock all religions equally

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by the ANGRY filipino View Post
    As for being a christian and whether or not I'm an idiot for believing..take a look at it from this point of view...If Jesus and Christianity and God is nothing but a fallacy, I would have spent my life believing in something..and you would have been right...
    That's all.
    But if Jesus and God and Christianity turns out to be exist and be true...well,
    one of us is screwed eh?
    arrogant shit like that -might- have something to do with the "mockery", dude...

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    Quote Originally Posted by the ANGRY filipino View Post
    If Jesus and Christianity and God is nothing but a fallacy, I would have spent my life believing in something..and you would have been right...
    That's all.
    But if Jesus and God and Christianity turns out to be exist and be true...well,
    one of us is screwed eh?
    That's precisely the reason I pray daily to the Great Spaghetti Monster. Worst case scenario I waste a chunk of my life but at least I won't have to endure eternity in some pasta-based hell if it turns out He actually exists.

     

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    "Christ of Saint John of the Cross" resides at the St Mungo Museum of Religious Life and Art in Glasgow.

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    I tried that but I get so much dreams of interference from sorcerers etc..

    I had a really nice one:

    "We where on the island at a diner outside in the moonlight it reminded me of a sixties theme or the old monkey island series, the colors was rich, dark blue and gold because of the lanterns outside and there was that dreamy mood in the air with faint chimes of music sounding for a moonlight diner atmosphere. The table was cheery with all kinds of foe woman and men, eating and feasting, I saw the waiter come by wearing a funny red cylindrical hat with a tussle speaking to one of the men at the table. This man was dressed in a brownish suit and was the cheer of the party, He and the waiter shared a quick joke or funny phrase, the man laughed with such intent as to show the waiter what he's eating, I could see the cheese and spinach in his mouth, I guess it was some kind of popular dining gesture there to show the waiter what your eating.

    The waiter walks off for a while, I seem to know the fat man, or I am guided to follow his actions. We move to a wide garden chair close buy next to a lantern while the waiter returns. The waiter sits down a large silver serving tray. He lifts the silver covering and exclaims: "Some fine monkey for dinner".

    I look at the monkey, In the tray sit's one little black monkey, still much alive but messed up looking, just sitting there, staring with big shiny eyes, not moving, I stare at the monkey and hear the monkey speak. It said something I can't remember but it was rather shocking and deterring. The man on the bench winks at me from the side as to say... “Watch this”.. I look back while the rest of the dining table has come to observe the new serving suggestion, the monkey with the same terrible horrific small urgent voice and terrible eyes exclaims: "No world fire, No world fire..."

    Everyone then decided they'd rather not have monkey that night.

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    "and who the hell understands Hinduism"

    I'd like to be Hindu. Then I could rag on all my friends - "Man, you know that guy's coming back a dog, the lazy bastard!"

    We could do a thread of what we'd all reincarnate into.

     

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    I wasn't familiar with Blackshear before this, so thanks. Not sure about the spiritual stuff, but I love his horror work!

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    Quote Originally Posted by the ANGRY filipino View Post
    As for being a christian and whether or not I'm an idiot for believing..take a look at it from this point of view...If Jesus and Christianity and God is nothing but a fallacy, I would have spent my life believing in something..and you would have been right...
    That's all.
    But if Jesus and God and Christianity turns out to be exist and be true...well,
    one of us is screwed eh?
    We are all screwed any way! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumen...nt_revelations

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poshspice View Post
    I wasn't familiar with Blackshear before this, so thanks. Not sure about the spiritual stuff, but I love his horror work!
    Now that's what I was talking about!


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    Quote Originally Posted by the ANGRY filipino View Post
    As for being a christian and whether or not I'm an idiot for believing..take a look at it from this point of view...If Jesus and Christianity and God is nothing but a fallacy, I would have spent my life believing in something..and you would have been right...
    That's all.
    But if Jesus and God and Christianity turns out to be exist and be true...well,
    one of us is screwed eh?
    First off, Pascal's Wager. I also never understood that mere belief would be so instrumental in securing one's place in the afterlife. You'd think Jesus would just want you to be a nice guy.

    As for the Jesus painting..it all depends on if you are a believer or not.
    (the rest of this comment is not directed at you) No, it doesn't actually. I'm an atheist and I think it's great. I understand the story of Christ and what his eternal 'job' was supposed to be and that picture illustrates it quite nicely. Just because the theme is theism doesn't mean I recoil in horror at the sight of Odin or Hephaestus or something. That's why I started off this thread by trying to steer it in a novel direction; tsnipes starts all his threads off mentioning how he or other artists draw their inspiration from god. Personally, I believe that's a load of crap. But 4000 threads later and his topics have yet to carry on an intelligent conversation because people feel the need to say so every single time.

    I don't know if it's the same people over and over again or if it's a bunch of people who are unfamiliar with tsnipe's posts, but I thought it would be a neat thing to try out talking about the art/artist he was posting and not say for the BILLIONTH FUCKING TIME that

    "lolz artists do it themselves."

    Yes. I know. You know. Most of us know. We get it. Maybe we can ignore the Jesus parts of tsnipe's threads and start talking about the art instead so it doesn't get locked within 3 pages. Besides, whatever the fuck that artist is doing it's working out pretty good for him, don't you think?

    Now I'm not saying "oh you can't criticize religion." because you can. You can make fun of Christians all you want. You can tell everyone to their face that god has no part in the creation of their art at any time whatsoever, and I'd agree with you.

    But after hearing it so many times, I'd just like to talk about the pretty pictures, ok?

     

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    Bravo Jason, you make a lot of good points, I agree that the whole "god, lol!" thing is annoying.

    Still, he didn't post about the painting, he posted about god being needed to make art.

    And everyone who has used a computer should be fully aware of the fact that any mention of god on the internet, will stir up a shitstorm in all directions. It is sadly the way the online world works, religion is a touchy subject and people feel a compelling urge to be smart about it. If tsnipes feels the need to mention it in his topics, no-one should feel the need to be surprised when the first ten replies are "god? lolz"...

    It is tiring to watch, but then the world of messageboards, atleast places like the lounge, is endless repetition of unnecessary behaviour and very little evolution of opinions or manners. Sadly, I think the only way this will stop happening is if people stop posting about their religious beliefs in a way that can, in any way, be seen as "holier than thou".

     

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    @ Poshspice and Jason Rainville, Well said. Yeah, I foolishly thought this thread was going to be a discussion of Blackshear's art and methods. I find him to be interesting. I clearly had the wrong idea, hence the Dali.
    It's really hard to argue about "Avida Dollars"

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by squidmonk3j View Post
    arrogant shit like that -might- have something to do with the "mockery", dude...
    dude, that was just a quip from my part...nothing arrogant about that.
    if people who mock christians expect us to put up with it, then they should
    put up with what we have to say sometimes...

    hardly anything arrogant about what i wrote dude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the ANGRY filipino View Post
    dude, that was just a quip from my part...nothing arrogant about that.
    if people who mock christians expect us to put up with it, then they should
    put up with what we have to say sometimes...

    hardly anything arrogant about what i wrote dude.
    It's arrogant that you think your religion is any more valid than the thousands of others that exist. It's also a little arrogant to assume that people haven't already considered Pascal's Wager... before effortlessly deconstructing it.

    As for tsnipes threads... I think people respond with sarcasm because he tends to state subjective beliefs as fact.

    Last edited by Man Made God; June 12th, 2009 at 01:02 PM.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by kab View Post
    Sadly, I think the only way this will stop happening is if people stop posting about their religious beliefs in a way that can, in any way, be seen as "holier than thou".
    Eeh...The problem is the Abrahamic religions assert their absolute correctness, and absolute incorrectness of everything else in such....well absolute terms. Monotheism is an evolution of the religious impulse meant to create inclusion, and by extension, exclusion. While most Christians will, in the interest of civility not try to seem, "holier than thou" despite their belief system completely reinforcing, and through "witnessing" actively encouraging such behavior. I think Christians get a larger dose of mockery on boards and stuff, because 1.)the western world is most familiar with it, and it's history (which doesn't take much digging into to find something that makes you scratch your head) and 2.)In the "real world" I can't say I've witnessed much, to their face, christian bashing. In fact it seems like when ever there is someone out there getting in peoples faces about their religious beliefs...it's Christians. Never had a Hindu knock on my door at 8 am on a Saturday and be harder to chase away then a vacuum salesman. Never been invited to a ceremony at a Buddhist temple, and had my decision not to go obviously insult the person doing the inviting. In fact the only people that have ever reacted in an angry way to my atheism...is Christians, particularly the evangelicals. I imagine because their belief system asserts that it's their failure that I'm not joyfully joining their flock. I live in the American South, otherwise known as the bible belt, so my experience with Christianity might be a little more on the intense side than a lot of other folks from more religiously diverse areas

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    Also, I wrote what i wrote because people instantly started doing some chirstian bashing and mocking christianity.
    If Mr. Blackshear feels the need to pray before he paints, so what?
    How different is that from any of our own personal "prep" phases as we do our own works? Some people just get straight to work, some need to research a ton of stuff before they paint, some drink beer or smoke pot or whatever...
    If Mr. Blackshear said he needed to do yoga or light incense to Buddha before he painted, would people have written the same crap they did in this thread?
    No, they would have just said, "Oh, well he is a spiritual dude".
    If Mr. Blackshear said he needed to roll out his prayer rug and pray to ALlah before he paints, no one would have said anything degrading about him or his beliefs.
    I'm just saying, picking on Christians and what they believe in seems to be a cool thing to do nowadays.
    I'm not a brimstone and fire kind of christian. I don't think you'll go to hell for actually enjoying sex, I don't even believe in what more conservative christians believe in.
    I'm just saying, if you're gonna be an "intellectual shining light" , dude, how come you stop only at denouncing Christians..I get it, you don't believe in what we believe in.
    If this post was all about," hey ca people, come to christ and be a christian", fine, you can work your mouth off mocking the poster or the religion. But This thread was just simply stating the fact that a certain christian artist needs to pray or commune with the God that he believes in before he paints..no one converting you in this thread people.
    So why can't you just let it be, some people are christians, why the need to mock it?
    Christianity is a way of life for some people, just like buddhism or islam....but I don't see anybody here mocking islam or Buddhism... cause that would raise a hornets nest , since its uncool to be politically incorrect. You'd be afraid of being called a racist if you did mock islam.
    But mocking christians seems to be easier for you big fellas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Man Made God View Post
    It's arrogant that you think your religion is any more valid than the thousands of others that exist. It's also a little arrogant to assume that people haven't already considered Pascal's Wager... before effortlessly deconstructing it.

    As for tsnipes threads... I think people respond with sarcasm because he tends to state subjective beleifs as fact.

    listen here, how old are you anyway?
    I never said anything about my religion being more valid. Did you even read what I wrote? I just said that out of all the thousands of valid religions, you brave boys just seem to be able to focus on bashing christians and christianity.

    If somebody here said he believed in Odin, you would be like " Oh shit, that's so cool man, your so spiritual"
    If I said I believed in Jesus Christ, you'd be like"
    Oh shit, your a fool"
    but what's the difference between believing in one over the other?
    why can't you just respect that some people believe in a God and just Sh#t the F up and not insult them when they weren't even trying to bother you in the first place?
    Isn't what you are doing a form of discrimination? I respect your beliefs and I find no need to insult you for them, why can't you just return the favor?

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    Jason - Tsnipes's posts aren't about art...the "art" part is just memetic mimicry, and should be revealed as such at every single turn. Your suggestion of "never mind the words, just look at the pretty pictures" is dangerous...the context matters.

    It's not about repeating "lolz artists do it themselves", it's about stating the presence of a wolf in sheep's clothing. Again and again.

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    C'mon chaps, 'just look at the pretty pictures!' See, I found a nice big one of King Kong!

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    @Poshspice, I love that piece. Do you think it is Gouache or acrylic?

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by squidmonk3j View Post
    Jason - Tsnipes's posts aren't about art...the "art" part is just memetic mimicry, and should be revealed as such at every single turn. Your suggestion of "never mind the words, just look at the pretty pictures" is dangerous...the context matters.
    The only people susceptible to tsnipe's words are those who are already of the Christian persuasion, and even without his posts they probably have already come to the conclusion that their actions are in some way guided.

    As for the wolf in sheep's clothing, I really don't see any atheist converting on the spot or validating tsnipe's notion of "We're the instruments and He's the musician." If christians are conned into believing that it's all a gift from god, tsnipes isn't to blame for that one.

    EDIT: though I really wish he'd reply one of these days. Doesn't seem all that intellectually honest to stir shit up all the time then let everyone else duke it out.

    And that king kong is rocking my jungle.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Rainville View Post
    The only people susceptible to tsnipe's words are those who are already of the Christian persuasion, and even without his posts they probably have already come to the conclusion that their actions are in some way guided.

    As for the wolf in sheep's clothing, I really don't see any atheist converting on the spot or validating tsnipe's notion of "We're the instruments and He's the musician." If christians are conned into believing that it's all a gift from god, tsnipes isn't to blame for that one.
    How many times do you suppose this has been asserted the past two millennia?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poshspice View Post
    C'mon chaps, 'just look at the pretty pictures!' See, I found a nice big one of King Kong!
    if this is the stuff he comes up after praying, then lets leave him be.
    He can take a bath in jello and put a trombone playing monkey on his head before he paints for all I care, as long as whatever he does inspires him to create art like this..

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    Quote Originally Posted by the ANGRY filipino View Post
    listen here, how old are you anyway?
    I never said anything about my religion being more valid. Did you even read what I wrote? I just said that out of all the thousands of valid religions, you brave boys just seem to be able to focus on bashing christians and christianity.

    If somebody here said he believed in Odin, you would be like " Oh shit, that's so cool man, your so spiritual"
    If I said I believed in Jesus Christ, you'd be like"
    Oh shit, your a fool"
    but what's the difference between believing in one over the other?
    why can't you just respect that some people believe in a God and just Sh#t the F up and not insult them when they weren't even trying to bother you in the first place?
    Isn't what you are doing a form of discrimination? I respect your beliefs and I find no need to insult you for them, why can't you just return the favor?
    The second that you used Pascal's Wager in an argument, you implied that your religion is plausible, and that others aren't, otherwise you would have mentioned them.

    Nobody is discriminating against Christianity, I think most gods are on the same level of silly, although some of the stories are definately more interesting. "Spiritual" is a dirty word for me, people just tend to use it as a buzzword when talking about something supernatural.

    Quote Originally Posted by the ANGRY filipino View Post
    if this is the stuff he comes up after praying, then lets leave him be.
    He can take a bath in jello and put a trombone playing monkey on his head before he paints for all I care, as long as whatever he does inspires him to create art like this..
    Yeah, and i'm pretty glad this thread came up, some nice art here.

     

  45. #59
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    Regarding the artwork...I think the sentiment is nice. The idea of forgiving even the person who nailed you to the cross is a powerful one, even if it is one of the rarer traits that seem to appear from Christians. I do find it kind of a weird anachronism that the guy holding the hammer and nail is a clean shaven white guy, and has blue jeans and a tee shirt on. This confuses the symbolism a bit for me. It seems like he's supposed to be an "everyman" and ignoring the obvious objection to everyman being an American looking 30 something white man, does this imply that we all crucified Jesus? I realize the doctrine is that Jesus died for our sins...but why is that something he has to forgive us for? "Died for our sins" is definitely different in intention than "nailed him to the cross." I suppose the theological assumption is that the two are one in the same. That our sins, and thus "us," nailed Jesus to the cross, and that he forgives us for that. However wasn't that his destiny all along? How is it our fault, and thus something to be forgiven if it was something that was going to happen anyway? Not only was it going to happen, but it was his purpose. However I suppose all that is dependent on your interpretation of Gods will, predestination, the divinity of Jesus, etc...I just have a hard time resolving the jeans and tee shirt as anything other than a attempt to appeal to a modern audience and the hammer and nail as some kind of accusation.

    Ia Ia Cthulhu Fthagn

    The Sketchbook Lives AGAIN!

    Darkergreen, My environment, and concept art portfolio

    "Its all Fish-Men in the end anyway" -Sara, my wife

    "Whenever one finds oneself inclined to bitterness, it is a sign of emotional failure."
    Bertrand Russell
     

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  47. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by squidmonk3j View Post
    How many times do you suppose this has been asserted the past two millennia?
    Historians Fallacy. Just because it happened before doesn't mean it will happen again. (despite what Starbuck says)

    Edit: actually never mind. I'll let myself out of this thread before I derail it any more.

     

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