Tiananmen Square; 20 years after.
 
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    Tiananmen Square; 20 years after.

    So most of you will know that this month will be 20 years since the Tianamen Square protest, where thousands of students from Beijing gathered within the square calling for reform within the government, along with similar gatherings across China. Following the death of Hu Yaobang, a politically progressive politician. This galvanised the surrounding community, who chimed in with the words of the students, whose demands became increasingly radical (within the eyes of the government).

    The response from the Chinese government?... to send in the army, which resulted in masses (in all probability thousands, but that information is withheld) of deaths of civilians. International response was almost universal in condemnation of the governments actions (apart from North Korea, Cuba, etc.), along with this image becoming iconic of resistance against corrupt authority;

    Tiananmen Square; 20 years after.

    And yet even today it's government tries to wipe the event from the history books and from the memory of it's people. With widespread censorship of the affair, from news reports, newspapers, to even the internet. (Though the English language Wikipedia article of the event is no longer banned from China since April. Though the Chinese language one still is.)

    Last edited by Kagemusha22; June 3rd, 2009 at 09:10 PM.
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    The only part of the video i have seen is right where that picture was taken... watching the tank roll up to that guy and him just standing tall.... god it sends shivers up my spine.

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    I always wondered what the dude had in the carrier bag..external storage for his giant testicles?

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    Yeah i was going to make a comment about how huge balls he mustve had but i decided it wasn't really appropriate lol

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    That shot is legendary. I've always loved that one.

    "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
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    The Chinese government is powerless to change one thing: Tiananmen Square will never again be a monument to Communism.
    I remember reading an article directly following this event, which described how some of the student protesters saved a few of the Chinese soldiers from burning to death in their tanks and it inspired my crude drawing below. Those students were bigger than the Communist government and they taught some important lessons on that day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtZealot View Post
    That shot is legendary. I've always loved that one.
    I used to have a T-shirt of that in remembrance of the Tiananmen Square Massacre back when I was a teenager. The front of the shirt had that image and I loved it for the man's sheer bravery. Powerful symbolism against tyranny.

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    most locals i have met in china are unaware of this event

    Last edited by kingshaj; June 4th, 2009 at 05:01 PM.
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    photos of the protest - http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/125283,21,1,pokaz.html

    Here in Poland it's also the 20th anniversary of the first (partly) free election after the fall of comunism.

    Last edited by thirdeye; June 4th, 2009 at 10:40 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingshaj View Post
    most locals i have me in china are unaware of this event
    that's because any in depth discussion of this event here are banned.
    Records of what really happened here 20 years ago have been covered up.
    Most 20 something chinese don't know what went on and as a result, don't really give a shit about it and even get peeved at foreigners who try to ask them about it.

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    That man was probably executed.

    R.I.P.

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    No idea what happened to the guy, but I did end up seeing the video to go with that image a year or so ago. Always saw the picture but the video was brand new to me. Serious cajones.



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    I remember after seeing this on TV when I was a teen that (apparently) the man in the tank was the brother of the one standing in front of it. Reguardless, the news reports was one thing, the testament of my high school english teacher had an even bigger impact.
    Receiving the bill for the bullet that killed your offspring... That's trash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the ANGRY filipino View Post
    that's because any in depth discussion of this event here are banned.
    Records of what really happened here 20 years ago have been covered up.
    Most 20 something chinese don't know what went on and as a result, don't really give a shit about it and even get peeved at foreigners who try to ask them about it.
    That makes me sad, forgetting the mistakes of the past is the first steps to repeating them. Not that this information is new to me, but it is especially worrying when considering the fact that China is on course to become a world superpower, and yet it's government still vows that it will not adopt a democratic system.

    (Or am I wrong here? A BBC2 documentary last night explained that the government is still an oligarchy.)

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    the ANGRY filipino:

    yes of course:
    so, in an orwellian sense it never really happened and may not be worth celebrating yet....

    as much as commemorating.

    it is an event that, for the time being anyway, only happened in the minds of foreigners .

    as an aside :
    i think the chinese get annoyed or angry around this topic is because they feel a comparison is being made between their country and the country the foreigner is from... and their respective attempts at democracy.
    and the "know it all" attitude that all westerners have about world politics...and often chinese politics.


    and they often are surprised by the fact that we distrust and take issue with the actions of our own governments.


    BTW: you tube has been banned in china again.... and recently blogspot and "word press" et al
    this must be why...


    -

    Last edited by kingshaj; June 4th, 2009 at 05:14 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdeye View Post
    photos of the protest - http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/125283,21,1,pokaz.html

    Here in Poland it's also the 20th anniversary of the first (partly) free election after the fall of comunism.

    Solidarity FTW!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingshaj View Post
    the ANGRY filipino:

    yes of course:
    so, in an orwellian sense it never really happened and may not be worth celebrating yet....

    as much as commemorating.

    it is an event that, for the time being anyway, only happened in the minds of foreigners .



    BTW: you tube has been banned in china again.... and recently blogspot and "word press" et al
    2+2=5

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    i do believe it will eventually be 4

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    Well hopefully, the internet can work wonders. The Chinese government wants China to become a developed nation, which could lead to every citizen having access to the net. Think about it, it'd be impossible for Chinese authorities to regulate what 1.3 billion people have to say. It'd be liking holding up an umbrella under a waterfall, in that scenario they'd walk straight into democracy whether they liked it or not.

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    about half the links in any google search made in china are blocked
    they are able to block major sites like youtube and word press

    porn is blocked

    whats left to be seen is there because it is permitted.


    so i wouldn't underestimate the power of a government of this size ..you have nothing to compare it too.

    it wields control simply not seen in the west...

    i do believe they could keep information under their control almost indefinitely if it weren't for the economic gains the internet brings by facilitating new markets.


    see the thing is there is no outrage, no cries for freedom in china.
    no prevailing sense that the are being deprived of alternatives.

    they are just going to work and home again to watch dvds like the rest of us.


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    Though there is only a small portion of the populace with access to the internet at the moment, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by kingshaj View Post
    see the thing is there is no outrage, no cries for freedom in china.
    no prevailing sense that the are being deprived of alternatives.

    they are just going to work and home again to watch dvds like the rest of us.
    That makes me feel like listening to OK Computer and sulking all day. The Orwellian idea of a nation's people being too scared to bemoan an authorities ills, in fear of reperation. It sends chills down my spine. (Though Orwell took it to the very extreme, of a Government trying to eradicate sexual thought. In fear of it becoming too deviant from cleancut uniformity.)

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    A terrific article is up regarding the "tank man". A photographer who was there, caught the iconic image from a totally different angle.

    http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/0...le-on-history/

    Terril Jones had only shown the photograph to friends.

    While working as a reporter in Beijing during the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, he shot many photographs and recorded several hours of video. It wasn’t until weeks afterwards, when he had returned to Japan, that he discovered the magnitude of what he had captured — an iconic moment in history from an entirely unique angle.

    His version of the tank man has never been published until now.

    ....


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    Quote Originally Posted by kagemusha22 View Post
    Though there is only a small portion of the populace with access to the internet at the moment, right?



    That makes me feel like listening to OK Computer and sulking all day. The Orwellian idea of a nation's people being too scared to bemoan an authorities ills, in fear of reperation. It sends chills down my spine. (Though Orwell took it to the very extreme, of a Government trying to eradicate sexual thought. In fear of it becoming too deviant from cleancut uniformity.)
    eherm...actually, if you look it up...China actually is on track, or may have even surpassed the USA in the number of internet users...
    as for a population scared of their government...not really, only a handful maybe...most ( not all) have been brought up with gov propaganda all their lives that the only enemy they see are foreigners.


    also you tube has been banned for close to two months now...and it is widely acknowledged that it was because of this Tiananmen Anniversary.
    Think about what kind of power a government has to be able to block information on the web, to be able to block news stories on TV at anytime, inserting crappy commercials during trhe length of the offending clip, now that is scary.
    And I always wonder why Americans always seem to think their government is evil....not even close people.
    As Kingshaj said...there is nothing to compare the chinese government too in terms of the scope of their powers and what they are willing to do with it.
    ( tip: kingshaj, foreign porn websites are banned or blocked, but there are a TON of chinese language porn websites..although once the people behind it are caught, they get 20 years in jail. for posting porn)

    Last edited by the ANGRY filipino; June 4th, 2009 at 10:33 PM.
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  34. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by the ANGRY filipino View Post
    eherm...actually, if you look it up...China actually is on track, or may have even surpassed the USA in the number of internet users...
    I was just curious, thus the question mark. Though even if it surpassed 300 million users, that still wouldn't represent a quarter of the population. Unless the users are from a variety of social groups and locations in China. What are the luxuries for a lower-class person in China like, out of curiousity?

    Last edited by Kagemusha22; June 5th, 2009 at 08:17 AM.
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    over here right now...well, lets just say that when the global recession was hurting other countries,it was barely felt over here....a fact that my coworkers always rub in every chance they get...
    Wages are increasing for most big city workers, and since everything is mostly manufactured here...things are still pretty darn cheap....so...higher wages plus inexpensive cost of living= pretty happy generation of mainland chinese who don't want to give a shit about what happened 20 years ago, who don't understand why the west think they are crying out for freedom when compared to their parent's generation, China never had it so good.
    Also, because of the one child policy, we are talking about a generation of "only childs" who were given everything by their parents in a time of unprecedented economic growth. A far cry from the generation who wanted democracy and changes so much that they died for it.

    now, the lower wage factory workers who are away from the big cities, that's another story, a lot of them lost their jobs....but then again, being jobless in china doesn't mean the end of the world since costs of living here are really low.
    hell, I can stuff myself silly with a pork bun that costs wu mao ( 5 jiao)...half of 1 rmb.
    so if 1 dollar =7 RMB...what would that translate to?


    it is not uncommon for minimum wage factory workers in the big cities to have large screen TV's or microwaves in their dorms...or actually own houses back in their hometowns that they paid for with their savings from minimum wage.

    basically modern china is a place where you can be as extravagant as you wish and when your money runs out, you can still actually live comfortably on very little money.

    Last edited by the ANGRY filipino; June 5th, 2009 at 01:11 PM.
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  37. #26
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    Now that is interesting, but surely that inflow can only be sustained for a limited period of time. I wonder how things will pan out when the cost of living starts rising. My history teacher said that there is noticeable trends of working-class protest following economic boosts, as they realise that their standard of living can get better and will put effort into extending their rights. (Though I think it's proven already that I'm not qualified in Asian politics, or politics generally)

    Quote Originally Posted by the ANGRY filipino View Post
    now, the lower wage factory workers who are away from the big cities, that's another story, a lot of them lost their jobs....but then again, being jobless in china doesn't mean the end of the world since costs of living here are really low.
    hell, I can stuff myself silly with a pork bun that costs wu mao ( 5 jiao)...half of 1 rmb.
    so if 1 dollar =7 RMB...what would that translate to?
    7 cents? For me that would be halved again into 3 or 4 pence, as I live in Britain. (Christ that's cheap)

    Still apart from this aside to modern China, it's very sad that the younger generation simply don't care about it.

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    please have in mind people, that this video, picture etc, is of a man protesting against the governments coverup, well after June 4th. The actual protests were of a huge scale, and lasted for days and days, until the army, I think about 50.000 or so troopers marched into the square, at night, and begun killing people indescremenately. The massacre lasted until morning.

    So the balls of this man... I think probably as big as those of the boys and girls throwing rocks against AK47 bullets, and standing fearless against marching troops, for hours, in the name of freedom.

    Solidarity and Respect. S' all I can say...

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    Quote Originally Posted by the ANGRY filipino View Post
    most ( not all) have been brought up with gov propaganda all their lives
    Just a small thought here... maybe the correct thing to say would be "brought up BY gov Propaganda"

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  43. #30
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    Just read this article, and thought it fits best on this thread. He gets ripped apart in the comments section. (Especially on his statement that twice as many people speak Chinese than English in the world, which is wrong)

    Last edited by Kagemusha22; June 24th, 2009 at 03:50 PM.
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