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(tl;dr is at the bottom)
I have a tiny, tiny tablet (it's a graphire 3 5x3) and lately it's been freaking out on me (sometimes it has random spasms, but most of the time it's the pressure sensitivity crapping out and going full force, creating something similar to ink blot spills).
So I'm in the market for a new tablet. Right now I'm looking at an intuos 4 medium tablet or a cintiq 12wx.
Obviously the cintiq is much more expensive so I was thinking about getting a used one on ebay.
Money aside, is there ANY REASON AT ALL I should avoid the cintiq? Any at all?
As far as what sort of work I do, I do animation in flash and I paint in photoshop. I have my BFA thesis coming up soon too (I will hopefully make a 5 minute hand drawn cartoon). I also animate in maya, but I feel like I wouldn't use the cintiq (or a tablet) for that anyways.
The main reason why the cintiq looks so tempting right now is because I'm used to looking where I draw. When I use my animation disk, I rotate it at every angle imaginable (same with my sketchbook) and I simply can't do that with the tablets that lack the LCD screen.
I've also considered a tablet PC but- I've already invested a lot in my desktop AND they're all out of my price range. I know the cheaper ones can't play back 24fps at real time, at least with Flash, so I don't think those ones are worth it.
Anyways, if I can get a discounted (slightly used) cintiq 12wx, should I go for it? What are the reasons to avoid cintiqs? How's the LCD screen on it? Does the unit get hot at all? Do images burn into the screen? etc etc.
Last edited by jgchan; May 24th, 2009 at 06:48 PM.
i heard cintiq gets hot after awhile. and the screen space is limited on the 12wx. with a tablet, you can work on a larger monitor
I bought a 12wx a few months back and thought (and continue to think) it was an extremely wise investment. If you're looking for a need to be able to carry this thing around and use it anywhere other than a home...no. It has a pretty good amount of chords to it (1 going from the cintiq to the converter box, 2 from the converter box to your computer, and the other 2 are a combination of 1 that goes from the converter box and has a power converter on the end of it and 1 that's just a normal power chord that plugs into the power converter to goes into the wall.) Suprisingly enough though, the 12wx doesn't actually get hot. It does get a LITTLE warm, but just enough to keep your hand toasty! It does have a little "edge sensitivity", as in when you get around an inch away from the edge from the screen, the cursor does get a little wobbly. But I thought it was worth it to be able to twist and turn like a scketchbook and be able to see where Im drawing...and the amount of space on the screen isn't bad at all!! I find it to be plenty. Im preparing to get an intuos 4 hopefully that's worth it too! Ha!
yeah, from what I understand it's not portable at all really, unless you've got somewhere to plug into and setup for awhile.
I've got a cintiq 21 and I'm hoping to pick up a 12 also. I've heard of people using them as pallettes for regular cintiqs which I think is brilliant, but I also want the option to be able to sit on the couch with a laptop and work while the wife watches tv.
I have heard of it having weird reactions around the edges which sucks and it does seem kind of expensive.
Maybe what im working on isnt serious enough or I havent had it long enough but I dont experience this "wobblyness" near the edges on the 12 inch cintiq.
I dont regret buying the cintiq at all. I hook it up to a laptop (wich has a setting to run with the lid closed) so I can just tuck everything under the bed and lay there with just the cintiq on my lap and draw.
I suppose I could do that with the larger cintiq as well but the 12 is so thin and light its easy to man handle it if you know what I mean.
Pen sensitivity isnt up to date with the intuos 4
1024 (or something ) = Cintiq
2048 or something = Intuos 4
also color collaboration is a bitch, you'll spend hours trying to adjust the right colors that match your monitor, in the end you think you've got it, then when you paint on your cintiq then drag it to your monitor, you'll be crying loads because the colors didn't come out right,
well that's my experience
I only use the monitor feature on my cintiq for sketching and grayscaling, then i drag it to my monitor for coloring, ( great use of a cintiq eh? ) actually, i also use it for perspective, straight lines, and such, its more control, But if i were you, i would wait for the "hopefully" new cintiq with Intuos 4 features and "hopefully" Better color collab, <-- ( that would be a good cintiq )
I'm in my third week of owning one. I really love it! I've been using a standard tablet for about 10 years and I finally decided to bite the bullet and get one. It does get warm after some time but I use that as an excuse to turn it off and take a break.
I thought the screen size would bother me but it doesn't. There's just something different about working directly on the screen makes me not realize the size. Because of the cost, I would definitely look at purchasing it new. I would stay away from eBay. The unit costs a lot and if something goes wrong you will appreciate the warranty from Wacom.
Portability isn't an issue. The only times I plan on moving this thing in the foreseeable future is when I move from my house to a dorm.
The color calibration issue seems like it might be a serious problem, but does the cintiq only act as a 2nd monitor? Can you set it to see exactly what's on the first monitor? (or is that more of a video card sort of thing?)
Pen sensitivity, right now, isn't that much of an issue for me. Anything is going to be an improvement over the current 512 (I think) I get from the graphire 3.
Anyways, I can tell you right now I'm leaning much more towards the intuos 4 medium.
I can get a medium intuos 4 AND a student copy of Photoshop cs4 (with the nifty canvas rotation feature) and still have $400 left to kick around (which is a month's tuition for me).
From other people I've talked to about this, it seems like, given the choice between the small and big cintiq, I'd be better off just saving up for the big cintiq instead of splurdging now and getting the small one.
So, small cintiq now or big cintiq later and "survive" off of the intuos 4 for the next few years?
if you're animating in flash it means you're not going for hd720 + resolution, so the relatively small cintiq's size is not an issue.
if you're not going to make epic paintings for print, you'll probably won't even need a large work area and ability to paint with free broad strokes, that's what a larger intuos gives you; and I'm not sure that 2048 levels of pressure will make difference with flash (they will with photoshop or painter)
personally I was rather annoyed by the edge inaccuracy, jitter.
And another thing that gets mentioned (or even noticed) very rarely:
If you use the Cintiq as a normal tablet while keeping the screen switched on(!), it's very inaccurate! But if you turn of the screen and use it as a tablet then, it's noticeable smoother and more accurate! And the jitter at the edges is completely gone.
For animation, this is really a good investment I must admit. It's much easier to animate working directly on the screen. Since I like to do hand-drawn animation myself, I bought the 12WX for that reason as well.
What I think shouldn't be underestimated is the fact that it gets warm after a while and your hand might start sweating. It's more bothersome than some may think. Or it could just be me...
Also, I find it a tad too small. With all the menues it gets pretty cramped. The 21 would definitely pay out in the the long run.
As another issue I'd mention that I like to see what I am painting without my hand blocking the image. I feel, the endresult is always better when you have a look at your entire work at all times. But since you can use it as a standalone tablet AND an onscreen painting device as well, it's all cool I guess. Just remember that if you're using a 4:3 main screen, you need to change the mapping settings and thus there will be some space cut off on the Cintiq (which makes it a smaller tablet in the end --> not as accurate). This is another thing that posed a problem for me. I should probably think about getting a widescreen giving my Cintiq a 2nd chance since it's catching dust on my desk and I am thinking about selling it...
i got an intuos 3 and a cintiq 21ux, got to said that was hard to get used to the cintiq beczuse of the surface, its cool to sue, but not a magical machine that wil raise your level 100%, cried some months saying why i spend so much money on this one, but afer a time i got used to and draw faster, if you want portability, sorry but the 12 has tomany cables ral big, same as the cintiq 21 or even 20, so i wont recomend it to you if you want to tavel or move around, i work the same with my intuos 3 when im out and want to do sketches, but using painter on my laptop of 15 inches space isnt just enough.
I highly recomend you to get an intuos wide screen, those are cheaper, and you will feel like heaven after using the new leveles of preasure, i used a graphire and believe me you wont believe how much a line can change, besides i think a new type of cintiq will come out soon, and the ones we have will drop prices fast.
But ive heard people that are ahving fun with the 12w, so dont worry with what you will buy, cause you will be 100 times better than the one you have already.
There are no such things as bad art, just tight deadlines.
Well I know that there was a lot of fighting over the warranty of your tablet because they now use acrylic instead of glass and will cause easier scratches on the surface.
Personally, because monitor technology is a lot better now I'm waiting to see what the next generation of cintiqs will offer.
If you need to post a thread asking people to convince you not to buy a product, well I think you've already convinced yourself in that aspect and in that case I find this thread superfluous. Still you probably would learn a thing or two from people's experiences with the product and might consider otherwise
Thanks everyone! Based on what everyone here has said I'll probably just go with an intuos 4 and save up for the big cintiq.
Then again I'm also convinced that someday I'll be animating at Pixar or Disney and I'll be the next hottest thing to hit the industry. I need second/third/fourth/etc. opinions because I often times get pretty terrible ideas.
I love my cintiq 12wx. I was extremely hesitant to buy one from seeing so much criticism of them on the internet. I believe the people who critique the most harshly haven't really set it up properly. Calibrating mine to work well with my work flow took HOURS - though after I took that time, I don't get angle jitter, the pen doesn't wig out at the edges of the screen. I've used it for hours on end and it never gets hot. The screen is physically small, but the resolution is so good on it that it doesn't matter much. I also have a dual-monitor setup where I can be zoomed in to paint on the Cintiq but still have a larger representation on my monitor.
The ability to have direct hand eye coordination with a tablet is something I sorely missed, and I find I work way faster on the Cintiq now. It's much more natural than my previous Intuos.
The Cintiq will fit people based on their work style, surely. See if you can find one at a store to play around on. That will be the best indicator for whether or not you should buy one. I too was under the 'bigger is better' mentality for the Cintiqs, then I tried both of them. I wasn't maximizing the space on the bigger Cintiq as much as I suspected I would. Though the 21ui definitely a nicer choice than the 12wx, I didn't find it be nearly nice enough to justify the leap in price (yet).
It just breaks my heart to see people knock the 12wx for issues that seem to lie in calibration. It's a beautiful little piece of machinery and it was worth every penny for me. Goodluck on your search for the perfect tablet
I love mine, but the day that they get a wireless one out, I will through a party! I'm just sick of cables in general. But I do enjoy my cintiq very much, and what also helps with the screen when it gets warm and your hand might start sticking a little from the sweat, I bought one of those finger sleeves for drawing and throw that on when I work on it. Helps my hand slide around perfectly on the screen and I feel like I am in Minority Report! It covers your palm and pinky finger, so you get an idea of what I am talking about. Hope that helps.
I used to have colour collaboration problems but after i did this there have been none.
done after calibration:
MY SKETCHBOOK IN BIG LETTERS: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=116474
COMPLETE LIST OF THE FORGOTTEN SKETCHBOOKS: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...=1#post1992378
I feel colour collaboration here is more accurate term, we are talking about having two screen to match each other in colour space. Offcource it is calibration when we are trying to have most accurate colour space on single screen, but here it is two screen that have to match each other in accurate colour space so: colour collaboration between screens.
we are actually splitting hairs here thought...
MY SKETCHBOOK IN BIG LETTERS: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=116474
COMPLETE LIST OF THE FORGOTTEN SKETCHBOOKS: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...=1#post1992378
Dont buy the 12WX.
Save and get the 21UX. It's worth it.
I use my Cintiq12 all the time, 2D, 3D. Everything I do, I complete much faster than I would with either paper/scanning/mouse or paper/scanning/tablet, or full-tablet.
Yeah, if you can afford it, get the 21.
I would be wary though about buying one from Ebay.
These Cintiq's have likely had slight changes over the years, and there would be a doubt about your 3 year warranty, believe me, if you spend the bucks, you dont want the thing to go >poof!< and not be able to send it into WACOM for covered repairs.
Mines a fairly recent production model, and I'm very pleased with its performance, the LCD is crisp. Heat? I don't find it that bad, I have this thing on my lap most of the time.
I would find going back to a pen-tablet very hard to do, I have deadlines and the cintiq lets me finish in ample time.
The one thing I do have a problem with, and this is not really a Cintiq-only problem. Is you will find you will need to turn off your monitor or assign the cintiq as primary depending on the software you use.
Manga Studio (3EX) and the 3D paint-room in Carrara 7 pro, works only if the cintiq is primary and secondary monitor is shut off.
Dogwaffle pro's sliderbars only show up in the primary monitor only, but will otherwise function properly.
So software compatibility has to extend to multiple monitors and LCD-tablet support.
Last edited by Magnatude; November 30th, 2009 at 02:29 PM.
Carrara 7 Pro, Anime Studio Pro 5.6, Hexagon 2.5, Zbrush 3.5, Project Dogwaffle Pro4, Manga Studio, trueSpace 7.6, Corel Draw X3 and WACOM Cintiq12WX user.
I just got my Cintiq12wx yesterday and have a problim with monitor setup. I use a laptop vs. a desktop PC. Attached to this desktop is a 24" Dell HC monitor that was very expensive. Now it seems I cannot use my Cintiq in conjunction with the 24" It's either one or the other. The problem as that I use the 24" as my main monitor. Am I missing something? Is there away to set this up?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Are you running a dual-monitor setup or did you do this previously? Are you trying to run three monitors of one card?
As you present it, I can only think of one thing and that is a terribly old graphics card. Any modern graphics card should be able to easily power two DVI connections. So if it's not hardware, it might be software.
But since that's all pretty simple to set up, I highly doubt it's that. (Sounding like a condescending tool here, I apologise in advance.)
I've owned a 12WX for over a year (two counting a replacement for one which died).
Drawing directly on the screen is nice, however there are quite a few catches.
- the screen is small so you need to adjust the workspace or keep using TAB to hide/show the pallets.
- the pen is quite thick and obscures the screen, especially when compared to a tradition LCD + tablet, or even a pencil.
- both my tablets have the shakes around the edges which limits the useful screen area and can make selecting menus tricky. Wobbly lines in the middle of the screen appear to be a problem with Photoshop - Painters being much smoother - ironically I find turning smoothing OFF in the brush palette helps!
- while the screen is A4 size the pen has nowhere near the precision of a sharp pencil so you will need to zoom in, zoom out to check proportions... and in, and out etc.
- the screen is dull, boosting the brightness destroys colour accuracy so I have kept mine around 55% or 60%.
- compared to other monitors the contrast isn't great, subtle changes in colour which are visible on my work monitor become flat.
- Price, at this point in time for the same price or less you could buy a very good 24" monitor and an Intuos 4 medium, which in my personal opinion (and with hindsight) represents better value for money.
I bought one because default pen was too large for my hands
(but I went back later when got into oil painting with large brushes, lol)
on the fourth day of glitchmas my painter™ gave to me
four random crashes, three broken brushes, two system hangups & one corrupted workspace
Your quite right, its just an additional cost on top what I have already spent. What might work in future would be a basic thin pen about the size of a pencil or bic which comes with a set of grips/sheaths so users can pick a size they are comfortable with.
At the moment I'm doing most of my painting at work where I'm very fortunate to have an Intuos 3 A5 and a 30" display to work on.
Last edited by RocketBoots; January 26th, 2010 at 10:54 AM. Reason: An idea! *Ping!*
Dont buy one or a puppy will die.
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
--- Frank Herbert, Dune - Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear
Check out my Sketchbook! Critique and Criticism welcomed.
or my Deviantart!
· or check out my: Blog
Art - hmm it is quite sturdy... you could totally take down a puppy with one, possibly a kitten too
And don't even be tempted to use it to visit any pr0n sites..... please think of the kittens... you know what god does in retaliation for the big "M".
The 12ux is $500 too expensive. Don't buy it.
Last edited by macmcrae; March 14th, 2010 at 09:14 AM.