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  1. #1
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    Commission Nightmares... how to handle people like this?

    If I've learned one thing in my amateur artistry, it is never commission for "friends". Never give them a break for a couple of sketches, they'll walk all over you.

    Sometimes I wonder what I should do about this issue, though I'm not terribly worried about it overall. Recently, I agreed to do 2-3 cheap sketches, uncolored, for an internet friend. Months later they decided that they want to change the rules, and have been harassing me endlessly about coloring and inking said sketches as being a "part of what they paid for". Problem is, this was an arrangement made over an instant messenger, not via email where I would have documentation of the "conditions" of the commission... and yet, despite my completed "work", they're demanding I perform or pay a refund in full. It was only about $35 worth of stuff, a small handful of concepts for their "story" to better help them visualize a couple of characters...

    They paid me via paypal as well, well over 90 days ago, and last I checked you must file a dispute with paypal before 90 days of a transaction to be eligible for "protection"--though how does one go about thwarting threats of someone attempting to take your effort and money back, too?

    $35 isn't a big deal to me, granted, but I stand more on the principle of the matter now in my refusal. I wonder though, how the best way to handle this situation? How to avoid it in the future (no "commissions" without documentation laying out the terms, for one...)?

    Anyone else have some interesting issues with personal acquaintances and commissions? What did you do?


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  3. #2
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    what instant msger do you use? i remember that when i used instant msger it used to automaticly save conversations, although i haven't used one for a few years so this could be a redundant post.

    while i'm not a pro in any sense of the word, i'd think that since you don't have any proof of terms, then neither do they, you did the work for them, which was just a few sketches and nothing else, you upheld your end of the deal, you got paid and now they are trying to undercut you.

    if the pros on here say there is nothing they can do, i'd say cut them off, people like that make artists life hell.


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    I work for free for friends or not at all, occasionally this gives rise to a test of friendship - allowing me to squarely face the reality of the relationship and how much I value it or need it.

    The last person to ask me for a favor - because he was poor, and a long time acquaintance, I offered him a very generous fee, $50 for a full painting - maybe ten hour's work for a album cover. (way less than minimum wage) He agreed to it begrudgingly and then balked when I said I required the money up front.

    His loss.

    I don't have a problem selling drawings for $200-$1000 so why in the world....? People just have a weird view of artists if they're not backed by a gallery or major corporation.
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  6. #4
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    In the 1974 film "The Taking of Pelham 123" the subway controller, referring to a group of passengers taken hostage by hijackers, yells "What do they expect for 35 cents, to live forever?" Maybe you could tailor this quote for your reply; something like, "What do you expect for $35, fucking Frazetta?" Just a thought.

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  8. #5
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    I, as well, have done free or under priced work for people I know and acquaintances and most of the time it has come back to bite me in the arse. Usually though it only hurts me because there is an expectation started that you will always do free/cheap work for them. I've chalked it up to experience and now when I'm asked I just tell them that I have to much freelance going (and if they would like to pay rate i can squeeze them in) or I tell them that it will be on my time, and may take awhile.

    As for your situation, I agree that since no agreement exists they can't hold anything over you. I would contact them and tell them one of three things can happen.
    1) You'd be glad to color the work for an additional charge,
    2)If they are unhappy with it you will refund them the money and retain rights to the images (this isn't the best, but it does put an end to it
    3) They can keep the images, and rights, and enjoy the fact that they got a really good deal. Let them know that if painting the illustrations was part of the deal you would have charged more up front.

    And like you said, always get some kind of agreement in the future. It protects both sides and gets everything on the table.

    Good Luck!
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    Since there is no agreement, there is nothing to reinforce. This goes both ways.
    Here is an interesting situation-
    Your "friend" has no leg to stand on, especially since you have handled your end of the deal. I would forget about it. If the guy harasses you, file a restraining order. I do not do commissions for friends. I simply do it, as a gift, and am happy with whatever they respond with. A thank you usually suffices. When I do commissions, I have a one page agreement which must be signed and returned to me along with half of the commission total, before my pencil touches paper. the remaining balance is due upon completion and in accordance with the agreed stipulations.I have had no problems as the result of this approach. Hope this helps.

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  11. #7
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    Honestly, call the whole thing a wash.
    Have the friend send you back the sketches (if you have already sent them) and if not just send him the damn 35 bucks. It really isn't worth all the stress is it?

    Artists have to be honest and transparent regardless of how the person feels about you in the end. Just say "Look, obviously we have had a miscommunication. This is price for what you are asking of me...if you do not agree to that price, then I am sorry but we need to start from square one or not at all".

    This should be a lesson learned for you, though, hopefully.

    Petty commissions for acquaintances are NEVER worth it, in my experience. It doesn't build your portfolio, it doesn't really add that much in your pocket, and since it's not strictly business (such as a comic artist doing commissions at a convention or something), it ends up being way more drawn out than it needs to be.

    -D

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  13. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanticleer View Post
    internet friend
    Well there's your problem.

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  15. #9
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    What you have now is a he said/she said situation. You have more important things to do with your time than this.

    Would I refund the $35 if it meant getting a person like this off my back? Yes.
    Ask for the sketches back and send him the $35. He will have no excuse to bother you again.
    If he balks on giving you back the sketches, send him the $35 anyway.

    Maybe not what you wanted to hear, but I'd just chalk this up as a lesson learned and get things in writing next time. $35 and a couple sketches are a cheap price to pay for a lesson like that.

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  17. #10
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    I've been lucky! I've never been stiffed on a commission. My plan, if I ever ran into problems on a commission, is to offer to give back the funds in return for the sketch/painting. Then I would hang the piece over the urinals in the men's washroom of the Occidental Hotel tavern with the notice, "for a good time, call ...-...."

    Seriously though, for $35 I think you got a pretty cheap lesson. I would just request the sketches back in return for the $35. If they don't return the sketches, then just return the $35 and consider it a life lesson. Either option is better than letting them harass you into doing more work than you believed you committed to. Some people will never let go once they believe they've got their hooks into you.

    At this point,a recomendation to build a paper trail on business arrangements would be redundant.
    The truth will set you free,
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    It's hard to be a professional with amateur clients.

    Tristan Elwell
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    "Work is more fun than fun."
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    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
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  20. #12
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    I work for free for friends or not at all
    agreed, or treat them like any other client if it's actually a big job they want done.
    "Every little step considered one at a time is not terribly daunting" - Ethan Coen

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  22. #13
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    Very enlightning post. I'm finding myself faced with this kind of dilemma as well. As much as my logic tells me that art is what I do for a living, and that I am entitled to get money for my labor, I have always felt very strange asking for money from people I like. "But... I draw for fun anyways," I'd say to myself, "and asking for $200 for a digital painting from this friend will sound ridiculous because they have no clue of the time it takes or market price." Then I almost always ended up with a payment that I neither need nor feel happy about(like the $35 mentioned by the original post), a bit of guilt, and a lot of wondering why I've gotten myself into this situation again. Even worse, my friends would not even know that I'm doing them a favor - not that I want anything back, but I'd prefer if they ask for this kind of commissions as thoughtfully as any other kind of favors. meaning not too frequently and only if they really want it.

    I'm thinking Naomi's approach is the way to go. No sense muddling business and friendship - this way everybody understands things for what they are, and I wouldn't need to feel guilty or underpaid

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    If you decide to do something like this in the future, for another internet friend, put it in writing in email that IM conversations will not be considered part of the agreement, if the person wants a change it must be made in email or will not be acknowledged. IMs are too random and while you can log everything it's a good way to get ideas discussed, but I never consider them final unless in writing - ie an email.

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  25. #15
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    Even your best friend will fuck you over for money if they are in a position to. I used to think that you could just have "gentlemen's agreements" and that writing out contracts would scare away clients or piss people off. WRONG - it's not personal - it's business, otherwise you'll get screwed.

    You learnt a lesson and potentially lost $35? That's good luck. In the last year I learnt three separate lessons and lost close to 10 grand - work I did, work that was used to earn other people money, work that I never saw a cent out of (and not just freelance work, but paintings! Real oil paintings that I painted and I loved and were sold, and then the gallery decided that they would move location and forget that they owed me the other 70% !!!!).

    My lessons were:

    1) It doesn't matter if you've worked with a client for over a year and they have become friends of yours as well as constantly reliable - when the shit hits the fan you better have something in writing or you won't get paid. (they didn't get paid so they're telling me I can't get paid! They are the capitalist hiring me to make work, it's not my problem if they're up shit creek, because when it works out well they get keep all the profit - that's how it works!).

    2) If everybody tells you a client is shithouse and has a reputation for not paying - avoid them (yes I know, common sense - but I thought I'd give them a chance).

    3) When somebody keeps telling you the cheque is in the mail, and then later that they "thought their wife has deposited the money last week" and they keep stalling on paying - get it resolved asap - don't wait until months have passed or you can kiss the money goodbye. Forget about being nice and saying "No worries, just pay when you remember next" - send a strongly worded letter saying "Amount owing: $BAM. Payment is expected within a week." And keep pestering until you get paid.

    Business is business - leave friendship out of it when it comes to money and everybody keeps their kneecaps.

    Though even if stuff is in writing you'll still get screwed sometimes - if the amount is too small it's not worth following up, or sometimes a business goes bankrupt and they legally don't have to pay you etc etc... And it's very easy for smaller companies / individuals to just ignore you and hope you'll go away if they decide they don't want to pay (especially if they are in another city/country).

    More relating to your issue: A friend of mine did a lot of work for a client, and he hadn't stipulated in the contract when he would be paid. So when he finished the work agreed upon they kept asking for more and more work, and kept asking for revisions, and basically withheld payment and got months of extra work out of him for very little extra money. Now he always makes sure that big jobs are paid in chunks and not right at the end, and he always stipulates in the contract what changes the client can make (ie: once they lock in a concept sketch and he moves on to the animation, they are not allowed to go back and ask for a change to the concept. Make sure they understand that, when they approve the concept sketch and agree in writing that it's locked in and no changes can be made without more money) - it's got to be in writing.
    Last edited by Puck; May 25th, 2009 at 04:37 AM. Reason: fixed typos

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  27. #16
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    I respectfully disagree with those who say just give him back his money and chalk it up to experience. Not only do I see that as the wrong mindset it's potentially damaging to put out the message you're a pushover. The risk is you get a reputation for not sticking up for yourself and your rights. Not to mention the implication that your art "isn't worth the hassle".

    Yes, it's only a quick job for $35 but what better situation to learn? We can say be more careful next time but it can happen no matter what precautions are taken and the sooner you get into the mindset of being firm but fair the better.

    In this case it's not as if this "internet friend" as at your door with an axe. If you don't want to discuss it with him, ignore him. Block his email and IM or whatever and forget about him.

    Personally you'd have to hold a gun to my head to get me to refund someone money for a job I'd completed to spec just because they wanted more, more, more (assuming that is the case). And even then it would be 50/50.

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  29. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Impossible View Post
    In the 1974 film "The Taking of Pelham 123" the subway controller, referring to a group of passengers taken hostage by hijackers, yells "What do they expect for 35 cents, to live forever?" Maybe you could tailor this quote for your reply; something like, "What do you expect for $35, fucking Frazetta?" Just a thought.
    Hahahah very nice sir, I like that!

    --

    Haha I'd typed up a nice long thing for this but erased it since--a lot of you are right, the issue isn't quite worth the stess of it of course. But here are my major concerns at this point:

    - I don't want to give the impression that I cave under wild, unfounded demands (as they have attempted to tell me I owe them other "promised" work, which I do not).

    - They've relentlessly IMed/emailed/called my phone over the matter of this commission and doing other work for them (unpaid). I think I MAY have to file some kind of restraining order on said person at this rate....

    - They've been using the concept work publicly to promote their writing, and at the suggestion of a refund and me retaining rights to the work, refuse to cease use of the work AND have threatened to file public complaints about me business-wise.

    I think I will consider what you have all said and try to handle this as delicately as possible. I'd really hate for my as-of-yet untarnished reputation for quality and delivery to be ruined by someone's blatant immaturity. Regardless of the outcome Wooly is totally right: this is one heck of a life lesson on how to handle my "profession", especially regarding "friends", ha!

    Arshes is completely right too, from now on EVERYthing is going down into a saved file or documentation of some kind, haha, friend or not. I feel so naive thinking that someone you thought you knew would treat you with some respect when you give them a break.

    Baron I do agree with your second comment on the matter too--I'm torn, even for such a small amount since it is a bit of a moral dilemma.

  30. #18
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    I agree with the advice you've been given already. So sorry you've also experienced the frustration and difficulty of this kind of situation

    Hmmm, would just like to clarify one point though - every artist automatically retains copyright of all original work they create unless it is specifically given away (A much higher price would be charged in that case)

    So something else you may want to consider is stipulating how the images are allowed to be used in any written agreement.

    I've already commented and posted a link regarding this here: link

    As for working with family/friends - at least let them know how much you would normally charge and then tell them the amount you're willing to do it for as a favor... but as others have said it's sometimes better to just do it free to avoid the weird feeling of not having charged what it's worth but also having charged money to someone you care about

    And yes - always get an agreement down in writing - and never, ever be-little the value of your work

    All the best!

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  32. #19
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    back up that digital documentation too, if it's not stored on gmail or something

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    Quote Originally Posted by The7Artist7 View Post
    I agree with the advice you've been given already. So sorry you've also experienced the frustration and difficulty of this kind of situation

    Hmmm, would just like to clarify one point though - every artist automatically retains copyright of all original work they create unless it is specifically given away (A much higher price would be charged in that case)

    So something else you may want to consider is stipulating how the images are allowed to be used in any written agreement.

    I've already commented and posted a link regarding this here: link

    As for working with family/friends - at least let them know how much you would normally charge and then tell them the amount you're willing to do it for as a favor... but as others have said it's sometimes better to just do it free to avoid the weird feeling of not having charged what it's worth but also having charged money to someone you care about

    And yes - always get an agreement down in writing - and never, ever be-little the value of your work

    All the best!
    I'll give that link a read, I should probably brush up on the finer details on WHO owns what when doing freelancing and all just so I have all my bases covered. Never had an issue until now, haha. Go figure! But thanks for your advice! I'll be looking into this more thoroughly for future transactions as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by XanaChama View Post
    Sounds fishy. I wouldn't give them a dime, especially if it's a digital commission or has been scanned. I mean it took them over 90 days to say something else on the matter after all this time? If the job hadn't been completed, then why did they pay you? And no other word about this until now? I call BS. You were really underpaid then if they wanted all that work :/
    Yeah, that was another point of mine. I know you must file a dispute with paypal for item/service discrepancies within 90 days of the payment before they will back you in "seller/buyer protection" (last time I checked anyway), so I have a feeling she may not be able to file claims there given that was her payment method--like she'd threatened to do anyhow. But it's very fishy. She was pleased with the work until recently, about last month, began to pressure me about coloring.

    Normally I'll charge anywhere from 60-90 for the concept work like I did for her, and upwards of 120+ for fuller concepts with color and so on... so for what she got it was quite a bit of a break haha.

  34. #21
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    great thing about the internet, you don't have to talk to anyone you don't want to
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    There is a function in Messenger that saves all dialogue. Turn it on!
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    ALWAYS - sort costs and have it emailed to first before you start a project, regardless of it being a friend or general client.

    Discussing any work over msn, isnt good practice. You really should have got this person to email you what they wanted with final costs. That way you dont loose out.

    For me, if its a friend, I still get them to email me, and I wont start work until its all been agreed. Ive worked for free and for a fee.

    IMO - wash your hands of this. $35 isnt enough for sketches, let alone ink and colors....


    Mx

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    I'm very picky about what work I do for friends (or worse, friends of friends).

    "Hey, my girlfriend wrote a children's book and she needs an artist..."
    "I don't really do children's books. I'm not that kind of artist."
    "She just wants a cover. I know you, you can do great work fast, it wouldn't take long."
    "Yeah, the cover would be mostly worthless to her anyways, that's not how publishing works. Unless she is self publishing. Either way, it still isn't the style of work I do."
    "She's willing to pay."
    "Haha, well I had assumed there would be pay. I have plenty of paying work at the moment. I wouldn't even be able to consider non paying jobs. It still doesn't change the fact that I'm not the right artist for the job. You've seen my art man, it's all monsters and women. Unless she's doing a book about monsters and women, it's not what I do."


    I don't do children's books. I don't do cartoons. I don't design tattoos. I don't do logos (unless I really like you). I don't do comic books. I don't airbrush motorcycle tanks. I don't want to paint something nice to hang over your mom's couch. I don't do portraits of pets. I can't do caricatures for parties. While I probably COULD do many of those things, I don't have the time or inclination to try, and honestly you are much much better getting someone who wants to do those things.

    If you want a monster, robot, ninja, sexy woman, or something sci-fi/fantasy then I'm your man. But not for free.
    Last edited by J Wilson; May 26th, 2009 at 04:06 PM.

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    when I sell big work to family and friends I only charge for cost of materials. Smaller works on paper I just give.

    Hopefully I'm about to sell a painting I had on show last month.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Wilson View Post
    I'm very picky about what work I do for friends (or worse, friends of friends).

    "Hey, my girlfriend wrote a children's book and she needs an artist..."
    "I don't really do children's books. I'm not that kind of artist."
    "She just wants a cover. I know you, you can do great work fast, it wouldn't take long."
    "Yeah, the cover would be mostly worthless to her anyways, that's not how publishing works. Unless she is self publishing. Either way, it still isn't the style of work I do."
    "She's willing to pay."
    "Haha, well I had assumed there would be pay. I have plenty of paying work at the moment. I wouldn't even be able to consider non paying jobs. It still doesn't change the fact that I'm not the right artist for the job. You've seen my art man, it's all monsters and women. Unless she's doing a book about monsters and women, it's not what I do."


    I don't do children's books. I don't do cartoons. I don't design tattoos. I don't do logos (unless I really like you). I don't do comic books. I don't airbrush motorcycle tanks. I don't want to paint something nice to hang over your mom's couch. I don't do portraits of pets. I can't do caricatures for parties. While I probably COULD do many of those things, I don't have the time or inclination to try, and honestly you are much much better getting someone who wants to do those things.

    If you want a monster, robot, ninja, sexy woman, or something sci-fi/fantasy then I'm your man though. But not for free.
    Said it better than me. I re-read this like 3 times and smiled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanticleer View Post
    --a lot of you are right, the issue isn't quite worth the stess of it of course. But here are my major concerns at this point:

    - I don't want to give the impression that I cave under wild, unfounded demands (as they have attempted to tell me I owe them other "promised" work, which I do not).
    - They've been using the concept work publicly to promote their writing, and at the suggestion of a refund and me retaining rights to the work, refuse to cease use of the work AND have threatened to file public complaints about me business-wise.
    For a stinking $35? Puhleez! Let them take you to court for that one. And tell them you'll countersue for the FULL value (at general going rates for JUST the sketches you've done, which YOU still own the copyright for...)Don't stir the pot, but don't take BS from boobs, either...
    - They've relentlessly IMed/emailed/called my phone over the matter of this commission and doing other work for them (unpaid). I think I MAY have to file some kind of restraining order on said person at this rate...
    Not quite yet. First, collect ALL the e-mails. Get your ducks in a huddle. Then, compose a very polite, very professional letter, informing them that the situation is not working out for either of you, and you want to return their $35 IN FULL (make sure you use the words "in full"), and to obtain the artwork you gave them. No further discussion, you are calling an end to whatever verbal or IM contract imagined by either or both of you. Tell them that this will also entail them no longer using YOUR images IMMEDIATELY upon signed receipt of their refund, with your letter serving as notice that any further use of your images past that point will be Copyright Infringement.

    Also inform them that you DO have ALL the correspondance on file, and that any further harassment of you by them may be cause for legal action.

    Send them their stinking $35 dollars by Registered, Return Receipt mail, and keep the signed confirmation.

    Of course you won't see your art again, these do not seem like upstanding clients, but you WILL (hopefully) get the idiots out of your hair, and if not, you WILL have enough legal ammunition to then file a small claims suit yourself, should you choose, or at least refute any possible "bad press" they try to spread about you on the 'Net.
    I think I will consider what you have all said and try to handle this as delicately as possible. I'd really hate for my as-of-yet untarnished reputation for quality and delivery to be ruined by someone's blatant immaturity. Regardless of the outcome Wooly is totally right: this is one heck of a life lesson on how to handle my "profession", especially regarding "friends", ha!
    It is also a good lesson on covering your ass at all times, but triple especially when money is involved, friends, foes, or family...
    Arshes is completely right too, from now on EVERYthing is going down into a saved file or documentation of some kind, haha, friend or not. I feel so naive thinking that someone you thought you knew would treat you with some respect when you give them a break.

    Baron I do agree with your second comment on the matter too--I'm torn, even for such a small amount since it is a bit of a moral dilemma.
    Don't sweat the small stuff. And this truly IS small stuff. Pay them off, get rid of them, and let them move on in their lives, so they will stay out of yours...Isn't it worth the "such a small amount," to put a proverbial bullet in the situation? Wal-Mart became such a juggernaut in the market, not least because their return policy was, for a very long time, that the customer was ALWAYS right. No receipt? No problem. If you weren't happy, they gave you the money back. Sure, they got took, and now, they are no longer so generous about refunds, although they are still pretty flexible about exchanges...Take a lesson from the big boys. Morals and ethics aside, you have an unhappy customer. Regardless your side of the tale, the CUSTOMER is not satisfied. Just refund the money. Your reputation will do far better if they can't say you didn't, than if they can. Hard to bad-mouth someone, falsely or otherwise, if you got your money back...

    Best of success to you.

    ~M
    Change is Inevitable, Growth is Optional
    I am The Choosen One!
    Jason sez: Draw more from Life!


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  43. #28
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    I really thought I was bad at deadlines. And that whenever I worked for someone else I would do subpar work compared to what I'd do when just doing stuff for myself. I would push work ahead of me and end up with boring stuff not finished at all to the degree I wished it would be. Until I realised pretty much what J Wilson just put in that good post up there, heh. Now I only do things that I really want to do, and I make sure there's some written contract for it. Even if it's something not time consuming and free (unless it's a gift for someone) I get it written, if just in an email.

    Admittedly it's not much of it, as I prefer to get better at stuff before delving properly into the freelance stuff, and I have actually pulled out of a couple of bigger things because I felt that I wasn't up for it or that it wasn't what I wanted to do at all.

    Get it written, find one of the contracts around, even for low buck stuff, make sure it states to what degree of done painting it's supposed to be (most of my stuff is just sketching out ideas on an early stage, with no real finished paintings), and the price of it, from now on. Also, get in there how long a periode of time can pass before complaining about the level of work. Over 90 days sounds ridiculous. Either you're happy about it, or you know pretty much right away (or during the work periode) that it wasn't what it you were expecting to get as a client. More work means more fee. Getting more than earlier stated in the contract means another payment.

    If you pull the "keeping copyright" card, they might rethink the whole thing as well, btw.
    "The fact that no one understands you doesn't make you an artist"

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  44. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Wilson View Post
    I'm very picky about what work I do for friends (or worse, friends of friends).

    "Hey, my girlfriend wrote a children's book and she needs an artist..."
    "I don't really do children's books. I'm not that kind of artist."
    "She just wants a cover. I know you, you can do great work fast, it wouldn't take long."
    "Yeah, the cover would be mostly worthless to her anyways, that's not how publishing works. Unless she is self publishing. Either way, it still isn't the style of work I do."
    "She's willing to pay."
    "Haha, well I had assumed there would be pay. I have plenty of paying work at the moment. I wouldn't even be able to consider non paying jobs. It still doesn't change the fact that I'm not the right artist for the job. You've seen my art man, it's all monsters and women. Unless she's doing a book about monsters and women, it's not what I do."


    I don't do children's books. I don't do cartoons. I don't design tattoos. I don't do logos (unless I really like you). I don't do comic books. I don't airbrush motorcycle tanks. I don't want to paint something nice to hang over your mom's couch. I don't do portraits of pets. I can't do caricatures for parties. While I probably COULD do many of those things, I don't have the time or inclination to try, and honestly you are much much better getting someone who wants to do those things.

    If you want a monster, robot, ninja, sexy woman, or something sci-fi/fantasy then I'm your man. But not for free.
    I think I love you.

    You know, my biggest request is tattoo design. If I am REALLY friendly with you, as in love you to death and hang out with you more than when you need something, of course I'll do a tattoo design. I charge my best friends for tattoo designs... in beers and Patron shots. As far as distant internet friends.. don't do it much anymore unless I've met them in person.

    In all seriousness, I took little commissions in High School in return for a couple of bucks or a lunch. None of them ever went so sour. I've been the one at fault before when I was going through a terrible time (SEE PREVIOUS TOPICS OF MINE), and I'm sorry to have contributed to the crap/lazy artist precedent. It's taking me some time to re-build my now tarnished reputation, but I am happy to do it now.
    "Twisted by the dark side, young Artist has become. The boy you trained, gone he is... consumed by Deviantart."
    Please, visit my SB ~ N E C R O S K E T C H I K O N ! [Updated :: November 2011]
    My DeviantArt Profile: http://dyspezzia.deviantart.com/
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    http://www.pezzworks.com

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