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  1. #151
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    The man with no name - thanks! And finished.. Im not sure if its gonna get there..

    rikkiniehaus - thanks man.. my gestures are beginning to feel looser and have more flow to them. I still have a lot to learn

    I got up nice and early this morning and did some study. Figures from the masters.. first a Pontormo copy. Pontormo is a great artist to learn from if you do constructive figure drawing. I did this drawing concentrating on how he used the overlapping of line to create form and direction. I learned a lot. Then I did a copy of Andrea del Sarto. I wasnt sure what I was aiming to learn from it exactly. I liked the way he used line thickness to show value.. so I took that as a lesson from this one. For now on I will always approach a study with a lesson in mind.. and constantly try to seek out knowledge throughout the process.. The days of mindless copying are over.. How the hell did I ever expect that to help?? Well off to work for a few hours.

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  2. #152
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    hey BiggJoee don't be so hard on yourself, I know it's sometimes frustrating but I think you did a great job, I mean i'm not sure if you're trying to copy the photo or trying to study, but I never saw the point in copying something perfectly anyways. I always said y not just go take a photo of it, hehe; i think there are some nice things coming through that ref sketch! Try to measure things out, whether it's from life or from photo, it's good practice in the beginning to use measurements if you're proportions are not as confident as you want to be. For example how many head lengths is the whole body; the width of the head how many eyes wide apart is it; etc. This may slow down the process but it is a great exercise to become more aware of proportions.

    As for tonal studies, take a look at the Munsell 10 Step Grey Scale. Take a paint brush and some white and black paint, measure out 10 even blocks of space on a piece of paper or canvas, and see if you can make 10 even steps from pure white to black (don't use the munsell scale, just from your mind and then compare it when ur done).

    Great vilppu studies btw, he's the freaking man!

    Keep up the hardwork!





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  3. #153
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    You have done so much! :o Great Vilppu figures, it really seems to have clicked for you. And dont lose heart with photoshop girl, she is looking pretty nice Really good to see you are working so hard. Cute snake, what is he?

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  4. #154
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    I love me some Pontormo, one of my favs for the exact reasons you mentioned.

    Suggestion: take a sheet of tracing paper and lay it over the original, then find the box shapes and direction for the major masses.(torso, pelvis, arms ect)(good to do with Bridgman too)

    you can also do these tracing paper studies to find his use of arabesques, how he carries lies through the form, ect.

    There is no shame in doing these tracing studies, its just a form of study and exploring a drawing. After doing a few of these, then draw from the drawing again(like you would a model), see if it makes anything clearer.

    I'll also 2nd the measuring advice from Snoochy.

    drop a plum line(straight line vertical) and mark of how many head tall the pose is.
    draw a horizontal and then mark of how wide the pose is.( this is finding the dimension of the poses's notional space).These types of measurements will help. They may be laborious at 1st but the more you do em the quicker your eye sees it.

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  5. #155
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    BiggJoee5790, if you're having trouble doing value studies, then work simpler.
    Sargent himself famously worked with about five values - two in the shadows, three in the lights.

    In my classes at Concept Design Academy, we concentrate on a simple four-value structure using charcoal pencils and newsprint:

    LIGHT
    ========
    1. Lightest Lights (a.k.a. Highlights) - the white of the paper
    2. Halftones - light grey

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    SHADOW
    ========
    3. Shadows - dark grey
    4. Darkest Dark - black

    We use values 1 and 2 for the light areas, and values 3 and 4 for the shadow areas. See that long line I drew in between? Think of that as the DMZ. The lights don't go into the darks and the darks don't go into the lights, otherwise, you risk completely dismantling the value structure.

    If you're having trouble simplifying your values to just four, squint at the model or the drawing. Squinting corrals all those tiny values into big groups = highlights, halftones, shadows, and darkest darks. If you're not sure if something belongs to the halftones or shadows, just make your best guess.

    Anyhow, you don't really need much more than four values to get a great drawing as long as you use smart shape design and sound draftsmanship.

    Attached are examples of what I'm talking about. The first two are from Kevin Chen of four-value figure drawings from life, and the latter are black-and-whites of Frazetta and Cornwell paintings beautifully illustrating just how powerful limiting your values to four/five can be.

    Best of luck.

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  6. #156
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    When using shading the trick is to fool yourself first. You have to make yourself see that the form is doing such and such in space on the page, only after you see it will everyone else see it.
    It's possible to render some parts of the image and leave others blank, but never just render one part by itself, always render two joined parts. Like on the upper and lower leg, the upper leg needs to be rendered, since those parts can be considered as one articulated movement idea. Bending like so "L". Another thing is that that supporting leg needs shading because it's bent nature isn't described by it's silohuette, it's basically a vertical line.
    On that curved leg-like form you put the shading in straight across instead of curved. The shaded curve needs to curve like the outer contour in order to look round. In blue lines I put in CI and CC(except pointing the other way), the difference should be obvious.
    I didn't bother "following the form" because I think it's a waste of time and a show-off technique, I'm not convinced that we learn anything by drawing 100parallell curves. Nevertheless it can give some otherwise unobtainable gestures, still I think they're mostly special effects that don't need to be used all the time.

    Check out this guy's videos for good basic instruction. http://www.youtube.com/user/moatddtutorials

    edit:
    A thing to notice with those 4 value drawings is that they look more like 2 value drawings. The thing to keep in mind with the "halftones" is that they're nowhere near halfway between white and black, they're way the fuck over against the whites.

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  7. #157
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    snootchy - thanks! yes I know what you mean.. I dhouldnt aim to copy the photo exactly. And about the measuring.. Its something I need to do more. I learned all about it but my mind always wants to skip it And yes munsells values are great.. when I first tried oil painting I read about them.

    Sunseaker - thanks! Its a Mexican Black King

    Zazerzs - thanks man.. yea Ive seen someone use the tracing paper over old master works.. I think it was Vilppu actually.. Seems to help a bunch. Ill give it a go.

    sfa - thanks sooo much for that.. youve helped so much, I do need to work simpler.. I tend to get too much into creating soft edges and refining when its not necessary. Ive seen beautiful work done in just a few values.. and youve posted great examples. Ill see what I can do with limited values in the future.

    armando - thanks armando. Thats really important and Im glad you brought it up. I need to take notice of these things when Im studying. Thanks for taking the time to help out.



    Wow that was a lot of great crits.. Im sooo fucking happy haha. I have soo much to work on. Past few days have been really bad drawing wise. But I did manage to do something everyday. I think thats important for my development at this stage.. making sure that no matter what I draw everyday.. even if its quick sketches.. getting something going is better than nothing. Im continuing the gestures.. Ive realized that the gesture stage is wayy more difficult than any other stage of a figure drawing. I did a bunch of them but Im just posting a few. Also I did some quick sketching in my sketchbook of people on the train and in a beauty salon while I patiently waited for my girlfriend.. Im pissed about not getting much done.. but Ill get back on it now

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  8. #158
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    Good to know you are still managing to draw everyday, nice salon sketch XD Those hair things are ridiculous, you must have been crazy bored. Sit down and do some slower drawing some time too, I want to see you try out all the advice :o

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  10. #159
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    Sunseaker - Yep.. Im drawing And yes your right I need to do some long drawings. and yes the salon sucked.... a lot.

    Hey guys.. I began watching the first part of three of Vilppus anatomy of the head. I drew along with him and thats what you see on the first 3 pages. I learned a bunch about proportions and the skull. Then I did some 30 sec gestures and some box figures from photos. Still trying to see form. Then I used acrylic paint for the first time ever with a still life.. I did it on a brown masonite board.. sorry for the awful photo. Finally PS painting of a brush. Im trying to keep my PS stuff very basic for now. Im trying not to over blend and over finish. Im worried about getting the right values and the right colors in the right places. Im sticking to the advice I was given and keeping everything limited.. my values as well as my palette. I not thing taking stuff to a super polished state isnt going to get me anywhere right now... I just need to focus on value and color.. at least thats what seem logical to me

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  11. #160
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    It's great to see you working hard!

    Keep up the good work, with crits like sfa's you're going to do just fine.

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    Ah, that apple is neat! Photoshop brush is too, keeping it basic but concentration hard looks a good plan! You are getting a ton done, how you manage it all I have no clue.

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    wow dood u just keep getting better and better, man really great studies and keep up the hard work it's paying off!




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  14. #163
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    DeeLock - thanks! and I hope so

    Sunseaker - thanks man.. well It helps that works over and its summertime. when school starts up Im gonna have to make as much time for art as possible.

    snootchy - thanks man! Im glad you see it.. im not sure if i do

    I gotta post again because If I let this pile up ill never do it. I started watching Vilppus 2nd video which is spherical forms.. first 3 pages are my notes from the lecture.. I still have to watch the 2nd half of it.
    Then I did a quick Michelangelo copy. I know most people do a master copy for a really long time.. but I think it depends on what your trying to get out of it. In the case of this one.. I wasnt trying to learn about meticulous rendering or anatomy.. I was going for how he constructed the figure, how he twisted the figure, and how he used overlaps to define form. There was no need for me to spend hours measuring to perfection. Then before bed last night I did some Bridgman studying before I fell asleep. I need to fit in time for longer studies of life and photos.. as well as illustrations.PEACEEEE.

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    You are improving, even if you can't see it, and you keep showing me up with all these neat Vilppu and Bridgeman studies. Curses! Keep at it mate!

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    yo yo biggjoee the american hero! hehe awesome bridge studies, i'm liking how the lines in those studies are loose and freely placed rather than trying to get it perfect on paper, and lots of energy in them lines dood, keep it up mang!!




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    thanks guys.. I hope Im improving Im working harder than I ever have. I still need to crank it up though.

    I did somethin new today.. some environment thumbnails. I read that the CA Atelier has its students work roughly 50% from life and 50% from imagination.. And Im pretty sure they know what theyre doing.. So I think I need to use my imagination more. I dont know a thing about environments.. I just had some fun though... they definetely are fun I also did more gestures and all that but thats boring haha

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    Wow, it looks like you took a huge leap in progress from page 4 to now. Good job man!

    Check out the sketchbook,you know you want to...it has airbrush and other cool stuff in it!
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=166335
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    TayMC - well thats nice to hear.. at least I know Im getting somewhere. Thanks man!

    Ok Im still working on my figures.. some gestures.. not much. Im gonna finish up Vilppus spherical form dvd later today. Ive been working on this copy of one of my favorite Sargent drawings.. its done now.. took about 4 hours over the course of 2 days. I used to do master copies by placing the original right next to my paper and doing an exact copy.. sort of like bargue exercises.. but I realized that it really wasnt doing crap for me. I did this one using comparative measuring.. with the image on my laptop screen.. and I think it makes tons more sense. The other way I just ran horizontals from the original to mine and lined up every feature.. I didnt see how that would help me.. With this approach I was measuring my saying things like "Ok so the distance from the pupil to the bottom of the nose is the same as the distance from the nose to the chin." etc etc etc. I didnt create a 1:1 copy.. but its still to perfect scale.. and I actually learned something instead of mathematically copying like a machine. so what the hell is the difference? Also .. using this method.. you could draw something 10x bigger or smaller than the original and it will still look correct if youve related everything correctly. I wanted to push the values more but my HB pencil wasnt allowing it. I also did another thumbnail of environments.. I dont know if these are doing a thing for me.. but theyre so fun so I dont give a shit Color this time... oh no.. dangerous territory for me.

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  20. #169
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    Hey just wanted to put up some studies that I forgot from yesterday.. Bridgman shoulders.. and some figures from photoss. Oh and drop me a critique in the critique section.. I put something Im working on in there.. PEACEE

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  21. #170
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    yeah, man, mindless copying will get you nowhere...you really need to think at first when you're drawing, and think a lot. the more you do while thinking, eventually you'll get to the point where you don't need to think as much about it anymore and it comes naturally. you really DO need to work a LOOOOT more from imagination, cause that's the only way to cement in your head what you are learning. what good is all the copying and master studying and all doing if you can't use that info to describe and express what's in YOUR head? i highly suggest READING bridgman (if you don't already), and doing a lot of imagination studies based on what you read that put that to immediate use. that's one thing that helped me so much, because it forced me to really cement that information in my brain, cause there was nothing to fall back on. you'll see it a lot in the earlier pages of my sketchbook. anyway, do some pics, think hard and analyze what's wrong, and try to correct it with the next one. it's good for you.

    g'luck here, man, and thx for stopping by my book. cheering you on.

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  22. #171
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    I see you're doing quite a bit of tidy poses lately. Perhaps concentrate on the flow more? And be very careful when you find the centre of gravity~
    Keep them coming

    And keep going!!

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  23. #172
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    keep doin it, like where your studies are headin'

    For environment thumbs , do a little perspective,
    Draw the horizon line 1st, put people in for scale,pay attention to the balance of dark and light shapes. keep doin em.

    yup hb pencils only go so dark, which is kinda why i don't sketch with em too often.
    Lately I like using a black prismacolor, and use a light hand.

    yeah i like relative/comparative measurements, totally legitimate way of measuring your subjects. one that i use every time I draw something, check to see what lines up horizontally, what lines up parallel, and on diagonals ect.

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    purb36 - thanks for the advice! your right I need to use this brain more after all Im doing this learning so that I can eventually get all my ideas out the way I want.

    BlackDelphin - thanks and good point... they are a bit stiff

    Zazerzs - thanks Zaz.. yea prespective is something ive negelected totally. I need to get crackin on it.. it just seems soooooo boring I need it though so I might as well just do it.

    Heres the work I have in the critique section. Its supposed to be a fantast battlefield.. and this warriors about to end this guy real quick I started with a complicated 3/4 view but I decided Id keep it simple for my first official piece of "art" Im still gettin the composition down before I start fleshing things out. Im starting to collect ref today... axes, swords, shields, poses, etc

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    Still at it eh? I agree with the other guys, I'd like to see you go out and sketch some real peoples and try applying some of what you have been studying to it. As for the battle, left hand guy is a bit far left? Sword tip is feeling left out.

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    Sunseaker - thanks! Yes I do need to apply this stuff. Ill get on that asap. And thanks for the crit

    Ok Ive been busy but thats no excuse. SFA linked me a great site with black and white glamour photography from the 20's and 30's.. really great for value studies. I did the two faces in the little sketchbook from that site.. as well as the digital. Im trying to keep to 4 values average.. avoiding blending too much and also avoiding getting into the features too much. Im trying to let the values and the shapes of the shadows define the features.. instead of using line.. Im hoping this can help me to avoid a cartoon look. I had trouble getting a likeness because I was trying to not pay attention to the specifics of the face.. instead I was studying the light. I need to do tons more of these. Also I did some sketches of faces from my mind in the little sketchbook.. playing with sizes and stuff.. not much. Time to get my ass in gear again

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    and another

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    You are getting pretty swish at photoshop :o Where did that come from all of a sudden? I want me a hat like that. The girl is nice tonally, but theres something odd about her, hairline, eyes maybe?... I can't think what. Sorry, I am knackered Will try and be more helpful next time!

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    Sunseaker - Thanks! Ive been using it a lot more frequently.. and I used to use it a lot more last year.. so Its all coming back to me

    Ok let me dump and run back to my drawing cave Posemaniacs, Figures from photos.. trying to keep em loose, graphite portrait from the website I mentioned.. again letting light define the features.. not line, Then sketchbook doodles.. first a copy from one of my idols Wesley Burt, the rest are really bad imaginative poses and heads.. I need to learn more about the head.. I suck at it. Finally some PS scribbling.. working ideas.. maybe bringing one to completion eventually... yeah right.. Everytime I draw.. I realize how much I dont know.. then I look at great artists and realize I know even less. I have a LONGGGGG road ahead of me.. at least I love it because if it was anything else Id have quit a longg time ago. PEACEEE!

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  30. #179
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    You're doing great with these studies man, keep up that consistency and you'll get a lot better sooner than later! I can definitely relate to those Wes Burt studies as I've done a bunch of those too. There's lots to learn about planes, techniques, and a bunch of other stuff, so it's awesome to see you take those on. Keep going!

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  31. #180
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    Again, ace to see you doing so much, and it's nice that it's varied things you are studying as well, you are right, there is so much to learn! But it looks as though you are picking it up! Lets see a finished image, come on, you know you want to

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