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April 26th, 2009 #1
Minotaur - need some advice/feedback
I really like buffalos and the feeling of pure strength and power they give to me. They look like they are exploding with strength.
I made a couple of sketches about different bulls and after some time I decided to make a Minotaur. I dont really like the look they use in World of warcraft so I tried to go more into the direction of the old movies. Where they used stop motion animation for the creatures.
So after a lot of redoing the background (I still have to traine more on environements and perspective) this is what came up so far. And now I am kind of unsure how to proceed.
I am not sure about the anatomy (even though it is not human) and especially the lighting. I want to get the light realistic.
Hide this ad by registering as a memberApril 26th, 2009 #2Registered User
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Well, the bust part looks frikkin' amazing. His arms and legs seem a lil stumpy tho.
April 26th, 2009 #3
I tried a little on his arms and legs, but I think it is part of the bull-feeling, that his arms and legs are kind of short. All buffalos are really heavy, with a great weight and muscles on the neck on frontial body.
Of course they have a lot of strength in their legs to carry the weight, but they look rather short compared to the rest of the massive body.
To get a better feeling of the volume I trief a paintover and it really helps.
April 26th, 2009 #4
Your perspective lines are a giant sign pointing at this boy parts and screaming "HAW, WANG!"
Not a bad painting at all, although I think the lighting could use some work- the minotaur's body is definitely sinking into the background a bit too much. I do like the head and the background a lot, it has a nice, sculpted look and a good sense of mass.
I don't really know what mood you're going for, but I assume it's pre-battle? I'm not really getting a sense of danger from it, so I'd mess with the poses just a little, or even the color scheme. Right now, to my obviously delinquent mind, it looks like the minotaur's miffed that the guy's staring riiiiiiiiiight at the vanishing point. There's a lot to like it in from a technical standpoint, just figure out what exactly the narrative is and really take a moment to picture the scene in your head.
April 26th, 2009 #5
i think the initial painting is great and mostly just needs highlights on the minotaur. The knight below seems a little problematic, perspective wise, and he needs harder edges. Give him a better stance, being that close to such a beast, he should be poised to strike and dodge fast. Either that or he's one dead knight.
April 26th, 2009 #6
the head and chest seem disproportionately large compared to to his arms, torso, and legs.
April 26th, 2009 #7
Man, you discovered my hidding secret ! XD
I made a new sketch. I dont know why, but this time it really worked well. The picture just drenched out of my fingers ^^
And after painting some while and now looking on the old one again, I can see all the wrong stuff.
I still like the pose of the original one. Maybe I will overwork it on a later time and just a creature shot (Without the guy)
So for now, this is what came out
this is still a sketch and I have to work on the man again. I am still not sure about the way he is standing there. I have never drawn humans like this before.
For now I am really happy with myself
April 26th, 2009 #8
April 26th, 2009 #9
I kind of like the first one better, like the calm before the storm. I really like the design of the minotaur himself, the stocky body and head are working well. I would work on detailing the lighting a little more, to give it a little more punch, and maybe embellish the minotaur a little.
Im thinking about those rings the punch through bulls noses. I suggest toying around with that idea a little.
April 26th, 2009 #10
to add off of what Duman said, i would add some features to add to his personality, like the nose ring or maybe a tattoo..or both. i think it would allow more space for a story
April 27th, 2009 #11
I played with it a little more.
After I changed the minotaur into an african, why dont do the same with the warrior ? I decided on a nubian.
Here we come to the part where I have problems. I always tend to overdo the saturation, so that it doesnt look realistic anymore.
Well here the result for today
April 27th, 2009 #12
Very different image, but it looks awesome. I'm having trouble reading what's going on around the minotaur's waist. Is that a weapon that the guy is holding, or is it a belt? If it's the former, make sure the blade overlaps the bull's body so we lose the tangent. If it's the latter, move the guy's hand so it doesn't form a tangent and look like he's holding the belt.
April 27th, 2009 #13
Interesting thread here dude. I like that standing minotaur although you should watch head size when making a character who is supposed to come across as massive and intimidating. The head is a little on the large size on that one and it comes acorss as a little more like a child. If you wan the lighting to be realistic you should concentrate on just values and making sure you have a definite light source and stick to it. This is something that I forget at times and it enevitably screws up the image. Especially when i try and get all clever with the lighting. Keep it simple seems to work best, ecpecially when working from the imagination. good work though dude, keep it up.
April 27th, 2009 #14
It is a belt, thanks to mention that. I will take care of it while working it out.
Yea, now I can see that as well ^^ Strange that I couldt see it when I was working on it (the first picture)
For now it was just a really rough coloration to give a feeling of where it is supposed to go to. I will have to straighten it up and look for what fits the atmosphere best. Its a really fantastic battle, so maybe it wokrs better with fantastic colors. I will try that out
And I will really have to concentrate on the human.
Up to now I was always able to avoid the form by giving them a cape that hides them or a helmet .... ^^
Last edited by Vaejoun; April 27th, 2009 at 04:43 AM.
April 27th, 2009 #15
So, being a fan of history, biology, paleontology, and mythology, I have one question:
Why'd you make it a Cape Water Buffalo instead of a European Domesticated Bull?
I can understand getting fanciful and whatnot, but this just doesn't seem right. If you've read the myth, you know that the Minotaur was a product of king Minos' wife getting it on with the White Bull of Crete. This bull was supposed to be a peice of cattle with rare beauty.
Three big problems: genetically speaking, Cape Water Buffalo have there own genus all to themselves and are not closely related to proper domesticated cattle (European or Zabu), Cape Water Buffalo are so wild and unpredictable that they've never been domesticated, and lastly; they're African.
Crete was a city founded by Phoenicians/Kan'anite settlement. This plays to the origins of domesticated cattle (which were first domesticated in Turkey, just north of ancient Phoenicia) and the myths of the original Kan'anite people.
All cattle carry the DNA of the ancient, giant, and yes, extinct Aurochs Bull. Further, the origins of Cretian fascination with bulls (and the myth of Theseus and the Minotaur) have proven allusions to the Phoenician/Kan'anite god Moloch Baal.
Research is your friend. Sure, a bos taurus type bull might be a bit common, but you can go other directions to make it a fantastic concept while staying within the extant context of the myth. Make it be a patchy albino mutant or something.
Also, explore Theseus more. He was supposed to be quite young in the myth and wielded the magical sword of his co-father, Aegeus (who was a "goat man!"). Run with that.
I hope this helps to give some ideas.
April 27th, 2009 #16
One more thing:
The Minotaur is a specific monster, not type of monster (though it is often used as such). The name actually translates to "Minos' Taurus" or "Minos' Bull." If you wanted a general ancient Greek name for a human/bull hybrid you'd use "Anthrotaur." And for a Cape Water Buffalo "Anthrocaffer."
Yeah . . . I'm that guy.
April 28th, 2009 #17
Thanks for the information, some of that was new to me.
Even though I already changed the whole topic to africa. The Aurochs bull is now a cape buffalo and Theseus has been replaced by a Nubian man.
The area is sandy and the details the characters will get arent minoen or greek either.
Its just a personal work, playing with the story and idea. So no need for mythological correctness ^^
Here what its till now. I concentrated on the values and worked in grey scale even though I am not sure If it really works If I just add a "Color" layer to get the same effekt as if I had just painted it.
While painting, I noticed that the horns had shrunked over the tiime ^^ I made them a little bigger again. I am still not sure about the man and the position of the Minotaur in the picture.
I need some feedback and maybe value correction for that. Because I have to work on a Laptop its hard to say if the values are right or not. (Damn Swing-monitor)
April 28th, 2009 #18
I think you got a good start, I'd get reference of someone doing that pose or similar and buffalo reference as well and print it off or have it handy to refer to as you paint. I did a real quick paintover to sorta show the way I work sometimes when starting with Black and White. Asuming you're in photoshop, on another layer draw in the arrow and letters telling my incredibly stubborn brain "Lightsource!" then on another layer (once the black and white values are pretty much there) you can add an adjustment layer Hue and saturation and I generally colorize to a blue, not too saturated but it depends on what you're wanting. then I paint on another layer the colours sticking to the values of the underlying BW study. and making sure I'm sticking to the light source. This works pretty well for me when I'm working from the black and white values. I did change your painting in the shoulder/chest area you might notice. having your arms like that flattens out the pecs so not so much bulge is apparent. reason for the reference.
April 28th, 2009 #19
thanks a lot. That worked. Even if its frustratingstarting over and over again ^^°
You got me there. When I write a crit somewhere I always tell them to get refs if they dont really know how it looks and what am I doing ? XD
Ok, I got some bull refs and refreshed my anatomy knowledge. Even though I still have to go into the rip-muscles and the shoulder again. Its not easy to get pictures for such a pose.
I will make him look a little more evil later, mainly the eyes ( The earlier pictures gave a better feeling of that)
At last I tried to make light and shadow visible by using a color. Its a nice effect and this should be my picture for this evening.
April 28th, 2009 #20
Its coming along swimmingly, your getting the lighting down quite nicely in the last version, goodwork.
April 28th, 2009 #21
i dunno, there is something so lovely and haunting about that first composition, i'd really like to see it finished. it looks classical, the others are nice but not timeless, more like what you would see on a trading card, you guys agree?
-start a revolution.
April 28th, 2009 #22Registered User
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The last pic is an improvement, but it is still hard for me to tell where the light is coming from. The background and colors imply overhead diffused light like on an overcast day, but it looks more like he is weakly spot-lit from various angles if that makes sense. In lighting like this you have to let some areas fall flat and stay in the shadow a bit more, and the bounced light from the ground should be almost non-existent. Hope this helps.
April 29th, 2009 #23
Man this is getting frustrating. I have the feeling that I am getting no where.
Well... it improves.. but veeeery slowly.
I spent too much time on working out the face muscles and such things, but that was all senseless when I dont bring down the lightning first. And I bring in color now. I just have the feeling that this works better for me instead of pure grey.
I thought about starting over again, made a lot of sketches and am kind of lost.
Maybe I will make a little series of different minotaurs, like the classical greek, the african and and asian one. Maybe and american but for now its just this one.
I want him too look wild and agressiv, because thats what this buffalos are.
He is black and big so I want him too look. Really massive.
And theres a need to give the picture an african feeling.
In some sketches I thought about making him appear out of a sandstorm. You know this giant black body comes out of the cloud really close to the guy. Maybe grass...savanne...sand....
I really need some adice how to proceed now or I will loose my motivation. T_T
Heres another sketch.
Last edited by Vaejoun; April 29th, 2009 at 05:05 AM.
April 29th, 2009 #24
There are good and bad news:
The good: I finally got it right
The bad: I dont know how. I was frustrated and did what I always do when I'm frustrated: I start smearing on different layers and hope that something good happens... and it did. Suddenly he popped out and looked just great.
Well that worked, but its not very professional isnt it ?
At least the guy on the ground went very smoothly.
Here how it looks so far. Have to go a little closer and make a few things cleaner in the close up.
May 24th, 2009 #25
Hi again. I have nearly finnished my other project so now I start working on this piece again. I really want to finnish it.
What I want to achieve is a finnished looking piece without loosing myself into correcting every line. A finnished work just looks better when it still has a some sketchy flaire.
Here is how it looks at the moment. Still not done of course but it gives an impression. The secon one was a random paint over to get loose a little. I really like the total unbelievable proportions and extremely overdone superweight tauren. Maybe I keep that idea for something later. Or I just make a Speedpainting out of hit.
To the picture itself. I am not sure about the bg. It should have an africain flaire, but the green somehow disturbs me.
Ideas ? Tips, hints or crits ?
PS: I dont want him to have a totally human like body so its ok when the legs are small.
May 24th, 2009 #26
i think his face looks way too friendly now.. make it scarier man
May 24th, 2009 #27
too dark imho.
like the subject matter though!
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May 24th, 2009 #28
wow this is coming along very nicely! altho i like the color scheme from april the 27th those colors really made the picture sing. keep it up mate!
"Most eyes skip the details... But its worth putting in the effort for the ones that appreciate it."
May 24th, 2009 #29
May 25th, 2009 #30
Thank you all.
Here is the actual picture after I worked it out.
Although it is as good as finnished it still lacks something.
Not sure how I should say it... the pros have this flow and easyness in their pictures that keeps some of the sketch. Mine looks so...overworked. As if you could see how much trouble I had with it.
Well... heres the picture for now:
Comparing them now I like the version from the 29th more.