View Poll Results: What do you think to a super-posable artist's manikin?

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  • I support this and might buy more than one!

    96 26.74%
  • I support this and would buy one!

    230 64.07%
  • I support this but wouldn't buy it

    23 6.41%
  • I'm not bothered...

    10 2.79%
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  1. #1
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    Talking Please support - Super-articulated pose ref manikin.

    ** PLEASE NOTE: this is no longer a CA project or being pursued by CA members etc... as far as creating a figure. HOWEVER!! there are a few companies out there as of Oct 2017 when I am writing this that ARE creating very much what I was hoping for as far as accurate pose ref... please see later/last posts for details. If nothing else this helps prove yes we as creatives ARE interested! **

    Hello all CA peoples - artists, designers, animators & all people who think it's high time a more useful & fully posable manikin is created and widely available for us creatives.

    Before I go any further I would like to express thanks to Rockhead, Sakievich and William Whitaker for bringing peoples attention to this excellent figure and opportunity.

    I have been in contact with awesome sculptor Dave Cortes who created this Spiderman figure back in 2003/4 - it's 18" tall with 67 points of articulation (inc hands and fingers, feet etc) and already used by many artists worldwide as a manikin of sorts.

    Edit: As I have said further down the page 'For now I'm hoping the super-posable manikin could be a direct replacement for the classic wooden manikin as a realistic reference for poses' - please keep this in mind when making suggestions for this manikin - realistic pose ref is the focus. Other ideas and suggestions are more than welcome though - who knows, we might get enough support to encourage a few different versions to be produced eventually!

    Another edit: Plans have changed! - Jason Manley has contacted me (see later in this thread) to say MassiveBlack/ConceptArt are very interested in helping create a super-articulated artist's manikin! Excellent news!

    Yet another edit: Things had completely ground to a halt.. but! another possibility has arisen in the form of a fellow CA member working on a design ...

    Attachment 655680

    Please see the original thread in 'references and inspirations' for lots more info, experiences and cool pics: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=26396

    Now what I'm proposing is to ask Dave Cortes to create an artist's specific version of this figure *please see the edit above* and he has already expressed interest in looking into it if there is enough interest!

    So come on CA - lets show support by voting in the poll attached to this thread!

    Please use this thread to post comments, experiences and pics of your own 18" spidey & suggestions for the possible new manikin.

    More info on Dave Cortes can be found at his sites:

    www.inuart.com
    www.pugzee.com

    Thanks for being involved - I really want this to become a reality!
    Last edited by The7Artist7; October 11th, 2017 at 02:09 PM.


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  4. #2
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    Yeah i would support this .

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    Think it would be great if there were more options for people who don't have access to live models on a regular basis...but admittedly I'd say cost would be a major factor.

    For example...there are already Asian Ball-Jointed Dolls which are rather articulated, can stand on their own, have interchangeable hair/clothes/eyes, and are ~20 inches tall...but they aren't exactly anatomically correct (heads are too big for example, and it creeps me out that all the guys look like girls), and the cost is prohibitive ($500 is low-end). Also depends on the maker/model as to how much torso articulation is in the torso.
    Last edited by Aphotic Phoenix; April 25th, 2009 at 09:47 PM.

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  7. #4
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    i remember reading that thread a while back and was really wanting one until i realized it was a few years old. I would definitely buy one in a heartbeat.
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    I would buy one.
    It should have standard proportions tough.

    Perhaps it could have anatomical information painted on or sculped in, this would make it easier for beginners to know what goes where.

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    I would like to buy this as well, do you have an estimated price maybe? That would decide if I would buy one or more than one

    I'd like this figure to be in a neutral colour like gray, or a skin tone wouldn't bother me much either. The muscles should be reasonably articulated (so that we can see different muscle bulges, but it should be way less articulated than spidey. Also I read that William Whitaker bought one which he painted gray and he sanded off some of the largest bulges, which turned out to look pretty good. He said that he took off some of the crotch area as well, so that the legs had some more movability.

    I'll be following this idea and this thread because such a mannikin would really really help my sketches.

    Love
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    P.S. I thought that maybe the big toe and the other four toes could be two separate pivot points instead of one?

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    I bought that figure back when I was looking for things for students to draw. If you're going to get an artist to make/sell something for art purposes, it'd be much better to have an accurate skeleton, with detachable muscle pieces, connecting exactly where and how they should on the figure. I'd buy that.

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    I agree with TASmith - I'd also be very interested in some kind of ecorche figure too, at affordable prices for student budget
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  15. #10
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    Thanks everyone so far for getting involved and showing support! :thumbs up:

    Time for me to clarify a few points methinks!

    Aphotic Phoenix - yes price is certainly a factor here as the proposed manikin needs to be affordable. Price is one of the main things I want to work out asap - as soon as I have an idea from Dave Cortes I'll let you all know

    Equality & Jake -thanks for the support!

    Rubbadub & Marleen - Good point - I forgot to make clear that the proposed manikin is intended to have standard realistic proportions/build and muscle tone of an average athletic male and I would like to see it in a flat colour - not the over-exaggerated body-type on the Spidey figure! I would also love to see a female version of this super-posable manikin made at the same time but we'll see!

    TASmith, Atastrophea & Rubbadub - I feel going the route of detachable muscle groups, although very useful to certain artistic situations, would raise the complexity and price of the proposed figure to an impractical level if done for the main figure. Having said that, I do have plans to discuss a range of versions with Dave Cortes that would cater for those needing a greater focus on anatomy. I'll let you know as soon as I can whether this level of extra detail is viable within a price range that's affordable.

    For now I'm hoping the super-posable manikin could be a direct replacement for the classic wooden manikin as a realistic reference for poses. I like the idea about the toes Marleen - thanks! (also I think you meant that the muscles should be less 'exaggerated' not less 'articulated'?)

    Thanks again - keep the votes and comments coming!

    (note: I may not always be able to reply right away but will keep checking this thread so don't worry - I'll be reading comments!)
    Last edited by The7Artist7; April 26th, 2009 at 12:03 PM.

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    I have just spent several times the original asking price for this because of its scarcity. I'd gladly spend the same again to get my hands on an artist's version.

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    I would buy more than one of these if I could find them.

    First, I love Spidey, and then, this comes in very handy.

    I actually wouldn't mind if it would be another Spider Man figure.
    Last edited by Annihilator; April 26th, 2009 at 03:52 PM.

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    yes, I was thinking more of a separate muscly specialist one on top of the initial mannequin concept.

    I would like to say that although spideys colours are distracting and I'm generally in favour of a flat colour, I have already found it useful that his front is red and his back blue, as it shows when I have got overexcited posing him and twisted his limbs beyond the natural twist a human is capable of.....

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    The biggest hurdle with using figures of this sort is the lack of any shoulder movement (trapezius, clavicle, shoulder blades.) That severely limits its usefulness.
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    My bf has one of these. It's awesome. I'd love a flat-color artists' version, especially since I want to have at least 3 figures to do multi-figure compositions. *But* they would be even better if a little bit of the crotch was removed so the leg can go one more click inward, and if he could raise his arms above his head. I wouldn't care about a female version though just because these are useful for posing, weight, and foreshortening, and beyond that you have to make up the details of the figure to get anything realistic, so translating it to female instead of male isn't that much more work. If there were both male and female I'd get both, it's just not a requirement to me.

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    I like the idea. If it was well proportioned then I would consider buying one.

  24. #17
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    Thanks dbclemons - It's a valid thought, but having said that, on the spidey figure the shoulder ball-joints are also mounted on horizontal pivots which enables a much more accurate upper-body twisted pose (running, punching, reaching, etc).
    Even a more natural body shaped version of the spidey figure, with exactly the same mobility and pivot points, would be just so much more realistic and useful then those wooden manikins that are next to pointless for pose ref. What impressed me so much was that Dave Cortes has already been incredibly ingenious with his pivot points on the spidey figure. It may not answer every possible need but would be such a step up from what we currently have available, I believe it's worth pursuing and asking for. And as Dave has already hinted at looking into even more points of articulation - that's just more awesome to look forward to!

    Nonie - good points I have read similar comments in the other thread - thank you for posting them here! As for the female version I agree it's not essential but would be helpful for proportions.


    Thanks again to everyone who has voted and left comments so far
    Last edited by The7Artist7; April 26th, 2009 at 09:20 PM.

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    Having used Dollfies in the past, I'd definitely would rather have one of these, just for the more points of articulation.

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    I would at least buy 2!

  27. #20
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    I would really like to see a variation with half of the model, or the whole model made with the planes of the form.

    Sort of like the 2 planes sculptures here.

    http://philippefaraut.com/supplies.html

    I think that would a very very helpful asset.
    Last edited by Muz; April 30th, 2009 at 05:33 PM.

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  29. #21
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    Ok - quick update as I have been doing a load of research!

    Chatted on the phone to Dave Cortes (nice guy!) and it seems it's not quite as easy as simply getting him to sculpt a new figure - to get even a simple figure with that amount of articulation still needs another company to invest in it. However! He is still interested in being involved if possible and gave me a few companies names who may be able to help.

    At this point I'd just like make clear that I have no particular connection, training or knowledge of the sculpt, figure, manikin industry or previous connection to Dave etc - I'm just a freelance illustrator who would like to see a super-posable manikin widely available at a good price ...so I'm doing what I can to try and raise awareness of the need. I'm finding stuff out as I go and doing my best to give you all accurate info

    So - after talking to Dave I contacted another company in the US called 'Freedom-of-teach' link and had a very interesting conversation to a lady there. They really are a uber quality company and focus mainly on anatomy ref (all those of you wanting anatomy manikins should check them out). It was very interesting to find out (if I understood correctly) they are in the process of creating a 24" super realistic fully posable skeleton with removable anatomy that can be fixed to it - I dread to think how expensive it could be but I'll be watching out for that one (again don't quote me on this but I think she said it should be available around 2011). Also there was mention of a posable manikin with a realistic flexible muscle / skin layer over the top. I'm hoping to confirm details from them soon on these and would love to know what kind of price they might be (as their other manikins etc retail around $200-$500 I would guess something similar - gulp!)

    So - I decided that I needed to see if I could find anything else and also look into the 'Art S. Buck' posable figure from Sideshow collectables link (search for 'art s. buck' on the site to see the variations).

    It seems this is much more the price range so I'm planning to contact them and see if they might be interested in possibly working with Dave in manufacturing a slightly bigger version with the pose-ability similar to the 18" spidey (avoiding any copyright issues of course!)

    I also have started looking a little more at the base bodies used in very posable figurines - it seems the figurine industry is working harder to get realistic poses than the art industry right now - here is a little taster of new 12" bodies by Sideshow and a few other links:

    http://www.sideshowtoy.com/?p=4373

    http://www.hottoys.com.hk/product.php?cat=21

    http://www.hobbygen.com/index.php?ma...3ad991328dea1d

    and lol http://idleparis.co.uk/warning-posab...-figure-ahead/

    Will keep peoples upto date if I find out more info - please keep registering your interest in the proposed manikin by voting and commenting thanks!



    Edit: Oh yeh - Dave Cortes has mentioned a few times he'd like to become a member here at conceptart - that'd be really cool
    Last edited by The7Artist7; April 30th, 2009 at 09:11 AM.

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    The Anatomy Tools sculpts are excellent. I got to see them in person and talk to one of their reps at the NY ComicCon this year. They are nice and big and well done, BUT non articulated. They would have been amazing when I was a student learning anatomy, but now I can't justify the expense (even if now and then it would still be useful).

    I'd love to see an updated artist's manniken. I've actually been scouring toystores looking for anything that might be useful, but very few are any good (although Stikfas are decent)

    If a highly articulated figure could be made and kept to the $50-$60 range I think it would be a HUGE success. More than that and I'd think it's mass market potential drops off since wooden figures (as useles as they are) only go for about $10.

    My suggestion would be to put together a slick looking proposal package talking about Dave Cortes's work, show some pics of the Spidey figure to get the idea across of what we want, talk about the potentially HUGE market worldwide from professionals to students, and then see if you can interest an existing toy or art supply manufacturer (someone who already has the facilities to produce this sort of thing) to take the project on. I'd actually think that Dave himself would have contacts with the right sort of people to suggest something like this since he's been working steadily in the toy field.

    Just brainstorming, but I could see a whole line done. The basic male/female, then versions with the muscle groups painted on, and then very basic featureless versions which are essentially just slightly boxier basic shapes and planes (think Loomis manniken, easier to teach students what we mean when we say "see the big general forms"). If they were affordable I'd buy one of each (although I expect the Loomis style version would be my favorite).

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  32. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Wilson View Post
    The Anatomy Tools sculpts are excellent. I got to see them in person and talk to one of their reps at the NY ComicCon this year. They are nice and big and well done, BUT non articulated. They would have been amazing when I was a student learning anatomy, but now I can't justify the expense (even if now and then it would still be useful).
    I agree - I realized they were not articulated and despite being awesomely detailed, your average artist cannot justify anywhere near that expense! Having said that, it will be very interesting to see what they come up with with the posable manikins that they're working on.

    Quote Originally Posted by J Wilson View Post
    I'd love to see an updated artist's manniken. I've actually been scouring toystores looking for anything that might be useful, but very few are any good (although Stikfas are decent)

    If a highly articulated figure could be made and kept to the $50-$60 range I think it would be a HUGE success. More than that and I'd think it's mass market potential drops off since wooden figures (as useles as they are) only go for about $10.
    Exactly!

    Quote Originally Posted by J Wilson View Post
    My suggestion would be to put together a slick looking proposal package talking about Dave Cortes's work, show some pics of the Spidey figure to get the idea across of what we want, talk about the potentially HUGE market worldwide from professionals to students, and then see if you can interest an existing toy or art supply manufacturer (someone who already has the facilities to produce this sort of thing) to take the project on. I'd actually think that Dave himself would have contacts with the right sort of people to suggest something like this since he's been working steadily in the toy field.
    Again yes! - I agree and this is why I'm trying to spark the interest of people in the figure / manikin industry simply from an artist's point of view. Unfortunately I don't have the time or effort to get a package together that would do the opportunity justice, so am doing what I can to encourage this. If you could put something together that would be great as I believe you have really grasped what we're after and put it across well Having said that, I also agree that Dave Cortes is in the best situation to contact companies and work out that side of things. With the artist community behind him on this surely somebody would be interested!

    Quote Originally Posted by J Wilson View Post
    Just brainstorming, but I could see a whole line done. The basic male/female, then versions with the muscle groups painted on, and then very basic featureless versions which are essentially just slightly boxier basic shapes and planes (think Loomis manniken, easier to teach students what we mean when we say "see the big general forms"). If they were affordable I'd buy one of each (although I expect the Loomis style version would be my favorite).
    Yes, yep and I agree!


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    i don't know, i'm starting to really prefer using Daz Studio and/or Poser for stuff like this. Daz Studio is a free app and comes with some free 3d models. not as easy to pose and light as quickly as a physical model would be, but still...

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    I would think the problem with using a 3d package rather than a physical model (and one reason why the Spidey is so great) is weight... With a physical model you have to balance it to get it to stand, just like a real person would have to balance, so the weight is realistic.

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    Also, the last time I used 3d software for this sort of thing I found the controls a little clunky, and the model could be set to move in very unnatural ways, disrupting the mesh very nastily along the way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonie View Post
    With a physical model you have to balance it to get it to stand, just like a real person would have to balance, so the weight is realistic.
    I agree with you however, and i dont think the question has been brought up already, i think some sort of stand maybe like those wooden manikins have would be necessary for this manikin to-be too as AFAIK its the easiest way to have them stay still in jumping, falling and other out of balance poses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by S.M View Post
    I agree with you however, and i dont think the question has been brought up already, i think some sort of stand maybe like those wooden manikins have would be necessary for this manikin to-be too as AFAIK its the easiest way to have them stay still in jumping, falling and other out of balance poses.
    Yep - certainly a valid point for those 'action shots' - something I had thought about but not brought up yet - thanks!

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    yeah you do not need a sculptor for this. toys are best done nowadays in zbrush. ca would be interested in helping for this as it needs to be done. Mr. Whitaker and I talked about this a couple years ago. We have a toy partner who can manage production in China and have the MB shanghai team to make the model at cost with accurate anatomy too...it could be done affordably, especially if it is flat color. I would love to help. Drop me a PM if you guys are interested in further discussions. CA may even support with finance...and can definitely help with global distribution.

    I want one too.


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  41. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.M View Post
    I agree with you however, and i dont think the question has been brought up already, i think some sort of stand maybe like those wooden manikins have would be necessary for this manikin to-be too as AFAIK its the easiest way to have them stay still in jumping, falling and other out of balance poses.
    Oh that's a good point. I've just used string and hung one of the smaller size figures from a lamp before but the bigger guy would need more support.

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