Please support - Super-articulated pose ref manikin. - Page 2
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View Poll Results: What do you think to a super-posable artist's manikin?

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Thread: Please support - Super-articulated pose ref manikin.

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Manley View Post
    yeah you do not need a sculptor for this. toys are best done nowadays in zbrush. ca would be interested in helping for this as it needs to be done. Mr. Whitaker and I talked about this a couple years ago. We have a toy partner who can manage production in China and have the MB shanghai team to make the model at cost with accurate anatomy too...it could be done affordably, especially if it is flat color. I would love to help. Drop me a PM if you guys are interested in further discussions. CA may even support with finance...and can definitely help with global distribution.

    I want one too.


    Jason
    That sir ... is totally awesome - you have PM!

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  2. #32
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    Wow, very promising update!

    I would buy more than one if the price was right, I'm currently trying to get a hold of a regular spidey for now.

    I can't really think of any points that haven't been covered either, I really hope this comes to fruition!

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  3. #33
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    Just to let people know - I've not stopped trying to make this happen and have talked to Jason M. briefly - looks like MB / CA are more than willing to do this which is awesome!

    Just need to sort some things out and get in contact with William Whitaker to discuss details.

    One of the first things I want to sort out is the kind of price we're looking at - there has been some costs/prices mentioned but don't want to post anything here until I know for sure. One thing I am sure of - if the proposed manikin is anything like I think it will be since speaking with Jason, it'll be awesome!

    Please keep showing support - thanks so much to everyone who has so far - you rock!



    Last edited by The7Artist7; May 13th, 2009 at 08:19 PM.
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  5. #34
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    Just a couple of ideas, excuse me if I duplicate, but I’ve yet to read the entire thread…
    Every figure I have owned for this purpose has quickly lost its ability to hold a pose.
    Except for one, “Deleter” makes it and it is still going strong 6 years on…
    It is the most pose able and natural figure I have found, unfortunately, it has the muscle tone of a stick figure.
    It has strong magnets in the feet and I can get one legged “Bruce Lee” balanced poses.
    Perhaps R&D this figure…
    Also, perhaps look into the “Hot toys” muscular figure, with the rubber formed muscle overlay.
    Maybe create various models with different price ranges. Some of these professional artists will do strange things to improve the quality of their work. Or so I hear. :]

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  7. #35
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    "TASmith, Atastrophea & Rubbadub - I feel going the route of detachable muscle groups, although very useful to certain artistic situations, would raise the complexity and price of the proposed figure to an impractical level if done for the main figure. Having said that, I do have plans to discuss a range of versions with Dave Cortes that would cater for those needing a greater focus on anatomy. I'll let you know as soon as I can whether this level of extra detail is viable within a price range that's affordable."

    Some muscles are very small, but if you could combine them into simpler muscle groups that work together, using a soft, stretchable rubber, it'd give students the best possible understanding - especially having a skeleton with joints that work the same way as a real skeleton. A simple peg and hole system to attach them wouldn't be too expensive. There could also be a simple gut piece combining all the major organs that'd fit in under the ribcage, go down to the pelvis, and be held together by the abs/lats.

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    How about a male and female version since we are going into the mannakin being an anatomical model. The female being slightly shorter, smaller rib cage, wider pelvis, etc..

    Barbie lacks some important stuff, shapes that should overlap etc so all I can do is dress her and brush her hair.

    Hehe.

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  9. #37
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    Thanks for all the suggestions!

    TASmith - just so you know, it's not that I don't like the idea of flexible detachable muscles (I happen to think it sounds cool!) it's that I've been given the distinct idea it would raise the price to a impractical level - after all the aim of the main manikin here is pose ref not anatomy (we'll be aiming for the best anatomy possible within price). I'm not sure if I already posted this info but 'Freedom of Teach' are in the process of creating something uber detailed like you describe already. If you give them a call and inquire about it I'm sure they'll be happy to let you know basic details http://www.freedomofteach.com/products/

    zaorr - yes I also think Male and Female would be great if possible

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  10. #38
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    All I'm saying is I've seen similar toys that weren't so expensive, having worked in a toy store. They used to have those anatomical models with the see-through skin, where you could open it up and take out all the organs. And most Metroid figures have parts you can detach and such. It wouldn't have to be a fortune - it depends on the quality of plastic you use.

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  12. #39
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    I really like this idea, I'd love to get one as long as its priced reasonably. Also I would much prefer separate male and female versions. If it was successfull enough they could even branch out and make specialized versions (manga style, fat bodies, child version ect)

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    I support this one completely, male-female versions would be nice.

    MY SKETCHBOOK IN BIG LETTERS: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=116474
    COMPLETE LIST OF THE FORGOTTEN SKETCHBOOKS: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...=1#post1992378
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  14. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TASmith View Post
    All I'm saying is I've seen similar toys that weren't so expensive, having worked in a toy store. They used to have those anatomical models with the see-through skin, where you could open it up and take out all the organs. And most Metroid figures have parts you can detach and such. It wouldn't have to be a fortune - it depends on the quality of plastic you use.
    Interesting With Jason M. saying MB/CA is very enthusiastic about producing this/these manikin/s it's kinda what they're willing to do really. I personally would prefer a less complicated and more durable pose-ref manikin and then an anatomy version like you describe with the stretchy muscles - that would be awesome!

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    Quote Originally Posted by The7Artist7 View Post
    Hello all CA peoples - artists, designers, animators & all people who think it's high time a more useful & fully posable manikin is created and widely available for us creatives.

    Before I go any further I would like to express thanks to Rockhead, Sakievich and William Whitaker for bringing peoples attention to this excellent figure and opportunity.

    I have been in contact with awesome sculptor Dave Cortes who created this Spiderman figure back in 2003/4 - it's 18" tall with 67 points of articulation (inc hands and fingers, feet etc) and already used by many artists worldwide as a manikin of sorts.
    While I agree that the current wooden doodads leave a bit to be desired, do we really need THAT MANY points of articulation in an artists manican? I mean, the point of artists manicans is just to give a general idea of the pose and propotions. Having every finger joint articulated seems a bit superfluous and feels to me like something that will cause artists to copy too closely from their action figure rather than from a working knowledge of anatomy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Coene View Post
    While I agree that the current wooden doodads leave a bit to be desired, do we really need THAT MANY points of articulation in an artists manican? I mean, the point of artists manicans is just to give a general idea of the pose and propotions. Having every finger joint articulated seems a bit superfluous and feels to me like something that will cause artists to copy too closely from their action figure rather than from a working knowledge of anatomy.
    Hey Peter,

    Thanks for your thoughts on this.

    I'd just like to clarify a few things: My aim with promoting this has been to work towards a really helpful artist's-specific manikin so creatives can actually use it as ref. My aim has not been to just support something that is 'cool because it might have so many joints'!

    While you make the point of the possibility of causing artist's to copy too closely ... isn't that the danger with any ref?? Personally, I see it as an excellent opportunity to have an easily adjustable and expressive point of ref that you can view from any angle. Jointed fingers would enable the manikin to be much more expressive - and I would certainly encourage any artist to study anatomy and explore ways of improving their skills

    Also ...I'm proposing an artist's manikin not an 'action figure' lol

    Last edited by The7Artist7; May 18th, 2009 at 12:31 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The7Artist7 View Post
    Hey Peter,

    Thanks for your thoughts on this - this is the exact reason I started the thread so we can see if people are interested - to not be interested is a perfectly valid viewpoint! My aim with promoting this has been to work towards a really helpful artist's specific manikin (and hopefully a range of manikins at some point that address different levels of detail) so creatives can actually use it as ref. My aim has not been to just support something that is 'cool because it might have so many joints'!

    While you make the point of the possibility of causing artist's to copy too closely ... isn't that the danger with any ref?? Personally, I see it as an excellent opportunity to have an easily adjustable and expressive point of ref that you can view from any angle. Jointed fingers would enable the manikin to be much more expressive - and I would certainly encourage any artist to study anatomy and explore ways of improving their skills

    Also ...I'm proposing an artist's manikin not an 'action figure' lol
    I am interested, however, what I think is more important than moving fingers is making sure that the important joints: hips, waist, shoulders, etc, move in a way consistant with the actual movement of the human body. (which if you really think about it is a lot more difficult than moving fingers) I'm not interested in molded muscles because muscles are meant to squash and stretch so I feel there is no point in seeing them in hard plastic. However if you could get a working model to represent the movement of the scapula and clavical I would definatly buy that model if for no other reason.

    Expression I can come up with myself, anatomically possible poses, while I can draw from my own knowledge a lot, are a bit more difficult to acheive and are where a model becomes very helpful.

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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Coene View Post
    I am interested, however, what I think is more important than moving fingers is making sure that the important joints: hips, waist, shoulders, etc, move in a way consistant with the actual movement of the human body. (which if you really think about it is a lot more difficult than moving fingers) I'm not interested in molded muscles because muscles are meant to squash and stretch so I feel there is no point in seeing them in hard plastic. However if you could get a working model to represent the movement of the scapula and clavical I would definatly buy that model if for no other reason.

    Expression I can come up with myself, anatomically possible poses, while I can draw from my own knowledge a lot, are a bit more difficult to acheive and are where a model becomes very helpful.
    Oops sorry - you replied before I had finished editing my post!

    This is exactly what I'm hoping for - as you say the important joints actually having the ability to pose correctly. I also agree that, especially with a manikin for pose ref, basic shape, structure and movement consistent with the human body is much more important than moulded muscles. Having said that, what has been discussed with Jason Manley already is a much more realistic build as far as anatomy goes, rather than a super-hero muscle-bound figure like good old Spidey!

    With the hands/fingers I think many people like myself would find it useful and a great addition - but please understand they are not the main focus! You wouldn't have to use them if you didn't want to! Again, this is in no way meant to be a replacement for good anatomy study but rather a useful tool to compliment it

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    Quote Originally Posted by The7Artist7 View Post
    Oops sorry - you replied before I had finished editing my post!

    This is exactly what I'm hoping for - as you say the important joints actually having the ability to pose correctly. I also agree that, especially with a manikin for pose ref, basic shape, structure and movement consistent with the human body is much more important than moulded muscles. Having said that, what has been discussed with Jason Manley already is a much more realistic build as far as anatomy goes, rather than a super-hero muscle-bound figure like good old Spidey!

    With the hands/fingers I think many people like myself would find it useful and a great addition - but please understand they are not the main focus! You wouldn't have to use them if you didn't want to! Again, this is in no way meant to be a replacement for good anatomy study but rather a useful tool to compliment it

    In that case I might be interested but I'll wait to hold final judgement on whether I buy or not untill I actually see it. I'm just afraid it will end up looking like the grey artists models I saw in the ACCD student store which looked like colorless ken dolls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Coene View Post
    In that case I might be interested but I'll wait to hold final judgement on whether I buy or not untill I actually see it. I'm just afraid it will end up looking like the grey artists models I saw in the ACCD student store which looked like colorless ken dolls.
    No worries

    Out of interest are you referring to the Art S. Buck figure?

    I think with MB/CA and hopefully William Whitaker (he started all this years ago!) working on this if it goes ahead it should be pretty good!

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    Quote Originally Posted by The7Artist7 View Post
    No worries

    Out of interest are you referring to the Art S. Buck figure?
    That would be the one.

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    Just came across this thread, but I've been interested in buying that poseable spidey figurine for quite some time now (though it seems they're becoming very hard to find).
    So my question for The7Artist7 : any news on this ?

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  27. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by wim View Post
    Just came across this thread, but I've been interested in buying that poseable spidey figurine for quite some time now (though it seems they're becoming very hard to find).
    So my question for The7Artist7 : any news on this ?
    I've not forgotten this but am busy at the moment - latest news is I'm attempting to get a time that I can discuss this with William Whitaker (He was the first to discuss the idea of Massive Black producing an artist's specific posable manikin with Jason Manley about 4 years back)

    The main problem with this is how busy William is and the project is currently proving slow to progress. As soon as I have time I'll be putting some more effort into this and hope to push progress forward.

    Thanks again to everyone showing support for this - I'm really hoping for a result that will be an inspiring pose manikin.

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    awww....! i want one!

    this looks super cool, and i just wonder if you guys already have any estimates of the costs? i'll definitely by one if it's in my reach!

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    Also make me a massive black cock action figure! Yeah! ;p

    I have one of those big spidey's, the posability is very good, but I'd totally go in for an uncoloured one, I just cant bring myself to spray him white... maybe I didn't buy him solely for posing :p

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    This sounds awesome, I could definitely use this, and if the price was right, i'd def. buy more than one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noa K View Post
    awww....! i want one!...

    ...i'll definitely by one if it's in my reach!
    This is one of the first things I want to work out as one of my personal aims with this is for it to be affordable for all levels of artist. Whether I'll achieve that aim I'm not sure... but at the least I'd like it to not take too long to save up for!

    All depends on complexity of the design, materials used, quantity produced, etc - at the end of the day it's up to Jason/MB/CA

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    any news on this?

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    Yeah any progress? I'm really keen to see this happen. I'll help get this going any way I can The7Artist7, pm me if you need any help. And if you don't get it happening soon I might beat you to the punch

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    Hey B-nine & Luke M I agree this is taking way too long to get anywhere!

    I have been very busy but I've not given up or gone away - unfortunately William Whitaker (who Jason asked me to contact as the main guy to work on designing this) has been hard/slow to communicate with due to him also being very busy I think.

    I will make time to contact him and try again to get an idea of how best to progress

    So - hang in there peoples - and thanks for the kick up the backside to keep at it!

    As soon as there is any progress I will post here

    and oh yeah - you all Rock for the amount of support you've shown for this!

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    just thought i'd chime in: another nice alternative to the big spiderman is this one. it doesn't have quite as many joints,but is highly poseable aswell,easier to carry around and a sleek black all over. highly recommend it.

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    Thanks Carni - would be interesting to see a slightly higher res pic without the glider thingy.

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