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April 24th, 2009 #1
Warner & Gore go to bat for the Planet/Future
I know it can get distracting, what with everything else that's going on, but there is some very important legislation being debated in congress right now.
American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009
I thought Warner stepped up big time today - calling on his colleagues to "establish a beachhead" on this issue, to fight for our children's future like we did in WW2, and things of that sort. Hopefully team Obama can get the ball rolling, so we’ll have something for the summit in Copenhagen this December.
Gingrich had a lot to say as well, but since I don't agree with any of it, I don't feel a strong need to link that segment.
Anyway, if you have an interest, (and you should), now might be a good time to write your local representatives.
Last edited by Jasonwclark; April 24th, 2009 at 10:52 PM.
Hide this ad by registering as a memberApril 24th, 2009 #2
carbon based global warming has not been proven. Its a religion. It a great way to create some new taxes for our children though. With little benefit to anyone.
Looks like he is establishing a beachhead on fantasy island.
Last edited by Blahm; April 24th, 2009 at 11:45 PM.http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=48347 ------Sketchbook
April 25th, 2009 #3
I can't see any point in arguing the science. Clearly there are many people who would dispute it. Fortunately for the rest of us, being ordained a PhD in Physics or Biology, is a little more involved than the exit exams required by some other priesthoods.
I guess you can make of it what you will, but I thought some people around here might find the story encouraging.
"Sign me up!"
April 25th, 2009 #4
For what it's worth, here's the IPCC_Fourth_Assessment_Report. Apparently there was some controversy surrounding the validity of it. Edit: A quick search yields this petition thing. Edit, I'm playing link wars with myself, so here's a counter counter. When will it end? Can I decide on the issue when I run out of counters?
Last edited by Prometheus|ANJ; April 25th, 2009 at 01:33 AM.Jamen jag tror att han skäms, och har gömt sig. Vårt universum det är en av dom otaliga spermasatser som Herren i sin självhärliga ensamhet har runkat fram för å besudla intet.
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April 25th, 2009 #5
April 28th, 2009 #6
I agree with Blahm on this one. Carbon created global warming is not proven. Quite simply it is not. Period. There are far too many factors involved in climate change to pin-point the result, of such an event, to one particular thing. Please, consider the other possibilities, namely the two I am about to go through.
1.) Volcanism. Earth has been around for 4.4 billion years and in that time period the Earth has been exploding and shooting heavily condensed toxic gases in mass multitudes into our atmosphere. There were also trillions of tons of ash jettisoned into the stratosphere. Now, eventually all of the ash will build up if there are consecutive eruptions over at least several decades. The increase in the percent of ash in the atmosphere will cover enough room in the air to block out sun light, thus warm; thus the Earth will cool down. How is volcanism relevant then? Well, think about it.... How much ash did it take to cool down the Earth? A lot right? Yeah. Okay, so, how long did it take for the ash to accumulate so much that it finally began to produce noticeable cooling on Earth? Could of taken a few decades or less. Wow! So it would seem that over a course of several decades WE TOO could cause the Earth's climate to change!... But wait, we're forgetting something; the ash shot into the atmosphere was done very instantaneously and very abruptly in incriminates surpassing the amount of carbon dioxide we could shoot into the air in the same amount of time. And let's not forget about all of the toxic gases it releases into the atmosphere. The amount of time a chain of volcanoes can shoot their waste into the air exceeds our capabilities in doing the same - polluting.
2.) Solar Activity. With all of the technological advances of today we have managed to over come many problems and solve many questions that the human race has faced, yet there are still many things that we do not have answers for. Hell, most things we do not have answers for. But to tackle things that we have no way of answering and provide that evidence as a fact, with out the capabilities to prove it, is no way to make a claim. For millenniums, we as human race have been curious of the flame giant in the sky. It has for billions of years radiated light and warmth unto our planet and as well as other heavenly giants in the nighttime sky. Our ancestors have developed methods of determining how to chart the nighttime skies, the number of planets that are in our solar system and their moons which has led us to the advances in modern astronomy and cosmology. However, with all of our intelligence of our universe we fail at understanding how the universe, and all of its intricate works parts, work. Knowing that we do not thoroughly understand how gravity works (though there are theories), how the beginning of the universe began or how sun spots come to be. Point being, we understand hardly anything about why things that involve our universe, which affect us directly, even works. Yet we insist on making weather predictions by shooting into the dark, blind sighted. There are so many factors at play that it is impossible at this point in time to determine what exactly is going on. However, evidence showing a correlation for the past 150 YEARS shows us that the number of sun spots affects the temperature of the Earth: the fewer the spots, the cooler the Earth and vis versa. How long have we been polluting? How long have we kept record or pollution levels? How credible are the records? To blame such an event, climate change, on the baselessness of it being caused by pollution, when no hard supportive evidence is to be found, why is the possibility of solar activity not mentioned, rather, ignored?
There will be an answer to this question someday, but until then, the speculation of a man-made global warming is all hot air, no pun intended, until sufficient evidence is found. I leave my decision to be determined by the hands of progressive science.
April 28th, 2009 #7
I think with my previous comment I opened the door even more to the world of a debate. So in the good spirit of things, if a debate is carried out it's all played out for good sport.
April 28th, 2009 #8
Well, here's another Wikipedia link.
Edit: There have been a couple of surveys. The problem with the Oregon Petition is that it's not much of a survey since it it only asks for people with a specific opinion and ignores the rest.
Last edited by Prometheus|ANJ; April 28th, 2009 at 10:27 PM.Jamen jag tror att han skäms, och har gömt sig. Vårt universum det är en av dom otaliga spermasatser som Herren i sin självhärliga ensamhet har runkat fram för å besudla intet.
April 28th, 2009 #9
April 28th, 2009 #10Registered User
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Isn't there an island of trash in the Pacific that's bigger than Texas? That sounds like a problem; why don't we hear about that?
I've read that one major volcanic eruption emits more CO2 than all human activity in the history of our species. Microorganisms in the ocean is another source that dwarfs human output. Even if CO2 is warming the planet, I don't see how buying carbon credits is going to help. Plus, it's been proven that CO2 levels have been much higher in the past than they are today, and the world didn't end in a balmy tropical apocalypse.
Btw, doesn't Gore own a major stake in GIM, which is invested in carbon trading? That sounds fishy to me.
April 28th, 2009 #11
April 28th, 2009 #12
isn't scientific opinion an oxymoron? science is science specifically to prove measurable fact... when opinion enters into it all hell breaks loose. backing mere opinion with the weight and authority of science creates a dogmatic belief system... which in itself exists and propagates on the basis of the belief and not the measurable fact. This is essentially scientific religion, and it is bunk.
If you can't support all of what you are saying... "the planet is warming to a catastrophic degree and it is chiefly caused by the activity of humans"... then you need to go back and run some more experiments. and while you're doing that you can leave me, my incandescent lightbulbs, and my tax dollars and guilt-mongering "carbon footprint" out of the equation.
Last edited by Chingwa; April 28th, 2009 at 10:49 PM. Reason: spelling
April 28th, 2009 #13
If there is no source, then it's fine to question but you can't just write off things with viable sources because it's Wikipedia. Well, you can, but it would be silly.
"Astronomy offers an aesthetic indulgence not duplicated in any other field. This is not an academic or hypothetical attraction and should require no apologies, for the beauty to be found in the skies has been universally appreciated for unrecorded centuries."
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