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  1. #1
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    Disney copied...Disney!

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    That is not surprising at all, those animations were made by lost masters of the art. I doubt anyone in the future of mankind will reach that amount of pencil drawn traditional animation knowledge and craftmanship as the nine old men of Disney did.

    Everyone not in the industry might be very surprised how common this method of working is. This applies to films and games.

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    What's "not surprising" is that this fundamentally unartistic practice would be championed as smart procedure by the likes of modern animators, whose works serve no other purpose than to fulfill the ambitions of their corporate overseers to funnel children into theaters, theme parks and gift shops.

    Anybody who still cares about post-1950's Disney must poop lollipops and fart cotton candy.

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  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Sobriquet View Post
    What's "not surprising" is that this fundamentally unartistic practice would be championed as smart procedure by the likes of modern animators, whose works serve no other purpose than to fulfill the ambitions of their corporate overseers to funnel children into theaters, theme parks and gift shops.

    Anybody who still cares about post-1950's Disney must poop lollipops and fart cotton candy.
    Admittedly, there have been a few post-50's Disney movies....that have mostly been handled by Pixar.

    Seriously, I'm not a fan of Disney, but Wall-E was made of awesome.

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  7. #5
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    ha i didnt expect it to be that close! send this link to chandra!

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  8. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Sobriquet View Post
    What's "not surprising" is that this fundamentally unartistic practice
    What's 'unartistic' about it?
    They came up with some good bits of acting and reused it.

    It's not like they copy pasted. The characters were significantly different in each film and would had to have been redrawn from scratch.

    Anyway, very interesting finding, hehe.

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    It is no less artistic than you are, which makes it fine by you - and I feel no need to challenge your contentment I will not debate the point.

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    To place things into context, There wasn't a lot of faith in the animation unit from the suits during the mid-60s to mid 80s and the studio's budget and production times were cut. They had to make due with what they had and use the resources available. To make matters worse Walt had passed on during the production of The Jungle Book (mid or late 60s) and faith diminished further.

    A lot of us might not remember as kids because we were introduced to Disney during the height of the Disney Renaissance but the animation studio was in a bad way until Little Mermaid. After the success of the Little Mermaid was interest in feature animation renewed by the masses.

    I believe it was Woolie Reitherman who took over the animation wing during this time, one of the nine old men. He was also an army man, an accomplished fighter pilot. He went in with the intention of getting the job done and done as well as they could manage with what they had.

    Last edited by German-s; April 21st, 2009 at 12:47 PM.
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  12. #9
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    A. Sobriquet please, please go back to Deviant art and come back when either,

    A, you post art

    or

    B, youve lived in real world, have learnt how to interact with people, and have let your 'philosophical ideas' become grounded in reality rather than your imagination.


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  14. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Sobriquet View Post
    It is no less artistic than you are, which makes it fine by you - and I feel no need to challenge your contentment I will not debate the point.
    If this isn't a poor attempt at humour, maybe you should check out the last page of HunterKiller's sketchbook. Not exactly less than artistic.

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  16. #11
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    Anybody who has some moral problem with this should try animating 15 feet in one week that meets a professional standard (not to mention this happens while you're overworked and likely underpaid). That's somewhere between 120 and 240 drawings, depending on whether you're animating on ones or twos.

    Hell, just try doing 120 unrelated sketches in a week...

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  18. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Sobriquet View Post
    It is no less artistic than you are, which makes it fine by you - and I feel no need to challenge your contentment I will not debate the point.
    Oh please. STFU.

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  20. #13
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    Heck, I doubt a lot of junior animators of today would be able to trace as well as they did given the same source material and more time. I think it speaks well of their skill at reskinning the animations that very few ever noticed before. And speaking of being artsier than thou, René Magritte only had a handful of original ideas he remade over and over and over.... I still beleive he was very influencial to the artists coming after him with his clever and often ironic images.

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    Quote Originally Posted by German-s View Post
    To place things into context, There wasn't a lot of faith in the animation unit from the suits during the mid-60s to mid 80s and the studio's budget and production times were cut. They had to make due with what they had and use the resources available. To make matters worse Walt had passed on during the production of The Jungle Book and faith diminished further.

    A lot of us might not remember as kids because we were introduced to Disney during the height of the Disney Renaissance but the animation studio was in a bad way until Little Mermaid. After the success of the Little Mermaid was interest in feature animation renewed by the masses.

    I believe it was Woolie Reitherman who took over the animation wing during this time, one of the nine old men. He was also an army man, an accomplished fighter pilot. He went in with the intention of getting the job done and done as well as they could manage with what they had.
    Yeah, this really has more to do with cultural acceptance of cartoons as serious media, and the financing available for animation at the time, then a failure of artistry. Feature length animation essentially died in the late 60s early 70s. For all their high ideals about the quality of their work Disney was still a ultimately a business attempting to make a profit off their product. If that meant re-using some bits of acting from older movies that would take nearly 30 years for anyone to even notice...I say by all means. Compared to nearly EVERYTHING ELSE that was being done in animation in the late 60's and 70's even Disney copying Disney was better than ATROCIOUS TV animation of the day. That shit makes even DragonballZ seem well animated.

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    It's pretty interesting to see how they managed to present repetitive actions as fresh/ new. Very nicely done too. Those old wise men were awesome.

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  24. #16
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    It is no less artistic than you are, which makes it fine by you - and I feel no need to challenge your contentment
    wow, what a dick

    man, it's been sooo long since I've watched any of the classic Disney movies, I forgot just how incredible that animation was! I need to revisit them, recycled ideas or not...

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    heh...i had caught most of these as a child already
    as for great animation,i also highly recommend don bluth.

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  28. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavePalumbo View Post
    man, it's been sooo long since I've watched any of the classic Disney movies, I forgot just how incredible that animation was!
    Yeah, the grace of Snow White is spine tingling. And the humor of Jungle book is perfect. If those films ain't fine art, I don't know what is!

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  30. #19
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    I forgot how hot snow white was. That still stands to be beaten if I'm not mistaken. Her little animated dancing routine is so life like I have a fuzzy in my bElley!

    Eh, this type of stuff speeds up production and it works. Maybe it was the start of classic moments like when they make fun of the matrix or lord of the dance.

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    Actually farts smell nice because you are confident enough that it's your own. When entering the odd occurrence of fart confusion, realizing that you have enjoyed the fart of another, you might be changed forever.

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  32. #21
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    The old men of Disney have set the basics of animation, and they did some awesome work WITHOUT all the high technology we now have!

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  33. #22
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    Bouguereau reused a lot of his poses in different paintings. As did Reubens. And probably many, many more...

    Also, the Lion King was the best of the more modern Disney movies. But I also love that liney style they had at the time of the jungle book and robin hood.

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  35. #23
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    Yeah a couple years ago I pulled a savage jack move on my Grandma to reacquire the old VHS collection. I've heard people hate on the Sword in the Stone and Robin Hood as sub par, not to mention what was said about some of the stuff that followed, but I've never understood it. They're all great to me.

    I bought my girlfriend Sleeping Beauty and Pinocchio for her birthday and loved both of them, so I know I'm still a total Disney sap at heart.

    Snow White is do for a re-release, it hasn't been on Netflix or Blockbuster in years.

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  36. #24
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    Wow.

    Oh well.

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  37. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnifex View Post
    heh...i had caught most of these as a child already
    as for great animation,i also highly recommend don bluth.

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    Has anybody ever watched the youtubes of Glen Keane drawing? It's amazing. I'm sure the guy is somewhere making a great living, but it seems a shame that the animated features aren't around anymore for stuff like his to be on display.

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    On the last post the Guy talked about"Gulliver's Travels" from 1939 or 1940 and that it came out after Snow white yes but it wasn't Disney that was Fletcher Studio and at one time Disney and one of the people that worked for him had work for Fletcher.
    Both film came out the same month but a Week a part If i remember right and Disney wow only due to a better lay of the Theaters at the tome and ads.

    "Gulliver's Travels" f was much more Technically better and was liked more but was just a week late.. think of what would have happen if thing had gone the other way.. I picked up a restored DVD of Gulliver's Travels it is great and it came with a back ground of how it was made and what Fletcher did to get the look and feel .


    I was told by one of the Anime artist at one convention the Fletcher was more studied than Disney but Walt was respected for making animation great as well but both were known for their very Different styles.

    It is sad that they had to Cannibalize their own work but then again look at the Lion King it was ripped off from the work they did on the original animation the helped on for Japan's Jungle Emperor aka Kimba the white Lion here.. it was the first color anime and Katzenburg found in the Vault and took it for his own and even tore apart a scrip to write on it .

    Disney animators worked hard but after Walt died some just didn't feel the love and happiness that was in the studio when he was alive some just took retirement and went on and it can be seen in the later years . whe it went all Corporate and Suites and was suitng day care people for having a Micky on the wall even if Disney him self put it there i could see it was not a happy place.

    With the CG rise Disney found a new life but even now i wonder if there will just be lazy of do something from the heart as Walt did.

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  39. #27
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    The seventies was not a high point for Disney animation. If you look at that clip, you'll see that most of the shots are from Robin Hood, which was their first animated feature produced entirely after Walt Disney's death. Its budget was low, and there was a lot of pressure on the producers to prove that feature animation was still a viable part of the company. Under those circumstances, it isn't surprising that there would be attempts to cut corners, play it safe, and also attempt to recapture the past. Whatever else can be said about Eisner and Katzenberg, they have to be given credit for revitalizing the feature animation department. The run from the Little Mermaid to, say, Tarzan certainly stands alongside what was done while Walt was alive.


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  40. #28
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    I must be one of the few that really really loved Lilo and Stitch (the first one of course).

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  41. #29
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    you'll see that most of the shots are from Robin Hood
    That was the first thing I noticed about this... thanks for adding some explanation.

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  42. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    I must be one of the few that really really loved Lilo and Stitch (the first one of course).
    I thought that the watercolor(ish?) backgrounds were beautifull. Armand Serrano and Marcello Vignali did some really beautifull development work for this also.

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