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Thread: Concepts and sketches

  1. #31
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    I think on your latest post, it shows pretty much too different styles. On your left, a good realistic style with depth and potential, and at the right, a drawing that has no real great potential.

    Its all about linework, composition and anatomy mostly, and thats lacking in the right drawing.


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  2. #32
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    Good to see that piece colored, I guess all I can keep saying is to keep going and going and going! the first image in the last post is looking good too, good study.

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  3. #33
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    Thanks for your comments, guys. Did quite some work on the "Jester" piece before I considered it finished (In my "Fantasy art" thread if curious).

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  4. #34
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    Bought two plastic chars today to have as drawing models and references. Just tried drawing one of them - a running woman (15 min, HB pencil):

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  5. #35
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    Your woman running here looks good, but in my opinion it probably would have looked better if you would have taken less time on it. Working a little more hasty on something like this would probably make your line work a little more fluid giving her more of an appearance of running. Like I said though, it looks good, but maybe you just put a little more into it than what you should have. Good stuff here though, keep it up.

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  7. #36
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    Thanks a lot for your comment. Might try a short 5 min study soon as well. But I'm also hoping to get into the habit of doing longer, more detailed drawing sessions. Thanks for encouragement, I'll keep going. :-)

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  8. #37
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    Nice job on the figurine, especially for such a short drawing. I think you really should do a couple longer studies if you can manage it, they'll probably be really helpful. One thing, if you're doing a longer study of something, make sure you have good lighting on it that'll create nice shadows. Contrast is always nice.

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  9. #38
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    Mindbendermind,

    I like how your work is coming along. I like how you've got a good sense of form and function in your figure work. Your rendering indicates a knowledge of shapes, and how those lines - wrapping around the figures' forms - demonstrate that you have the beginnings of understanding of how dark values & shading can be portrayed with linework.

    You have a very strong collection of skills, and this is generally a good thing. However, when you get to the stage that you are now, where your skills are strong, and all you seem to be doing are these individual sketches of various things, it seems to me that it's probably time for you to (in addition to what you're now doing) add CONTEXT to your work!

    Meaning, I'd like to see you do more and more work that you have plans on doing professionally in your life. What is it you wish to do in your future? Whatever it is, I'd like to see you do more work that reflects that.

    But that's not really the focus I want to impress upon you. I would like to see you challenge yourself more by working on many different challenges in each individual piece. I'd like to see you not only work on your anatomy, I'd like to see you also work on how clothes are properly represented upon your characters. I also want to see how you place characters in various environments, which would show how you can handle composition & storytelling.

    In other words, I think you're ready to step up to a higher level. Much higher. If you are working towards a career as an illustrator/designer (are you?), then you must always, always, ALWAYS feel as if you're late getting to where you need to be, professionally. You already know what it feels like for your learning process to be slower than you want it to be.

    I'm saying that I see way too many people who have great talent, and whether or not they go to college to learn their craft, they quite often don't have that much-needed sense of urgency, regarding their artistic development. It's way too easy to get into learning at a casual pace, and not realize that even if you're learning at a high rate of speed, it can still take years to get where you're wanting to be, professionally.

    So, time to step things up a LOT. I don't ever want to discourage you to not do your daily sketching, or always exploring the drawings that I've seen you do in your postings. But, as I've said to other people here online, it's time for you to push yourself outside of your comfort zone.

    You need to begin to start doing fully finished, professional-level pieces on a regular basis.

    Scary, huh?

    It is. But if you're able to step up your game in the face of being overwhelmed by constantly doing newer and bolder things, and you survive it... THIS will go a very long way to make you a strong and successful professional. Remember, there's rising to the level of being a professional, then there's a lifetime of fighting to maintain that level, until you die or retire.

    You said previously that you were having troubles with your perspective. I have posted a quickie perspective tutorial on ConceptArt before. I hope it's helpful.

    Your life drawing samples are pretty good, and I agree with IMBass when he said you should do tons and tons more of those. But, as much as using Posemaniacs helps you, I think it would help you more to do quick sketches of real people as they stand and walk around. When you're at a public place (restaurant, park, whatever), and you see people walking around, try and capture their essence when they stay still. Likely they'll stay still only for a couple seconds, but that's the idea of this exercise! To be able to capture - IN INK - as much ACCURATE detail as you can! This is truly your 10-20 second poses challenge!

    Oh, and while you're doing that, include - IN INK - EVERY SINGLE DETAIL of the environment around the people (or animals, or whatever) you're sketching. Doing ink sketches of complicated environments is another way to help discipline yourself towards doing better perspective.

    The proportions on the hand you did in post #10 are a bit funky, but it does have a very strong sense of 'readability' and 'convincingness' to it. Lots of people draw things technically correct, but still never are able to make things look believable. The more you figure out the proportions, I think things will start to come together quite well.

    Some of your scribbly-looking linework is interesting, but I suggest you start making that linework more specific, more accurate as you go along. It's another level of discipline that helps you literally 'craft' your work more accurately, which will then result in your work being more believable.

    Also, you're drawing detail, but you're not really drawing detail. In post #24, I don't see all the detail of your youngest on on the couch. You stopped drawing the couch, and then you neglected to draw the complete environment around it. In the drawing with the ogre and the jester, you're faking your way through the drawing by depicting 'detail' by adding (sort of) paneling on the wall, and (sort of) drawing a throne (that you don't complete). Just because you put a lot of lines on a drawing, doesn't mean that they represent anything believable.

    The molding on the walls are dimentional, yes? Not in your drawing. There's dimension and layered detail when it comes to body armor, yes? Not in your drawing. You have these giant cross-hatched lines that only fill up space, and don't actually represent anything. This shows that you got lost in your drawing, and you wanted to fill up the space to make it look like you've done something. But you haven't, such as in how you avoided doing any actual detail in the throne that the ogre is sitting on.

    This is what the ink sketching of real life situations and environments help you with. Don't put a line down unless you know it actually means something. Stop guessing with your linework. This is why I suggest you do this in ink, because that forces you to make better decisions. With pencil, you can be as messy as you like, and you know you can always erase it. Ink sketching forces you to try doing things right the first time, every time.

    Post #34 looks sort of interesting at first glance, but I really have to complain that you're not DRAWING THINGS! You're hinting at things, at forms, at details of your anatomy. I want to see ACTUAL DRAWING of the hand's structure, ACTUAL DRAWING of the feet and toes, ACTUAL DRAWING of the details and folds of her dress, ACTUAL DRAWING of how her hair is growing & pulled back, ACTUAL DRAWING of the character of her hair, ACTUAL DRAWING of the structure of her face and neck... must I go on?

    I'm seeing a lot of linework in your work, and sometimes that linework seems to represent something.... almost. But not quite. I've yet to see you do a completed, comprehensive, fully detailed illustration, using all your talents and skills that you've so for represented in all these separate posts.

    I've yet to see any ACTUAL DRAWING. Something finished, complete, demonstrating YOUR VIEW of whatever small piece of the world you're trying to represent.

    Can you do it? I dare you to try.

    Good luck!

    Last edited by magnut; May 2nd, 2009 at 07:51 AM.
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  11. #39
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    Swampdigger: Thanks, I'm glad you like it. Am just about to post a 25 min master study (with the reference), let's see how you find that one.

    Magnut: Thanks a lot for taking the time to write such a thorough comment. A lot to digest, ponder, use and learn from. Will try following your suggestions - although I HATE drawing things that don't stand still for as long as I "need" them to ;-)

    Should probably mention two things in order to give you the complete picture of my drawing and where I'm going with it: 1) I will turn 32 this month, so it's probably "too late" for me to have art as an occupation - but I hope to have it as an enriching hobby for the rest of my life (and of course plan to complete SOME masterpieces that will live on for all eternity... ;-)); 2) At the moment I'm not allowed to put too much pressure on myself, since I'm unable to work due to some stressful family conditions. I am getting better and stronger though and will start working a few hours a day again after the summer (work as a teacher so there's no point in going back before August). That's one of the reasons I cling to that "comfort zone" as much as possible and try to avoid deadlines (hard when some art challenges online are SO inspiring).

    Anyway, thanks again and I'll certainly try to follow those advices. Really glad to see that you think I have some skills to build my future drawing practice on. Need all the encouragement and confiddence I can get at the moment. :-)

    Todays post is a 25 min master study of a detail from a painting by Van Eyck (pencil, HB). Will post the reference as well, although my doggie doesn't quite resemble the original one:

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    Last edited by Mindbendermind; May 2nd, 2009 at 11:52 AM.
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  12. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindbendermind View Post
    1) I will turn 32 this month, so it's probably "too late" for me to have art as an occupation - but I hope to have it as an enriching hobby for the rest of my life (and of course plan to complete SOME masterpieces that will live on for all eternity... ;-));
    No, no. Never say that. Good work is good work, no matter how old you are. So long as you can find people who don't age discriminate automatically, you can get work. This is a really good advantage to working remotely from home.

    Besides, amazing people such as Mad Magazine's Jack Davis is still working into his 80's. Good work is good work, and so long as it's good, someone will want it. Don't give yourself bullshit arbitrary time limits to you starting any kind of artistic career.

    It is true that it can be an enriching hobby for you. Hey, whatever keeps you from going on a killing spree...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mindbendermind View Post
    2) At the moment I'm not allowed to put too much pressure on myself, since I'm unable to work due to some stressful family conditions. I am getting better and stronger though and will start working a few hours a day again after the summer (work as a teacher so there's no point in going back before August). That's one of the reasons I cling to that "comfort zone" as much as possible and try to avoid deadlines (hard when some art challenges online are SO inspiring).
    And, we're back to you being enriched so you don't commit mass homicide.

    With every job - illustrating is no different - you're always having to deal with the circus of life, keeping 1,000 plates spinning all the time while also having to juggle automobiles, bowling balls & flaming cats, with never-ending annoying music playing in the background.

    You do what you can. When things work out, and you feel a wave of momentum happening from it, then you do what you can to ride that wave for as long as you can.

    Don't ever let anyone define how you must do this, or how you must do that. Use everything you see and observe as a guideline, and though you should emulate others' methodologies, you do that only to the point where you get your 'sea legs', and you start feeling confident enough to take your own approach.

    Don't compromise your health, but you still should push yourself a bit. Always reach beyond what you've done before, even if it's a small reach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mindbendermind View Post
    Need all the encouragement and confiddence I can get at the moment. :-)
    Well, you certainly have the encouragement from me. The confidence comes from your consistent efforts, looking behind you every six months to realize just how far the quality of your work has grown.

    Good luck!

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  14. #41
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    Thanks a lot again. You're right, the change in quality should be apparent from a 6-month perspective, not one month to the next (easily forgotten). Sometimes it's just SOO frustrating not being able to just draw or paint that character or epic landscape I see before me.

    As if the beautiful picture inside is somehow distorted along the way and comes out as something...less satisfying.

    Anyway, I'm back into ink practice (shouldn't I do SOME pencil work from time to time?) and drew some gestures of my children. Also joining the Spartan Training Camp again (50 gestures + optional study every week) here at CA.

    Also ordered my first drawing tablet (a simple bamboo fun A6 for starters) yesterday, so soon I'll be able to draw and paint digitally "for real". Can't wait! :-)

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  15. #42
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    Latest WiP for a comic book heroine invented for the May challenge at IFX. No refs whatsoever so far. Wanted to experiment with motion and energy in a different way than on my last challenge piece. Don't know if I'll finish it, had fun doing it so far.

    Her name is of course Barbarianne:

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    Last edited by Mindbendermind; May 10th, 2009 at 12:20 PM.
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  16. #43
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    nice start, you have far more patience than me... in the beginning (well, I'm still a totally beginner, but I drew now and then a few years before too), I drew quick faces and practically nothing more. I was (am) too much a coward but if I tried to do something "too difficult for me", the results were always surprisingly better than I thought they will be...
    you do studies, old masters copies, stuff from imagination... it's good
    I think I can't say much at this point, keep drawing

    and I don't think it's too late... (I'm 32, by the way and I hope I can use my art, when it will deserve this label, in my work - staying as a programmer. I do some design work anyway)

    sorry for my not good enough English and if I write too much about myself...

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  18. #44
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    Thanks for the encouraging words and taking time to stop by :-)

    Concerning our age issue (I'm very soon 32 as well) you should take a look at Magnut's reply in post #40 above.

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    Finished class 1 in an online "Drawing basics" course I'm following. (Based on "How to draw what you see" (De Reyna) - a great book that I got today. :-)

    Assignment was to draw from a reference picture of a chair and shade it using only straight lines. Really challenging assignment that ended up like this:

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  20. #46
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    Glad to see you doing studies like the chair. Some things to keep in mind:

    Chairs are tricky, but one thing that may help is to draw a light box and then draw the chair into it. Doing it that way will help to keep things from getting skewed. It just gives you something to work into.

    Nice attempt on the shading with only straight lines. But one thing you should think about is the direction of your lines. You're lines should be suggesting the planes of the wall and the form of the chair. Right now you've just got lines laid flat on. That's the reason the corner of the walls isn't reading right. Your hatching isn't in perspective so it takes the wall out of perspective. It's not always a bad thing to have lines that don't follow form. but in my experience it usually only works if the majority of your lines are in the same direction.

    Good luck and keep doing the exercises in the book. they'll probably be helpful.

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  21. #47
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    Thanks a lot for your instructive comments. The book is great - I have already begun "blocking in" things more in geometrical shapes as I draw them.

    Find it a bit tricky to decide the direction of the lines - started out with all lines in one direction, then I realized I should follow the direction of the wall and it all ended up...in a slightly messy in-between ;-)

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  22. #48
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    Part of a hand study (my hand, HB pencil) I did for the STC.

    Added a quick, freer sketch. Trying to break the habit of ONLY drawing from observation.

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    Last edited by Mindbendermind; May 18th, 2009 at 02:44 PM.
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  23. #49
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    Continued with a no ref tree sketch I started drawing the other day:

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  24. #50
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    Nice stuff. Always good to work from imagination, it gives a really good idea of what your weaknesses are. Now you should draw a tree from observation and then try to do another tree drawing from memory. Keep it up.

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  26. #51
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    Thanks for comment and advices - I'll do my best.

    Kept working on my forest image today. Inspired by my figure studies I decided to add a woman to it:

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  28. #53
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    Kept fiddling with the forest piece. Believe this is getting really close to a final version:

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  29. #54
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    Hey man. As far as I can see you seem to approaching this a little bluntly. You seem to have a great deal of good ideas swirling around in your head, but you lack the skills to get them down on paper, or PS doc. if you will. I would advise you to do studies instead of all these pieces, if you wanna learn that is. Nothing wrong in indulging in these all out things from time to time, but you learn very little from them.

    Get a hold of an anatomy book, like Hogarth, and start studying, that is the only way to go about it. Other books, like Loomis are also good for that sort of thing. Get busy mate, you can do it

    -E

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  31. #55
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    Thanks for encouragement. My main focus is actually on studying the basics. Take a look in my "Drawing basics" thread (found in sig) if you want to see exactly how and where. These kind of pieces are more for fun and trying out what I've learned so far. :-)

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    Latest WiP version of the Barbarianne image.

    EDIT: And a master study from a painting of Van Gogh that I finished today (pencil, HB)

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    Last edited by Mindbendermind; May 30th, 2009 at 03:08 PM. Reason: added image
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    A quick sketch started last night. No ref drawing of character/environment. Really enjoy doing this kind of images. (Pencil, HB)

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    I really like the drawing in post #51

    I like it that you keep experimenting, but I would advice to try not to go too fast. I mean, I think it is better if you first spend all your time on, for example, character design, and after that environment design, colouring, etc.

    Because if you try to do it all at once, you got more chance to fail and that could be demotivating.

    However, you got to do what you find most fun first, and don't worry too much about the quality yet. Quality comes with practise and motivation.

    As long as you keep exploring and keep interest in certain styles or things, you will get there I think.

    And btw, Im dont really agree with Mischeviouslittleelf. Ofcourse, anatomy studies are important, but you have to be aware that art is art. And art grows out of ideas, not anatomy knownledge. My advice would be, to take an older drawing you made, that's totally off, anatomically wise for example, and keep trying to fix it till it looks good. This way you learn it by your own hand, what you did wrong in the past.


    Keep it coming!

    Last edited by DeJakhalz; June 2nd, 2009 at 09:02 PM.

    Thanks for dropping by!
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  36. #59
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    Thanks a lot for encouragement and all great advices. Will try to keep them in mind as I proceed :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swampdigger View Post

    One thing that you could try with your kids is to treat them like the 10 sec posemaniacs. Just really quick sketches to try to capture the movement or pose. Then if they decide to stay in that position you could always carry it further.
    This is a really important advice, this will train your eyes to look at the key features, rather than detail. This will improve your eyes in looking in a different way, it will improve your linework, feeling for poses etc

    It's a really hard drawing study though, Im curious what the results will be.


    Thanks for dropping by!
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