Unacceptable behaviour in the lounge. Please vote. - Page 2
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View Poll Results: Should we ban Madster and dance on her grave?

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Thread: Unacceptable behaviour in the lounge. Please vote.

  1. #31
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    I started taking art seriously at 25. *Edit, just thought about it, it was 27.* Thunderdome?

    You haven't posted art in four years from what we could work out. I think it's time you prove your chops round here.

     

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    Gunner Romantic. I stated she started at 15. Joy Ang I remember her doing fantastic work at 14.

    But yes, I already stated the age thing was not a valid response, but people weren't saying "Well no I disagree since artists start at any age" There's also the fact I pointed to the Realities of art School ...you'll notice Manley and Elwell had different but similar experiences. Manley stating you don't need to attend art school, Elwell telling you it's good if you put work into it (and both actually agreeing on that point).

    See, if this was the discussion instead of the attacks you guys made...that might have been a much more productive post.

    I still don't agree with madster's recent reply entirely but I don't straight out see how everything madster said was terrible advice except for a few points, that people could debate.

    Excuse me? I'm pretty sure I made no attacks. So, I'd appreciate it if you'd re-read my posts. I can vehemently disagree with someone without name-calling, thank you very much.

    Also, I'd say that while you made a valid point (re: Gunnar Romantic etc. regarded ages), I would definitely say that is a rare occasion. Most places even require you to be 18 before they even hire you.

    -D

     

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanE View Post
    Why don't all of you shut up and give Aaron some GOOD, CONSTRUCTIVE advice instead of arguing in here?

    Madster was out of line. Any out of line comments that hit her in return are pretty much deserved/expected.

    GIVE THE KID A HAND.

    I wanted to but the thread got closed as I was typing....

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  6. #34
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    Madster gave bad advice in a cruel uncaring way, whats new.

     

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    The kid in question still posts studies in his scetchbook even after gtting tht response from madster. Didn't seem to affect him _that_ much.

     

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    So her argument here is that art is only important if fiscally viable?

    Last edited by sourgasm; March 13th, 2009 at 07:16 PM.
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty View Post
    Excuse me? I'm pretty sure I made no attacks. So, I'd appreciate it if you'd re-read my posts.
    -D
    Read what you quoted again please. I said "but people" that doesn't necessarily include you.

     

  13. #38
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    Hey Madster, so you know most of the people who responded to you, are made out of fucking titanium, and work night and day to get better.

    So to me, you sound like a someone who lives in a fantasy world, pretending that you know something about art. You aren't fuckin qualified at all to give anybody any advice, and probably not even yourself, considering how your art looks. Get a clue, have a little bit more humility, and work hard yourself before you start telling others how fuckin hard it is.

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  15. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by shannanigan View Post
    I wanted to but the thread got closed as I was typing....
    Sorry, I closed it because it was more trolling than discussing. I'll be happy to open it up again if more people like you stood up

     

  16. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    Read what you quoted again please. I said "but people" that doesn't necessarily include you.
    Yes, but you were quoting and addressing me, so I naturally included myself. I apologize for the misunderstanding, though.

    -D

     

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  18. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icon View Post
    ou aren't fuckin qualified at all to give anybody any advice, and probably not even yourself, considering how your art looks. Get a clue, have a little bit more humility, and work hard yourself before you start telling others how fuckin hard it is.

    Can I say I absolutely hate that argument? There are people of many skill levels that have given good advice. So only good artists need to post advice and critiques now?

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by madster View Post
    16 is OLD in today's world to be JUST STARTING on art as a CAREER, unless your NATURAL TALENT is so outstanding that you can overcome the lack of training up until this point. Sorry, boys and girls, that level of talent is simply not there in this instance.
    So let's think about this, using your logic of course, and see what you just really said.

    If at 16, you attempt to draw, and cannot produce Art-God quality work, then you have no talent? Talent just turns on the second you try it for the first time? How can you be so sure that within 6 months this kid won't be better than you? How can you measure potential and rate of progress with age in ONE specific point in time when potential, talent, progress, and learning as INFINITE processes that evolve exponentially within the brain and body over periods of existence and trial?

    So, obviously since you're an artist now, that means that at the LATEST age of 16, you had an enormous and incredible talent that allowed you to be an artist for X amount of years until the present? Or was it 15 years old? 12? 4? Were you in the womb having debates with yourself over composition and colour theory?

    You do realize that the reason we PHYSICALLY learn art is because our BODIES are not nearly as advanced as our minds and imaginations? Do you have any idea what's going on in Aaron's HEAD that he is trying to learn to convey in the real world through art?

    No.

    GIVE THE KID SOME GOOD ADVICE ALREADY! Shame the thread got closed, Aaron's the one getting screwed out of that now, not anyone else.

    I encourage anyone with WORTHWHILE, LOGICAL, FAIR, AND POSITIVE advice to send him a Private Message and give him a push in the right direction because this is definitely a kick in the wrong one...

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    Last edited by Sorknes; March 13th, 2009 at 07:53 PM.
    "The fact that no one understands you doesn't make you an artist"

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  23. #44
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    arshes: yeah. I agree with you but only if they give good advice. she didn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Icon View Post
    Hey Madster, so you know most of the people who responded to you, are made out of fucking titanium, and work night and day to get better.
    *is made of Unobtainium*

    Only the heart intrinsically noble can succeed...
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  26. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty View Post
    Excuse me? I'm pretty sure I made no attacks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty View Post
    I'm truly sorry that you are so bitter.
    And so horribly, horribly wrong.

    .....

     

  27. #47
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    WHAT'S UP WITH ALL THE CAPS AND BOLD LETTERS IN THIS THREAD

     

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  29. #48
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    I'm not going to comment on the argument cos, well, I'm not that bothered, but I think I need to comment on this

    16 is a bit late to "decide" upon Art as a career...
    That's nonsense and it's not supported by any evidence whatsoever. When I was 34 I couldn't draw a fraction as well as that 16 year old kid. Are you going to tell me I can't make a career out of it?

     

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  31. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty C View Post
    I started taking art seriously at 25. *Edit, just thought about it, it was 27.* Thunderdome?

    I didn't until I was about 25 either... in fact this is what I was going to post in the other thread.... I was 21 years old in 1993... and 5 years later.
    Perfect, no. Improvement... definitely. I did it by drawing, drawing and more drawing. You should see the crap I was cranking out at 16...
    Aaron is already leaps and bounds better than I was!! And what do I do now... I design footwear and textiles, been doing that for almost 15 years...
    started between those two shitty drawings. Someone saw the potential I had and took a chance. So to say someone at 16 should give up is ridiculous.

    I didn't go to college so I can't give advice on that... but I will say that I'm also old enough to be Aaron's mother too and I would NEVER have said such nasty things to him.
    Age doesn't automatically equal wisdom. So keep drawing Aaron.... don't let all this get you down!!

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  34. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by D.Labruyere View Post
    .....
    Observing someone's bitterness (which should be apparent with her post) is an attack? Likewise, saying she is wrong (which merely expresses my obvious disagreement) is as well?

    Well, then guilty as charged I guess. My definition is a little different than yours.

     

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    Personally I don't care about peoples life views, they can think what they want, but I do think that members of the community have the right to stand up for the ideals of this forum...inspiration, education, and motivation.

     

  36. #53
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    I think.. all other comments are unnecessary and should be taken to the highest court of art.

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    Look around you. The economy of the ENTIRE WORLD is struggling mightily. "They" say that possibly 40% of the WORLD's wealth has simply been destroyed.
    this is true Aaron, you should highly consider a career that will pay for your art, it doesn't have to be an art career as mad mentioned. things right now are so bad economically, that to go into debt for a school that may or may not land you a good job once you graduate, is a bad choice. This site provides so much help and information that for the time being I would hunker down and study from here. Get a mentor and set up a schedule to where you practice art as if you were attending school.
    It won't be fixed overnight, and if you think it's hard to make a living as an artist NOW, just think about the world in a year or so. Sorry, children, but the harsh reality of it is that mediocre little drawings becuase that's what you like to do, will NOT get you a well-paying job in today's, and most likely tomorrow's job market. People with DECADES of experience and Master's Degrees are delivering pizzas, okay?
    this is sadly also true, a degree will not land you the dream job you want, only it will leave you with a huge debt to pay for, for years to come.

    I
    f a cold dash of honest reality is "destroying dreams," then you are so far out in la-la fantasy land that you need it. Don't even think that you can excuse your vengeful little attitude by claiming to be defending someone else. Artists are not the fragile little spirits you believe. The BEST artists are the ones that have carbon-fibre cores and armor-plated skin. Only WhinyBabies (I should trademark that) get SO offended and SO hurt that they then have to resort to vulgar namecalling, and truly sad little threads like this one. Of course, you're not the first, and most likely, won't be the last...You're just another in a long line of overly-sensitive "arteests," who believe the world is just holding it's breath awaiting your next poorly composed, badly value rendered creation...
    Mad I understand your frustrations with the younger generations, but it would be better to be encouraging hard practice than to throw a dash of ice water on some ones dreams.... but if your intention was to motivate that's another story. I have often know of people who saying these things, do it because they are telling the OP to prove them wrong.

    (Any my appreciative thanks to the intelligent among you who have attempted to enlighten the next generation WBs...Although I think it futile, once an oversensitive whiner, usually forever the same...)
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  39. #55
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    Calling someone bitter because you think her views are to pessimistic for your likings is something I would deffinately call an attack yes. Saying someone is wrong because he or she is wrong is something totally different and has absolutely nothing to do with this.

    edit: this should be a few posts higher, but my typing skills are to slow

     

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    It's the cold honest truth that the TC might not be up to par now but like I said, Aaron doesn't need to listen. I had a friend whose friend in Taiwan loved drawing. She would draw constantly and make her own comics. Her friend's mother, thinking art a big waste of time and fiscally unsound, constantly and inevitably tossed most of her hard work into the trash and wanted her to take up a better job. Instead of bucking into the family pressure, her friend is now quite a young starting success in Taiwan by getting her stuff published. She proved her mother wrong and from the last I heard, her mother no longer dumps her sketches and finished works into the garbage.

    For myself, I also have family inquiring, "What do you want to do by drawing all of this?" My dad calls the stuff I draw "boring". To them, talent is a must-have or else you just ain't got it. How do I show them that that's not true? I get working and I get drawing and no matter what self-doubts or family questions come flying at me (like the time I told my mom I wanted to take up life drawing again and she told me to pick a better set of classes, like Excel so that I can get a better salaried full-time job), I grit my teeth and continue.

    In the end, it's up to you. If people can brave the tearing down they get at art schools and continue, so can many others. You have to think, "I know I can. I know I will." In the end, Aaron will be doing it for himself, not for Madster. If Madster says no, he says yes. Self-determination makes up for a lot.

     

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  42. #57
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    I will be 16 next week and I've done less than ten paying art commissions in my life... According to this thread I might as well quit.

     

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    Just because an economy is bad now doesn't mean you won't find work, and that there won't be work in the future. Seriously, I JUST got out of school at almost 29, only realizing i wanted to paint and do concept stuff 3 years ago, and I'm working freelance already and making absolute bank.

    SOOOOO.... don't tell me the economy is bad and use it as an excuse to butcher someones dreams. The REALITY is, work is out there, and if your good enough, you'll get it. And who knows what the future will hold for the world's economy.

    So, that being said... Madster, crawl back into that pit of negativity you slithered out of and close the door on your way back in.

     

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  46. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by D.Labruyere View Post
    Calling someone bitter because you think her views are to pessimistic for your likings is something I would deffinately call an attack yes. Saying someone is wrong because he or she is wrong is something totally different and has absolutely nothing to do with this.

    edit: this should be a few posts higher, but my typing skills are to slow
    Okay, well I appreciate your opinion.
    I disagree, though. I usually consider attacks to have name-calling or some other method of insulting the person...which at no point did I do (I don't consider calling someone "bitter" an insult in the slightest. It's like calling someone "angry". It's an observation more than anything).

    -D

     

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    i know it hasn't been bad bad that long, but i'm really getting tired of hearing the "in bad times like these" mentality bile spewed out with so much contempt.

    16 is the very beginning of the beginning and that's really no way to talk to a kid who's struggling with his dream. not everyone has the opportunity or the fostering environment on their side. so what if someone tries to make a career out of doing something they love and they don't succeed? isn't that better than being severely compromised and doing something you are less than passionate about?

    and i'm not trying to gang gang on said rabbit thread but it is heartbreaking to see such harmfully deriding and disparaging bitterness after an innocent plea for help.

     

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