lineart and weening off of it.... esp in concept art
Ive noticed that lineart in concept art is near non existent... as an artist, is the natural progression of an artist is to ween off of the crutch that is lineart?
are there even any concept artist that do lineart plus color of course.. accept for maybe joe mad in america?
I think in korea or asia in general its more acceptable.. like hyung tae kim.. like this one:
is it possible to make it as a concept artist with lineart unless ur a comic artist super star?
in america at least the concept art level is very high... at least the ones ive seen.. and i saw some vids where they just block in all the shapes with siliouettes and start painting very fast... without the need for any lineart. is this how good a concept artist have to be to get a job as a concept artist??
would a company laugh their ass off looking at drawings that rely heavily on the black lineart... i personally would love to stick to lineart.. but if thats not what their looking for then im wasting my time.
i hope this thread makes sense..
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The point of much of the full colour concept art is to show what the game will look (feel) like. Since most of the modern games aren't rendered in 2D, line art -- coloured or not -- doesn't serve. Flash and other 2D games require line art concept work, when they actually require it.
There's a great deal of work in the concept process that is line art; initial sketches, orthos, storyboards. This stuff isn't as sexy as the full colour, often painterly work. If you're okay not doing the colour concept work there's still a large part of the process you can engage in.
Put together a kick-ass portfolio of line art conceptual work and you'll get hired to do line-based work, but you won't get to do the sexy colour stuff.
Last edited by rpace; March 13th, 2009 at 05:33 PM.
Reason: shouldn't type when on the phone
I can't answer your question specifically, because I am not a concept artist. But I still felt the need to respond to something you said:
I don't think any art is a waste of time. I think the key is to just always be open to where your art will take you. For example, when I was a teenager, I wanted to draw comic books....desperately. One thing led to another and I found out I had an even stronger desire to do sculpting and make-up effects for movies. Between those two, I ended up going to art school focused on one thing or another, but in the end I became a video game artist.
i personally would love to stick to lineart.. but if thats not what their looking for then im wasting my time.
The point is, I didn't get bound by one specific type of artistic industry (in your case, concept art), but I still ended up in an artistic field. My interest in comic books and sculpting has made me a well-rounded artist (in my opinion of course), so I don't consider any of my past choices to be a "waste of time".
It's one thing to be dedicated to a specific field, but don't change what you enjoy just to achieve it. Just do your thing, try other things as you become interested, and you might be surprised where you end up. In fact, now I couldn't imagine doing comic book art. It's still awesome and I love comic art, but I found I personally do not enjoy creating sequential art. Times change.
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People understandably have a lot of respect for concept artists who are great painters. However, my experience working in-house for game companies is that line art is just as good, perhaps even better, because it's usually faster and clearer what you're trying to convey. Fast iterations and variations of a basic concept are what you need to be able to do. If you can do that in "paint", that's A+ awesome (and more likely to make it into print in some gaming mag) but it is not necessary. The issue is the quality of the design, and the speed and clarity with which it is conveyed.
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I've always liked Hyung Tae Kim's stuff despite some of the weird issues with anatomy that goes on in his work. The line work is obviously there, but there is variation in line thickness which helps prevent it from being over-powering and completely flattening the work...which is how it should be.
As digital becomes a more prominent working method, it becomes easier to hide linework. If you look at the concept art for Fallout 3 it has a really sketchy style, much of which I think was done traditionally. (At least I assume that's why Adam still had a big box of prismacolor markers XD)
I believe in Richard Shcmid's book he argues that almost any painting first starts with lines to some degree. It sounds like the vid's your talking about is what Loomis would call, "The Soft Approach", where you start with tone and work your way to edges which represent lines. I think you'd have to have reference material all worked out beforehand for this approach.
The point is, it sounds like your not intrested and confused by "tone". Some beginners refer to as "shading". To help understand it better, read Loomis' section on Tone. Most artist don't ween off of line art and instead just start working with some line art and then work in the tones. Look at most tutorials and they'll show the progression of thumbnails and roughs to tight drawings as starting off with line art usually in each step (maybe not thumbnails so much for most).
But if you think that's hard, wait till you get to color.
Comparing lineart to blocking in silhouettes is comparing apples to bananas - They serve completely different purposes.
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I think apples and bananas serve the same purpose.
Originally Posted by HunterKiller_
On line art, most of the industrial-designs I saw are based on lines and ID is AFAIK an integral part of the proces. Hell, did you even look at the concept-threads in the FF-section? I mean the one from Turok and such, not the portfolio, high-polished stuff. Lot's of line-scetches in there.
On the other hand, if you talk about polishing to illustration-quality for promotion and stuff, you're talking about illustration and not concept-art imo.
riceface, thank you for introducing me to Hyung Tae Kim. Inspiring stuff!
so your saying i dont have to ween off of my lineart....
the thing is... the best lineart arts + colored at best.. just looks likea high end comic book art...
but when u do that speed painting thing that alot of concept artist seem to know how to do.. u get sweeping landscapes, scale.. composition.. looks like a freakin painting. esp from far away. it will probably be really impressive to companies.. another thing is, with this technique.. people finish the drawing pretty dam fast...
but im pretty sure people who can do this.. are just as good as doing lineart work.. when i say lineart i mean fully colored but with the black lines...
am i sorta limited in my arsenal of art.. to prospective employers.
Plenty of concept artists still retain line in their works. Most of the folks who teach at Concept Design Academy lean towards keeping it. Here are a few samples:
Of course, let's not forget the master:
I don't think relying on line art is a crutch at all. It's merely another variation of the two main ways of drawing: like a draftsman (line) or a painter (mass). People tend to gravitate towards one direction or another, and the best learn how to do both.
Last edited by sfa; March 14th, 2009 at 04:04 AM.
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Originally Posted by riceface
Why the hell do you put so much effort into comparing different types of art?
First it was western vs. eastern art, then it was 2D vs. 3D and now lineart vs. non-lineart. What's next? Pencils vs. erasers??
You need to get one point nailed in your head.
Art is subjective. You may think one thing is greatest thing in the world, the next guy might hate it.
There's no such thing as the 'best medium' or 'best type of art'.
Stop wasting your energy with these pointless comparisons and do what you want to do.
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I'm kind of curious as to why you think line art would be considered a "crutch" in the first place. There are certainly amateur artists who focus so much describing form via contour that they neglect form via value...thus their line art looks full of potential until they attempt to paint it. I have the opposite problem in that I understand form via value much more easily. If you're strong in understanding both however they co-exist just fine.
Originally Posted by riceface
In traditional mediums, yes it would be much easier to go with the "soft approach" if good references are available. (All art is easier with good reference available) In digital painting however you can erase, paint lighter tones over darker tones, etc which means less strict reliance on reference for the same approach.
Originally Posted by Bowlin
ween /win/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ween]
–verb (used with object), verb (used without object) Archaic.
1. to think; suppose.
2. to expect, hope, or intend.
3. Gene & Dean Ween, kicking out the fuckin' jams.
wane /weɪn/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [weyn]
verb, waned, wan⋅ing, noun
–verb (used without object)
1. to decrease in strength, intensity,
2. to decline in power, importance, prosperity,
3. to draw to a close; approach an end.
4. (of the moon) to decrease periodically in the extent of its illuminated portion after the full moon.
5. the word riceface keeps meaning to say.
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wean /win/ –verb (used with object)
1. to accustom (a child or young animal) to food other than its mother's milk; cause to lose the need to suckle or turn to the mother for food.
2. to withdraw (a person, the affections, one's dependency, etc.) from some object, habit, form of enjoyment, or the like: The need to reduce had weaned us from rich desserts.
3. The actual word I assume riceface was looking for and Grief forgot.
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